Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating

[chloepoco]

Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.

Boggles my mind that anyone thinks that Satoko lacks musicality!

 

[Interspectator]

Disclamer: This is a totally personal opinion on style.
Satoko has great musicality, posture, finesse and poise. Toes and fingers pointed perfectly. But there is another step past that and it is abandon. Where you train and train and your body knows what to do so you don't have to think about it any more. Where your body line can be 'not perfect' so that when you stretch at the right time in the music it is a revelation. Some performers have a natural abandon when they skate, and have to learn finesse afterwards. Satoko is also getting there. Her SP last year showed areas where she 'let it rip' so to speak. The more she does that, the better her skating will look to the audience.

 

[Skater Boy]

Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.

I am not sure any skater with the current system is all that naturally musical. There are some performers for sure, some actors but not too many who truly feel the music that it creates life out of oneself. Oksana Baiul would be a rare example of true musicality. Kwan to a point but she was more learned as was Brian boitano. Miyahara is very graceful and has that "traditonal" feminine, lady like look such as Yamaguchi, Kim, Asada, Kostner but I am not sure that means she is musical. She has to deal with urs to be competitive with the the Americans, Russians and Kostner. She can do it. She does not seem nearly so vulnerable to puberty as the Russians and far more consistent than the Americans or Kostner. Her performance levels are fine; not everyone is out in your face like Hanyu and Daisuke T. or playful like Fernandes and Witt or skates with blazing speed and edges like Chan or 2014 Adelina. She has a wonderful delicate, fluid, graceful, lyrical quality.

 

[ioanna]

Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.

The judges placed Radionova below Miyahara at Worlds so they actually weren't impressed by Radionova's performance. TAT must think musicality is one dimensional, because she's projecting what she thinks is musicality (over-the-topness most of the time) onto her.

But it's ok to disagree, you can think Miyahara is forgettable and I can think Gold (even when she's on she's concentrating so hard on her jumps she forgets to perform) or Radionova (her programs last season were so terrible I can't remember a single thing other than thinking she could have had anything playing in the background, the rushing and flailing would have been the same) are forgettable and more like examples of how not to perform your program.

 

[Marin]

Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.

Can you provide a link where TAT says this about Satoko? i think I have watched satoko's all videos with her commentaries last season....I might missed it..

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I know. I meant other people are following your example now.

Oh my god, people are making slo-mo videos without any from of negative or offensive comment or even criticism, that everyone is free to watch and come up with they're own opinion. How horrible and unfair. Please, somebody stop them :sarcasm:

I get that the continuous negative comments about Satoko's jumps are annoying, but it doesn't mean they're unfair or unwarranted. And as long as she is actively skating, it's not "beating a dead horse". Discussing results from competitions years ago is beating a dead horse, Satoko is going to be in competitions and get her jumps called and scored. Not a dead horse.

 

[ioanna]

Oh my god, people are making slo-mo videos without any from of negative or offensive comment or even criticism, that everyone is free to watch and come up with they're own opinion. How horrible and unfair. Please, somebody stop them :sarcasm:

Oh please stop putting words in my mouth.

I get that the continuous negative comments about Satoko's jumps are annoying, but it doesn't mean they're unfair or unwarranted. And as long as she is actively skating, it's not "beating a dead horse".

Did I say they're unfair or unwarranted? I said it's very hard for her to suddenly jump higher all things considered. People are free to criticize her jumps all they want except at least half of the comments are borderline offensive. That's beating a dead horse.

 

[moriel]

The judges placed Radionova below Miyahara at Worlds so they actually weren't impressed by Radionova's performance. TAT must think musicality is one dimensional, because she's projecting what she thinks is musicality (over-the-topness most of the time) onto her.

But it's ok to disagree, you can think Miyahara is forgettable and I can think Gold (even when she's on she's concentrating so hard on her jumps she forgets to perform) or Radionova (her programs last season were so terrible I can't remember a single thing other than thinking she could have had anything playing in the background, the rushing and flailing would have been the same) are forgettable and more like examples of how not to perform your program.

As for musicality, TAT thinks that Satoko's free program totally lacks accents matching the music, for example. Which I cannot disagree.

It was said during one of the free skates.

