Trying this again | Golden Skate

Trying this again

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
So you may remember I tried this skating thing in 2019 and was not so super politely turned away from Adult Learn to Skste. Natasha, my new friend from Skate America, put me in touch with a coach at Kirkwood. I told her what happened last time (could not get up from the ground with skates on) and she apologized and said that was the old skating director and it would not happen again.
So now I have to buy skates again. I’m going to try one more time!
 
So you may remember I tried this skating thing in 2019 and was not so super politely turned away from Adult Learn to Skste. Natasha, my new friend from Skate America, put me in touch with a coach at Kirkwood. I told her what happened last time (could not get up from the ground with skates on) and she apologized and said that was the old skating director and it would not happen again.
So now I have to buy skates again. I’m going to try one more time!
Good luck in learning how to skate! I took a series of Learn to Skate classes in early 2019 at a local rink in Southern California and it certainly helped me appreciate what the high-level skaters we see at tournaments are able to do. 🙂
 
If you take a private lesson, you could tell the coach you want to spend that lesson learning to falling gently, and getting back up. Or maybe a friend could show you.

Last I knew, that was officially the nominal first part of group learn-to-skate lessons. But some coaches don't teach it, or don't teach it to adults, because they think adults will be afraid.

I personally think they are the most important skills a person can learn before beginning almost any type of athletic activity, to avoid future injuries.

FALLING

Falling gently on the ice is relatively simple. (falling on Skis is harder, because the extra length of skis has more leverage to force you past the limits of your flexibility - e.g., you want both feet and legs on the same side of your body. But that isn't essential on skates.) You want to relax enough that your muscles aren't very tense (maybe the most important thing - I think a large fraction of injuries are created by your own muscle tension), but you still want to be able to control your trajectory enough that no hard bone makes initial contact - try to make sure soft tissue touches first.

And you want to roll or slide across the ice, rather than keeping the contact in one place, which would have to take all the force. I like to let the contact roll or glide to other parts of the body, avoiding my skull. E.g., for forwards and sideways falls, I barely touch my hands and/or forearms, and glide the contact onto the rest of the arms and body. For backwards falls, I roll backwards, straightening my legs as it progresses, to slow me down, so I don't hit my head. Ideally I would roll over a shoulder if going very fast, but I'm not fast enough for that to be needed.

It helps A LOT to be wearing clothing that touches all parts of your body that might scrape against the ice (e.g., long pants, long sleeve shirt or jacket, gloves), so you don't have any skin contact - abrasions and cuts happen easily, if you happen to hit a scratch on the ice. (If you get an abrasion, I suggest you wash it clean, and use a Band-Aid or equivalent.) It is easiest to start practice falling from a sitting or kneeling position, and work your way up to standing position, and later from jumps. You want to be able to safely fall in all possible directions (e.g., forward, back, left, right). I almost always wear gloves. I don't wear a helmet, but you could at first, if it makes you feel more comfortable.

The thing is, other people who might run into you while you are down are a hazard too. You want to practice this while there are very few people on the ice. Some times and places public sessions are almost empty at the beginning or end of a session.

If you do it right, there really is no reason why you should be hurt falling on the ice from a standing position, or a short distance above the ice. Human bodies have to be designed to fall gently, because we are two footed beasties. You probably did it as an infant, many, many times. A few infants do hurt themselves falling, but most manage. If done right, falling shouldn't hurt.

Lots of practice is essential. If you practice, you eventually develop reflexes that are fast enough to do everything right. OTOH, if you try to figure out what to do while it is happening, there really isn't time. At a rough estimate an adult has 0.7-0.8 seconds to reach the ice from a standing height. A well established simple reflex can occur in about 0.1 seconds, but you don't always want to fall if you get a bit out of balance - sometimes you can compensate a number of ways - e.g., by moving a leg and foot to stop the fall. Making that decision, if it too is practiced, adds about 0.2 more seconds. (There is some variation, person-to-person in these timings.) Still plenty of time to do it right.

OTOH, suppose you start to fall, and you haven't practiced it enough for the sequence to become a reflex. It may take a few seconds for you to recall the suggested sequence, or figure out which applies. By that time you are already down. And you may also panic and tighten all your muscles, which makes you much more vulnerable to injury. In fact, muscle tension can itself break bone. And you may land on hard bone - like knees, base of the spine, elbow, skull, and break it.

There are a number of variations on falls, which a coach who gets lots of practice might be able to show you. Though you might have a coach who doesn't believe in this. E.g., some coaches think you should never fall backwards. That would be an OK theory, except that it happens a lot in real life, so I think it makes sense to learn do it gently. I took my first falling lesson from a modern dance teacher. Other people use martial arts instructors - though combat rolls may involve more force, and require you to get up more quickly, so you can't relax as much. Some sports require you to fall on rough surfaces, where you need to avoid rolling across your spine, and some require you to throw yourself clear of a heavy object, like a horse or motorcycle. But ice can be gentle.

I wish I could do split falls. They are are truly beautiful, and you end up spreading the force all across the legs, but if you aren't flexible enough to split, keep your feet fairly close together on the ice - and also keep them on one side of the body on skis. (I once had a very bad muscle pull on a backwards moving ski fall, because the tails of the skis crossed, and forced my hips more open than my flexibility allowed. If my muscles were more flexible, that might have created an ACL injury instead.)

GETTING UP

On skates or skis getting up is simple, in theory. You roll onto your knees. (On skis, you put your knees on the skis, but skates are too short for that. But I still put them inline with each other. Also, you probably want to place your skis across the slope, so you don't slide as you are trying to get up.)

Then you put one or both hands ahead of you on the ice, or directly alongside and outside the knees.

You move one foot forwards.

