Two Rise As Future of U.S. Skating

[Geesesk8]

LA Times, 4/7/07:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/print...oll=la-headlines-pe-sports&ctrack=2&cset=true

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for the post.

"Mirai Nagasu didn't catch much of the TV coverage of the world figure skating championships last month in Tokyo.

But she had a good excuse. She doesn't have cable TV.

Caroline Zhang didn't watch much either.

She gave up TV for Lent, although she admits she peeked a few times at the coverage on YouTube..."

"In the absence of nine-time U.S. champion Michelle Kwan and Cohen, Meissner has been the most publicized U.S. skater. But Nagasu and Zhang are quickly being added to the picture....

"With U.S. Figure Skating's longtime TV contract with ABC hanging in the balance, some are wondering if Nagasu and Zhang can save the sport."

 

[PolymerBob]

I would say we are putting quite a bit of pressure on two 13 year old girls. Saving an entire sport would be an aweful burden for an adult, let alone children.

 

[rain]

Yeah, talk about pressure. And look at all the junior phenoms that never really make it in seniors for various reasons..... I think this kind of thing can only hurt young skaters. And talk about dumping on the current skaters. Meissner is a world champion. And finished in fourth place this worlds. She's hardly chopped liver — and has proven she is a great competitor who can handle the pressure. I know one thing for sure, denigrating your current crop of skaters isn't going to revive skating.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Of all the sports I read, I would not rank much hype in Figure Skating. In Tokyo, the English language dailies always had more to say about baseball and of their best players going on to join US teams. Al lot was said about Matisuki going to the Boston Braves. However, the Japanese did hype their skaters in many, many magazines and during the Worlds in newspapers. Why not? I really don't see anything wrong with hype.

Kimmie wasn't expected to win and she didn't. Mao was ex[ected to win and she didn't.

Joe

 

[flying camel]

Yes, they will have lots of pressure on them in the future. I guess skaters like Bebe, Khale and Flatt are not important since they don't have the results of the top juniors. It seems the juniors have already been put in front of most of the seniors. Maybe this will make the senior ladies work harder.

 

[NorthernLite]

And talk about dumping on the current skaters. Meissner is a world champion. And finished in fourth place this worlds. She's hardly chopped liver — and has proven she is a great competitor who can handle the pressure. I know one thing for sure, denigrating your current crop of skaters isn't going to revive skating.

At last a GS post I can get behind. Perhaps this kind of talk will only motivate Kimmie even more. (Although I'm sure she's already motivated enough.)

I don't remember if I have an LA Times password, so I haven't read it all, I'm only going by MM's quotes. But Mirai saying she didn't see much of World 'cos she doesn't have cable? What does that say about a sport when its own "promising" participants don't watch it. Way to promote it, girls. (Kinda J/K, but you'd think someone could get a tape or watch it at a friend's house.)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't know if you skate competitively, Flying Camel, but skaters regardless if the expectation is great or non existent, always have the heeby jeebies when their names are called to be judged. They are trained to use the 2 minutes to get used to all those wonderful people out there in the dark. Come to their starting pose and erase the heeby jeebies. Some do it better than others but I don't think expectation is a factor unless they forget the basic rule of skating their best regardless of what the judges are thinking.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

I wonder if it won't help the skaters in the long run. It will get them used to pressure when they are really having much less of it due to age limits. After all, even if these bozos didn't talk so much, these kids have to know about the federation money problems.

 

[Nigel]

Yes, they will have lots of pressure on them in the future. I guess skaters like Bebe, Khale and Flatt are not important since they don't have the results of the top juniors. It seems the juniors have already been put in front of most of the seniors. Mybe this will make the senior ladies work harder.

Bebe, Danielle and Rachael are not as important as top juniors?

I still find it surprising that so many fans are writing off some of the senior competitors at this point and annointing the junior skaters before they have competed nationally as Sr.

Not to rehash the resumes of these skaters....But....

First of all, Wagner, IIRC, is the only one of the three juniors that has competed as a senior lady, in a late summer club event this past season, just before the JGP events started.

Caroline and Mirai have yet to compete as seniors, correct?

This was Mirai's first nationals...so absolutely no expectations of her on a national level, other than those goals she and coaches set for her in her performances. No international experiences. Good National event for her this year as well as JW.

