Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating

andyjo24 said:
I disagree that Satoko needs more refinement. Personally, I feel that she is more refined than Gracie Gold and Elena Radionova, for example. Satoko has great posture, deep edges, and lovely arms. I do agree that her small physique makes all her movements appear "smaller" than other skaters (I've seen her live at Worlds 2016), but what can she do? All she can do is to do her very best to improve, and that is why I respect her although she is not one of my favorites. I was absolutely shocked how she was lowballed in PCS at Worlds. She should have received a 68-69, not a 66...
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I totally agree with the Worlds thing. When I saw her score and how she was knocked off the podium with a clean skate, I was disappointed. (But it might have been from a "safe" program, as I said before)
And when I say refinement, I mean technical, not artistic.
Perhaps it is her small size that makes her movements seem smaller. But, I mean, skaters only 2-3 inches taller than her get considerably more height in their jumps and more power in their movements. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, for example, is only three inches taller and has much more power in her skating and height in her jumps. Sasha Cohen is(/was) the same. Height also isn't an excuse for lower speed and needing more complex footwork.
I'm not saying she isn't doing the best she can, or that I don't like her skating. But the thread was asking about opinions on her skating and why opinions on her seem so wide-ranged. And so I gave my personal opinion formed from watching her skates, which is that she is lovely and artistic but just not fast and high enough.
 
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MaryKate said:
I'm not saying she isn't doing the best she can, or that I don't like her skating. But the thread was asking about opinions on her skating and why opinions on her seem so wide-ranged. And so I gave my personal opinion formed from watching her skates, which is that she is lovely and artistic but just not fast and high enough.
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If you don't think she's underscored then just prepare for internet pies to be thrown in your direction. I've been eating those things for over a year now it feels like. :laugh:

Honestly I'm just numb to seeing her scores which always seem a tad high IMO :yawn:
 
Great score for a first skate of the season. That's really encouraging for Satoko. Also, a better outing for Mariah at USFSC and a performance to build upon.
 
ioanna said:
She will never get a great deal of height; they forcibly changed her dominant clockwise direction to counterclockwise. People will either have to accept that or keep beating a dead horse. I wasn't pointing out the jumps though, I pointed out the fact that she got a riskier program this season among other things; it's only the beginning of the season. Time will tell whether she will own this risky program or not.
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Just because her dominant rotation was unfortunately forcibly changed doesn't mean that she should receive the points for fully-rotated jumps when they are often not fully rotated. How about we all accept that her jumps are tiny? The excuse for it ultimately doesn't matter, though it's certainly a shame. If they had never changed her rotation, would she be a top elite skater with better jumps??

Regarding her refinement, I think she's probably one of the most refined ladies in the field, very graceful choreography that is very well executed, but IMO she lacks a certain fire and spark. I'm not quite sure what it is - perhaps it is that I do not detect an emotional connection to her choreography/performance? I want to see some more personality or overt confidence when she takes the ice, maybe? Some kind of emotional vulnerability, or the opposite: an expression of ready to kick butt. I realize that for many skaters, getting out on the ice and putting down a clean performance is just their job, but it's always more endearing to me to see something other than that. I think part of it might be that her jumps and physical appearance are juniorish, which does detract from her more mature skating and choreography.

I'm not seriously criticizing her, btw, just trying to better understand and communicate my own lukewarm response to her skating. Jumps are part of it.
 
MaryKate said:
In my opinion Miyahara is actually a great and graceful artist; her choreography and ice presence are (in my eyes) reminiscent of Yuna Kim. But the similarity stops there, because Miyahara plays it safe- way too safe. She doesn't seem to pour her heart and soul into her programs and looks cautious. She needs more artistic energy, a little more speed and ice coverage, many more triples and overall riskier programs to make it to the podium. I think her safeness (or perhaps just her hidden inability?) keeps her from the podium when she has potential in lightness, facial expression, and elegance to make it there.
I think big fans of hers are in love with her Yuna-esque lightness and flow (in contrast with skaters who have a "heavier" presence) and others are frustrated with how slow and and careful she seems compared to high jumpers like Gracie Gold. Just my two cents.
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How can Miyahara do "many more triples" as you are asking her to do without breaking the rules? Like all the top ladies, she's doing 7 triples (and 2 double axels) in the FS and 3 triples (and 1 double axel) in the SP. Other than putting in a quad or a 3axel, she's on the same page technically as the other top skaters.

Also, I understand the comparison you are trying to make with Yuna, but Yuna certainly did not max out her triples (which arguably played a big part in her loss in Sochi - not attempting a 3loop). And as much as I like Yuna, I wouldn't say she poured her heart and soul into programs. In fact, she seemed quite detached and dead in the face in some programs. Fortunately for Yuna, given her competition at the time and overall skating ability, she didn't need more.
 
artsciboy said:
And as much as I like Yuna, I wouldn't say she poured her heart and soul into programs. In fact, she seemed quite detached and dead in the face in some programs. Fortunately for Yuna, given her competition at the time and overall skating ability, she didn't need more.
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Danse Macabre. But yes, after 2010, she didn't the same fieriness, with the exception of her Nessun Dorma exhibition.

@andromache - I don't know if fierceness is Miyahara's style, and I wonder if this inclination for overt displays of confidence and emotion is a Western thing. When it works naturally, it works, but I rather Miyahara stick to her own lovely, delicate style than try to emulate OTT displays of someone like Wagner or Sotnikova. Miyahara certainly connects to her program more than say, Gracie Gold.
 