 

[Tyranid]

Satoko Miyahara is such a conundrum in terms of jumps because she, as no other skater, combines a necessary amount of pre-rotation with acceptable 1/4 turn underrotation to get that perfect, minimal amount air rotation to not get dinged on her jump. In the US Classic, most of her her jumps other than the 2A was 1/4 turn UR'ed along with some PR (pre-rotation). The obvious UR's (3Lz-3T< in the SP and the 3F in the FS) were called. The tech panel needs to be more strict on her jumps because of the exess of 1/4 UR and PR. Skaters usually get the "benefit of the doubt" when it comes to UR (unless you are Anastasia Galustyan at 2016 Euros) but Miyahara gets too much benefit of that doubt with many of her triples not being even 2.25 revolutions in the air.

edit: and YES she gets underscored in PCS. Could it be possible that the PCS underscoring is there to balance out her arguably high jump TES besause her jumping seems to exploit the system?

 

[ioanna]

As long as Shoma Uno's quad flip was ratified by the ISU and he is recognized as the first skater to land it in competition then why should Miyahara's PR be punished? I'm not saying it's right but she shouldn't be singled out. Should all of her jumps get UR calls because of the excess of 1/4? I don't know. But I've never seen her jumps getting +2 or +3 GOE across the board like other skaters. Most of them get 0 and some +1. I'm pretty sure her PCS also suffer the consequences of her jumps. How much more stricter should they be with her?

 

[moriel]

As long as Shoma Uno's quad flip was ratified by the ISU and he is recognized as the first skater to land it in competition then why should Miyahara's PR be punished? I'm not saying it's right but she shouldn't be singled out. Should all of her jumps get UR calls because of the excess of 1/4? I don't know. But I've never seen her jumps getting +2 or +3 GOE across the board like other skaters. Most of them get 0 and some +1. I'm pretty sure her PCS also suffer the consequences of her jumps. How much more stricter should they be with her?

I think judges should be harder on her jumps (yeah, calling those prerotations). But then, in turn, the jump quality should not reflect in her PCs.
Her final score would be around same i guess, but it would make more sense (pre-rotation = bad technique = your BV and GOE suffer, that shouldnt factor into PCs)

 

[solani]

As long as Shoma Uno's quad flip was ratified by the ISU and he is recognized as the first skater to land it in competition then why should Miyahara's PR be punished? I'm not saying it's right but she shouldn't be singled out. Should all of her jumps get UR calls because of the excess of 1/4? I don't know. But I've never seen her jumps getting +2 or +3 GOE across the board like other skaters. Most of them get 0 and some +1. I'm pretty sure her PCS also suffer the consequences of her jumps. How much more stricter should they be with her?

I agree. I only wish she would do more edge jumps than to jumps, because her edge jumps are better in my opinion. She's going for maximum base value and it's clear that the judges don't value her edge jumps more, but I would appreciate it.
I guess that tech panels are discussing Shoma's 4F and I think it's not unlikely that we'll see a minor change in the rulebook if Shoma is landing his 4F consistently this season and that could also hurt Satoko.

 

[noidont]

I don't see the artistry and/or musicality people think she has. To me she has good edgework (but not Mao or Carolina level brilliant) and precise execution of choreography (i.e. not sloppy), but that's about it. To be honest I think her PCS is often overscored, but I don't think she has grave UR problem, just low grade of execution.

 

[ioanna]

I agree. I only wish she would do more edge jumps than to jumps, because her edge jumps are better in my opinion. She's going for maximum base value and it's clear that the judges don't value her edge jumps more, but I would appreciate it.
I guess that tech panels are discussing Shoma's 4F and I think it's not unlikely that we'll see a minor change in the rulebook if Shoma is landing his 4F consistently this season and that could also hurt Satoko.

If there will ever be any changes in the rulebook then the only jumps I would agree with calling excessive PR on would be her toeloop and her flip. I don't think the lutz is any different than many of the other ladies. Her edge jumps are all ok. But if this were to happen and her TES would drop then I think a raise of her PCS would be fair, IMO. Then she would have to give up on her flip and work on replacing the toeloop with a loop. I know she can jump 2A-3Lo, for instance.

 

[Barb]

Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.

Performance? they just smile and move their arms wildly.

 

[ioanna]

Since I'm one of the most firm believers that Satoko has musicality, can perform, can interpret and can express the music, I'm going to back up my opinion using some stills from competitions.