Zhang has been to several national events...JN's as well as an NAC event a few years back, Novice and 2 yrs as a junior at US Nationals as well as the JGP this past fall. She has had more national exposure, and based upon her JGP experiences this past fall, there were probably greater expectations of her performances at Natl's than the other girls (and she did make mistakes, and she admitted that she got distracted). Good Nationals, JGP series and JW for her this season.

Wagner, has several National championships under her skates as well...Novice and 2 yrs at Junior as well as this past season fall JGP events. So, again, expectations for her at Nationals were high. Good Nationals, JGP and JW events for her as well.

But, who walked in through the open door and won at Nationals? The skater who probably was most focused on her performances, rather than the outcome. Mirai.

Then, to say that the current Sr ladies are less important...let's skip the top three...and go to Bebe (4th), Rachael (5th) and Danielle (6th).

Bebe has been going to US Nationals as a Sr lady since she was 12. Good performances here and there throughout her career, both at Nationals and Internationally, but for various reasons, has not quite hit the top. Lots of experience, but still hasn't quite delivered.

Rachael...Intl events: age ineligible to receive a JGP event as the Novice Champion, nothing last spring post her silver medal finish at Junior at US Nationals (as the JGP series would have been her assignments...but out due to injury), and then finished 5th this season at her first yr as a Sr lady at US Nationals (youngest Sr lady) with very good performances, particularly the SP. And only one of three US ladies to do 3/3 combos...Meissner and Flatt have 3Lz/3T and Christine Zukowski (does 3T/3T).

Danielle showed progress this year as well. She has also had Intl events and several National championships under her skates as well beginning as a Novice. Somewhat like Bebe, has had some good performances and others that were weaker.

At this point, lets wait to pass judgment on any of these skaters until they are all on a level playing field...at the Senior Natl Championships. I think it is still about demonstrating that the skater progresses, demonstrating a steep learning curve throughout their career; that they can continually produce quality performances under pressure, and that their bodies do allow them to continue with the sport.

So, why are we comparing apples to oranges at this point. The three Jr ladies that are being promoted at this point do show a great deal of potential. But, until this upcoming season, they have yet to compete as Sr ladies at the National Championship level. Talk to any competitive skater and ask them what it is like to compete at US Nationals as a Nov, Jr or Sr and which is the most difficult. You are under a magnifying glass as a Sr, and that is all there is to it. No way around it.

Danielle, Ashley and Bebe are probably done growing, Flatt turns 15 later this summer, Mirai turns 14 this month IIRC and Caroline also turns 14 this spring...so the last three still have some growing to do. Looking at the younger skaters...Flatt probably has the jump edge on the Jr skaters at this point, but still needs to work on flexibility (and perhaps that will come back as we remember her spins from her Nov and Jr performances from Natls which were very good), Mirai has very nice technique on her jumps and spins, Caroline great flexiblity but odd technique on lutz and flip. It still comes down to a total package, and all of these skaters can continue to improve. I would not write off any of them, or really promote one over the other at this point. This is a LONG road, folks.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I agree with attyfan that the exposure now will allow them to learn to handle media attention.

I can't help the feeling, though, that because of her fourth-place finish, the media is starting to write off Meissner and is looking for her replacement. I watched Meissner's Tokyo performances with and without sound, and I was very impressed by the deepening of her musical interpretation. She was very patient with her phrasing in both programs, and I think she looked great in "Snowstorm" and has made great strides in completing her movements. I think she needs a little more time to adjust to her new height/body. I see her moving toward the simple elegance of Fleming's style, and I'm looking forward to seeing where she is at the grand old age of 20.

Zhang and Nagasu are very talented young skaters, and I look forward to seeing them develop over the next few years' competitions. But I don't see a reason to discount Meissner in the process and look to Zhang/Nagasu as the saviors of US skating.

 

[SeaniBu]

Zhang and Nagasu are very talented young skaters, and I look forward to seeing them develop over the next few years' competitions. But I don't see a reason to discount Meissner in the process and look to Zhang/Nagasu as the saviors of US skating.

:agree: Go Kimmie.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hockeyfan - I sense the US fans are writing off Kimmie but I have not read anything in the press.