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andyjo24 said:
I disagree that Satoko needs more refinement. Personally, I feel that she is more refined than Gracie Gold and Elena Radionova, for example. Satoko has great posture, deep edges, and lovely arms. I do agree that her small physique makes all her movements appear "smaller" than other skaters (I've seen her live at Worlds 2016), but what can she do? All she can do is to do her very best to improve, and that is why I respect her although she is not one of my favorites. I was absolutely shocked how she was lowballed in PCS at Worlds. She should have received a 68-69, not a 66...
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She has refinement in spades. i agree that she is hampered--unfairly-- by her small stature. And her jumps are small, too, but can you say Tara Lipinski? The judges are within their rights, I suppose, to mark her down for jumping small. But not for PCS. Her P/E and I should be among the best. She is better than all of the Russians, and Gracie Gold, too, in her musicality and interpretation.
 
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andromache said:
Just because her dominant rotation was unfortunately forcibly changed doesn't mean that she should receive the points for fully-rotated jumps when they are often not fully rotated. How about we all accept that her jumps are tiny? The excuse for it ultimately doesn't matter, though it's certainly a shame. If they had never changed her rotation, would she be a top elite skater with better jumps??
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If her jumps are often not fully rotated then is she getting preferential treatment from the judges? And if so, why would she get it? I'll take US Classic as an example; the jumps that were obviously underrotated were called; the 3T in the SP and the 3F in the FS. The others, in my opinion, were fine. So I'm also wondering, why would the judges not penalize her? She's been competing in seniors for 2 years, her jumps have been reviewed by many different technical panels and the outcome has always been the same.

Regarding her rotation, it's like forcing a right-handed person to write neat and clean with their left hand.
 
jenaj said:
Her P/E and I should be among the best. She is better than all of the Russians, and Gracie Gold, too, in her musicality and interpretation.
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That's subjective, and I gotta say, I disagree. She leaves me incredibly cold.

(Not that any of the Russians or Grace are lighting my world on fire either, mind you.)
 
jenaj said:
She has refinement in spades. i agree that she is hampered--unfairly-- by her small stature. And her jumps are small, too, but can you say Tara Lipinski? The judges are within their rights, I suppose, to mark her down for jumping small. But not for PCS. Her P/E and I should be among the best. She is better than all of the Russians, and Gracie Gold, too, in her musicality and interpretation.
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Thats debatable. For example, i agree with TAT about Satoko's lack of musicality.
Also, imho, she lacks performance. I dunno, just not exciting, forgettable. Unlike Gracie when on, for example, or Radionova when on, etc.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
If you don't think she's underscored then just prepare for internet pies to be thrown in your direction. I've been eating those things for over a year now it feels like. :laugh:

Honestly I'm just numb to seeing her scores which always seem a tad high IMO :yawn:
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I actually don't think she's overscored (at least not at 2016 Worlds she wasn't) because like I said, she is a lovely artist, but I, you know, stand by what I said about her jumping and speed.
Thanks for the tip! ;)
I don't know why the opinion of an unseasoned teenage skater matters so much...I was just throwing my input into the thread, as usually happens in these forums. :shocked:
If I'm wrong, Miyahara's performance should speak for itself. If not, well...:rolleye:
 
artsciboy said:
How can Miyahara do "many more triples" as you are asking her to do without breaking the rules? Like all the top ladies, she's doing 7 triples (and 2 double axels) in the FS and 3 triples (and 1 double axel) in the SP. Other than putting in a quad or a 3axel, she's on the same page technically as the other top skaters.

Also, I understand the comparison you are trying to make with Yuna, but Yuna certainly did not max out her triples (which arguably played a big part in her loss in Sochi - not attempting a 3loop). And as much as I like Yuna, I wouldn't say she poured her heart and soul into programs. In fact, she seemed quite detached and dead in the face in some programs. Fortunately for Yuna, given her competition at the time and overall skating ability, she didn't need more.
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Yes, but I think she'd do well to do some triple combos and jump higher.
Dead in the face? Watch Yuna's Bond girl performance. In fact, both SP and LP in both Olympics. Wouldn't call those dead in the face. Also, she had fantastic competition. I don't really know what you're talking about there. Mao Asada?

You know it's just my opinion, right? No one's forum response is gonna change that...only Miyahara's performance would. I like Miyahara and her skating- she seems sweet and her programs are graceful, lithe, and pleasing. But I enjoy watching others more for their height, speed, and wow factor in the technical department, which looks to me (and the judges) above Miyahara. Just my feelings...nothing that affects anybody negatively in any way. :) People can root for her all they want. I like the diversity of opinion.
 
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MaryKate said:
Yes, but I think she'd do well to do some triple combos and jump higher.
Dead in the face? Watch Yuna's Bond girl performance. In fact, both SP and LP in both Olympics. Wouldn't call those dead in the face. Also, she had fantastic competition. I don't really know what you're talking about there. Mao Asada?

You know it's just my opinion, right? No one's forum response is gonna change that...only Mirayama's performance would. I like Mirayama and her skating- she seems sweet and her programs are graceful, lithe, and pleasing. But I enjoy watching others more for their height, speed, and wow factor in the technical department, which looks to me (and the judges) above Mirayama. Just my feelings...nothing that affects anybody negatively in any way. :) People can root for her all they want. I like the diversity of opinion.
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Why do you call her Mirayama? (Just curious)
 
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