Then I at least put the one or both hands on the forwards knee, and put some of my weight on it, to get a little extra force and balance. People with high flexibility or very long arms can keep it next to the forward skate.

You stand up, first on the forwards foot and leg, which drags the other leg up too. That requires balance, and you may not succeed the first time. So you may get extra practice falling. No problem.

Some people can get up with both feet in back of them, and/or only by putting their hands on the ice, without knee contact. Or they do a martial arts style roll. Those requires more strength, flexibility and balance. Keep it simple, at first.
 
If you take a private lesson, you could tell the coach you want to spend that lesson learning to falling gently, and getting back up. Or maybe a friend could show you.
.....

I think you may have misunderstood @moonvine's message.

Those of us who were on the Board heard her saga of trying to learn to fall with all the usual and typical encouragement and reasons that it is important. It did not work and she needs a coach/teacher who can understand her physical limitations and work with her.

Those are the best coaches after all. :)
 
So you may remember I tried this skating thing in 2019 and was not so super politely turned away from Adult Learn to Skste. Natasha, my new friend from Skate America, put me in touch with a coach at Kirkwood. I told her what happened last time (could not get up from the ground with skates on) and she apologized and said that was the old skating director and it would not happen again.
So now I have to buy skates again. I’m going to try one more time!
I remember your previous posts. Glad you haven't given up. Good luck to you. I really hope you get a competent, understanding coach this time; not another wacko.
 
I think you may have misunderstood @moonvine's message.

Those of us who were on the Board heard her saga of trying to learn to fall with all the usual and typical encouragement and reasons that it is important. It did not work and she needs a coach/teacher who can understand her physical limitations and work with her.

Those are the best coaches after all. :)

OK. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to see her 2019 posts. So, having spent thousands of hours working on falling safely after my own falling injury, I gave a somewhat generic answer, which you are implying isn't appropriate to her.

She must have a great deal of courage & determination to attempt to skate if she has this issue. I hope she finds a reasonably safe & enjoyable way to do it.

Are there are skating coaches who have been specifically trained for dealing with people who for one reason or another are physically unable to get up on their own? What type of training? Or is it a mix of training programs - e.g., a medical specialty + coach training?
 
OK. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to see her 2019 posts. So, having spent thousands of hours working on falling safely after my own falling injury, I gave a somewhat generic answer, which you are implying isn't appropriate to her.

She must have a great deal of courage & determination to attempt to skate if she has this issue. I hope she finds a reasonably safe & enjoyable way to do it.

Are there are skating coaches who have been specifically trained for dealing with people who for one reason or another are physically unable to get up on their own? What type of training? Or is it a mix of training programs - e.g., a medical specialty + coach training?

I know it's difficult to follow from something that happened a few years ago, so that's why I mentioned it. (welcome!) I think we are all hoping that @moonvine finds a coach that can work with her, and that she will report back.
 
OK. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to see her 2019 posts.
On the upper right hand corner of the webpage, click on the "Search" tab; then the "Advanced search" tab"; then the "Search threads" tab. Fill in the appropriate fields, and click "Search".
 
Oh. And someone sent me the link to the thread where Moonvine introduced that topic. Many people in that thread told Moonvine, that using her hands was OK, and was included in the most common ways of getting up.

There are ways to get up without using your hands, and you sometimes see one or more of those ways as part of a skating or dance group's choreography. If you want to joint a group that is doing that, and you can't, they might choose to exclude you. Some groups are extremely selective. Hopefully, you don't have to join one to enjoy skating.

But AFAIK, there is no reason a figure skater couldn't choose not to have those ways incorporated into her personal skating routines. It is incomprehensible to me that an ordinary rink's skating director would deny you the right to take lessons altogether for that.

Of course, except for a very few moves in which touching the ice with your hands is required, a judge might deduct points for touching the ice with your hands - but that doesn't mean you have to give up on skating altogether!

So, Moonvine, unless you want to join a group that requires it, don't worry about it. And probably completely ignore my earlier long post about falling and getting up. Whatever way you use, with or without hands is probably good enough for most coaches & figure skating directors, as long as you don't hurt yourself.
 
I remember your previous posts, I'm glad your trying again.

I've never, in 10+ years of skating, been made to get up without using my hands (which I seem to recall at least one rink you tried were insisting on) and to be honest, due to some disability related balance issues, if I fall, my coach will usually offer me a hand up. I CAN get up, but it's not pretty, so if I ever hit the deck in competition I'm gonna make a fool of myself! Some of this, for me, is also due to my weight and I am working to address that too - I currently can't do all the fun slides because although I can get down, getting up on the move ain't happening!

Hopefully you get a great coach who's willing to work with you to help you succeed.

@Query to answer your question about medically trained coaches etc - if medical advice doesn't rule skating out, then any good coach can work with that skater. They just have to be willing to understand the person's limitations. There are hundreds of skaters with various disabilities competing through Inclusive Skating events, and likely many thousands all over the world competing in mainstream events or just skating for fun. I know a couple of people who skate using a specialist skating frame, because falling would not be good for them due to their conditions. In shows, one or both of them will join us on the ice their wheelchairs. There are many ways to skate :)
 
I've never, in 10+ years of skating, been made to get up without using my hands (which I seem to recall at least one rink you tried were insisting on) and to be honest, due to some disability related balance issues, if I fall, my coach will usually offer me a hand up. I CAN get up, but it's not pretty, so if I ever hit the deck in competition I'm gonna make a fool of myself!
Ditto. I used to joke a few years ago that if I fell in competition I would pretend to be injured so someone would come out on the ice and help me up. Fortunately, I didn't fall in competition.

But I haven't competed in about 2 1/2 years and never will again. The last time I really figure skated was over a year ago, and I'm not sure I'll be able to do that again either. I can make my way around the ice on a public session, but it's just not as much fun.
 
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