Kimmie has all the elements of a winning senior but she doesn't know how to sell them. But then Miki was in the same boat in Dortmund and Moscow. I don't remember her as special in Calgary. Then came Skate America and Tokyo.

Maybe Kimmie needs to be Morozoft.

Joe

 

[gio]

Maybe Kimmie needs to be Morozoft.

It will be an idea. The facts speak!!! Last year Morozov lead Shizuka to Olympic gold, this year he lead Miki to Worlds gold. So, maybe he could lead Kimmie to the 08 Worlds gold.

 

[alicelouise]

Writing off skaters

I am a long time fan of skating. There have been so many skaters written off that have come back. Maria Butyrskaya was encouraged to retire by her federation in 1993. Nancy Kerrigan had a disappointing World Championship in 1993. Irina Slutskaya was kicked off the Russian team for only less than stellar results in1999. Let's not forget the current World Champ, MIki Ando, a 15th place finish at the 2006 Olympics. They all had success afterwards.

Conversly, there have been many skaters that have been touted that don't meet expectations. Doing well and winning at the Jr. level is not to be discounted. For many skaters that may be their career zenith. There have been too many "can't miss" prodigies to count in the World and the US.

History may even favor Kimmie Meissner. She can practice and improve without hounding by the media. Alissa Czisny and Emily Hughes have chances as well. All three of these skaters would be wanted by any federation.

 

[rain]

I further find it absurd to write off 16 and 17 year olds just because there are talented kids who are even younger. Even when those 16-17 year olds have had good international results.

I also find it somewhat hilarious that Nagasu and Zhang are touted as the future of U.S. figure skating, as if they are supposed to compete in ladies, mens, dance and pairs. Yeah, those other disciplines do exist. Imagine that.

 

[R.D.]

I can't help the feeling, though, that because of her fourth-place finish, the media is starting to write off Meissner and is looking for her replacement. I watched Meissner's Tokyo performances with and without sound, and I was very impressed by the deepening of her musical interpretation. She was very patient with her phrasing in both programs, and I think she looked great in "Snowstorm" and has made great strides in completing her movements. I think she needs a little more time to adjust to her new height/body. I see her moving toward the simple elegance of Fleming's style, and I'm looking forward to seeing where she is at the grand old age of 20.

Well, remember, this is the US. Also, this is the first time in 10+ years the US ladies have been completely pushed off the podium. Although I'm one of those who questions the future of US skating (don't think Zhang/Nagasu are ready for primetime just yet) I'm not ready to count out Kim- she seems ready to put herself back "up there" with the Asians. But no one can teach great presentation and skaters like Asada and Yuna will always have the edge on her.

I'd give her time to progress, but in the meantime look for someone in the US to step up and match the Japanese. I can't see anyone else other than Kimmie at the current time. Em Hughes seems to be off to college and Alyssa is not competitive with the top 10 in the world.

I haven't seen many reports on the Worlds here actually- not too surprising given the results. A brief mention is all it deserves. But if it's true and the press begins to count Meissner out it can only work in her favor.

 

[PolymerBob]

We seem to be talking about Kimmie like she is the only American senior who has a chance to beat the Asian ladies. I do not believe this is the case. In fact, I think 2 or 3 of our ladies who did not climb the podium in Spokane will make a major impact in the next few years.

 

[iloveaxel]

We seem to be talking about Kimmie like she is the only American senior who has a chance to beat the Asian ladies. I do not believe this is the case. In fact, I think 2 or 3 of our ladies who did not climb the podium in Spokane will make a major impact in the next few years.

Besides Kimmie, who else in the senior rank has any chance? Maybe Rachel Flatt? I'm not so impressed with her. She has triple+triple, but seems to me puberty monster won't be very kind to her judging by her appearance.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's all about jumps firstly. Kimmie has solid 3x3s most of the time. She has better than average spins. Her footwork has been intricate. What she doesn't have, unfortunately,is the ability to sell these elements. Neither could Miki until this past season in SA and Worlds.

Lori is trying to make her a Kwan clone. Impossible. Kwan knew how to sell whatever she could do even in the crippling years. Hopefully Kimmie can get the chance to do a variety of routines during COI and is coached privately on how to sell the elements. Kimmie is a good skater but she's not a little dahling.

Joe