The Magic Flute
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+2015+Shanghai+World+Figure+JZ9fAdEBkJ1x.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+ISU+Four+Continents+Figure+M1rN_KQ3y6Nx.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+ISU+World+Team+Trophy+Day+DsD2bA2mLzZx.jpg

Miss Saigon
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+83rd+Japan+Figure+Skating+JQFapMAl_mRx.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+ISU+World+Team+Trophy+Day+-Z-sNVyOSIDx.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Satoko+Miyahara+83rd+Japan+Figure+Skating+Kuv16wHpD94x.jpg
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/p28-skate-d-20150329-e1427542201981.jpg

Firedance
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6uUDY3_zb...BW7U/6Prk6tL_dCs/s1600/sp-jack-d-20151128.jpg
http://67.media.tumblr.com/053a47d508439e7627d40ecbad21f0e5/tumblr_nuwpf19f1Z1qav07ko1_500.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/3e6ab7631f0dbbffdd30d6863c1c1977/tumblr_od5kcadJyD1uh3g7co1_540.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/073dfd3d4b84047cd488da168815d69f/tumblr_nwuh30XkPU1uh3g7co1_500.png

Un Sospiro
http://66.media.tumblr.com/1f5981b8f66e932e3e828963a04f8191/tumblr_o4un8u5ncE1uh3g7co1_540.png
http://67.media.tumblr.com/7e5623f5f3aa67ba036098539e104f9d/tumblr_nwqwcpZJBL1uh3g7co1_540.png
http://66.media.tumblr.com/b2d407c08ce17908a89402b5651948b5/tumblr_nzgjcx0zCu1tekytio2_1280.jpg
http://67.media.tumblr.com/c89f0dbdbbbbf39b39e25b65097fb0a4/tumblr_o021uy31lk1uh3g7co2_540.png

Musetta's Waltz (pictures by Saya)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsiP60sUAAAtJHl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsiQJTlUIAAxDA7.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsiRCyyVMAAD1xn.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsiRDEpUsAAIXuB.jpg

The Planets / Star Wars (pictures by Yuki)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsrvhqRWEAANTQ0.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsncapvUsAAjnMO.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsnTcYhUIAAfwY9.jpg

 

[shiroKJ]

Satoko, in my opinion, has musicality, elegance, refinement and most importantly consistency. BUT, she skates way too small for me to really enjoy her. When I saw her live, I thought she looked even smaller than on video and it was quite bland to be honest. The excitement just isn't there and I don't feel moved by her skating like I would by skaters such as Carolina or Mao.

Its not her structure to blame (as there are other similar skaters with big jumps and presence) but rather, it's her technique and style.

Overall, lovely skater, lovely personality, talented and hardworking, but not my cup of tea. Her costumes are beautiful this season though :luv17:

 

[hippomoomin]

Satoko, in my opinion, has musicality, elegance, refinement and most importantly consistency. BUT, she skates way too small for me to really enjoy her. When I saw her live, I thought she looked even smaller than on video and it was quite bland to be honest. The excitement just isn't there and I don't feel moved by her skating like I would by skaters such as Carolina or Mao.

Its not her structure to blame (as there are other similar skaters with big jumps and presence) but rather, it's her technique and style.

Overall, lovely skater, lovely personality, talented and hardworking, but not my cup of tea. Her costumes are beautiful this season though :luv17:

I support your reasoning. Having a small body does not automatically make your jumps (in height and distance), or skating look small. Alexandra Proklova for example, was tiny but had great projection to the audience. Her jumps did not look small at. We only see the relative height of a person and scale of jumps from TV or computer screen. So I would image that small jumps on screen will appear even smaller in real life.

 

[Crossover]

I support your reasoning. Having a small body does not automatically make your jumps (in height and distance), or skating look small. Alexandra Proklova for example, was tiny but had great projection to the audience. Her jumps did not look small at. We only see the relative height of a person and scale of jumps from TV or computer screen. So I would image that small jumps on screen will appear even smaller in real life.

The example is not quite right. Proklova's jumps looked to me very small although her presentation was lovely and she used a lot of the ice. Midori Ito had a small-built body (only 4' 9''), but she jumped big.

 

[Interspectator]

Kaori Sakamoto is also very small but jumps big.