US Olympic Team Announced | Page 24 | Golden Skate

US Olympic Team Announced

The men were really the highlight of the whole competition.

Other than a very few programs in other disciplines, the event was boring and fairly predictable.
Predictable, yes. However, I didn't find the pairs or ice dancers ( really as a group the strongest of any country in the World) to be boring. The pairs SP and the ice dance FD were both incredibly events! People do gravitate to controversial things though and this decision was, certainly, that.
 
Predictable, yes. However, I didn't find the pairs or ice dancers ( really as a group the strongest of any country in the World) to be boring. The pairs SP and the ice dance FD were both incredibly events! People do gravitate to controversial things though and this decision was, certainly, that.
We could only see men and women outside US, Levito and Wang were ineligible, Lui had to WD, Thoringren didn't score like 240 points, so that impacts heightened interest toward men.
 
Then it would make more sense to have him skate at the Olympics and Jason at Worlds, since the placement (outside the medals) at the Olympics doesn't matter, but the Worlds placement does.
The selection criteria specifically applied to Olympic selection. Malinin winning silver did probably guarantee him a World's spot, (Calalang/ Johnson aren't so lucky though... They get no assignments despite their silver medal) but not an Olympic spot.
 
Luckily for me, I could watch everything - both Canadian's and the US Nationals. That's never happened before (usually there are limits when you're in Europe), so I was pretty pleased. It did cost me my weekend nights though, because of the time difference! And I agree that the Pairs and ID events at US Nationals were just great. Not boring at all! Granted, I didn't watch the women - neither at Canadian's nor at US Nationals - but they're my least favourite discipline so could be skipped. And then men....I really enjoyed the competitions both at Canadian's and at US Nationals. But I liked watching Pairs even more. Just a pity there were relatively few couples in both competitions.
 
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The selection criteria specifically applied to Olympic selection. Malinin winning silver did probably guarantee him a World's spot, (Calalang/ Johnson aren't so lucky though... They get no assignments despite their silver medal) but not an Olympic spot.
Did people argue this much when the criteria were made public? I can’t remember.
 
Luckily for me, I could watch everything - both Canadian's and the US Nationals. That's never happened before (usually there are limits when you're in Europe), so I was pretty pleased. It did cost me my weekend nights though, because of the time difference! And I agree that the Pairs and ID events at US Nationals were just great. Not boring at all! Granted, I didn't watch the women - neither at Canadian's nor at US Nationals - but they're my least favourite discipline so could be skipped. And then men....I really enjoyed the competitions both at Canadian's and at US Nationals. But I liked watching Pairs even more. Just a pity there relatively few couples in both competitions.
Were the pairs at Canadians as depleted as the ones in the US? We had 33% of our US pairs withdraw.
 
Then it would make more sense to have him skate at the Olympics and Jason at Worlds, since the placement (outside the medals) at the Olympics doesn't matter, but the Worlds placement does.
That wasn’t an option if the stated criteria were applied.
 
If he had won Nationals, he would still be Priority Group 3. Camden was not in a priority group.

Criteria were published September 9, 2021 I believe.

So the criteria was chosen and published 4 months ago,

Did someone like Malinin ever have a chance to beat Jason on criteria this fall?
I mean, You're saying he could've won Nationals (One of the hardest mens events this season so far)
And still not meet their demands
 
... Also: How does a skater earn assignments to senior events? Or junior events, for that matter. Could someone say, "Hey, I'm entering Cranberry" and they're in? Of course I know there are selection procedures for major events and rules for the GP series, but what about Challengers and Senior B events? Who decides the rosters for those, and who funds the expenses?

...Anyone can (for the most part) enter Cranberry. SCOB reserves the right to decide if a skater would be a better fit for the Cup instead of the International. I’m not sure if they used that at all or not. I think they would use it if there were “too many” entries. ..

FWIW, regarding non-Challenger Senior Bs:

The family of a U.S. entry in 2017 Philadelphia International told me that the skater needed USFS approval to enter.

Given that Cranberry Cup (the international competition) is a Senior B like Philadelphia International, it would seem likely to me (although I do not know for sure) that USFS also would need to approve Cranberry Cup entries?

I get that if too many skaters make requests to enter Cranberry Cup, then some would be turned down and steered toward Cranberry Open (the club competition).​

For senior Bs and summer comps, I believe a skater needs fed approval. The fed may even say, "We approving you for this one". I cannot imagine USFS withholding the approval from Ilia.

You are referring to summer international competitions (summer non-Challenger Senior Bs), right?

Anyway, as a general comment (regarding any skater in any season):
I can imagine USFS withholding approval for a Senior B if USFS does not feel sure that a skater is ready for senior.​



In the past, the criteria were not disclosed ahead of time. (that I know of. If they were, please link them because I’d like to have a look.) ...

The USFS selection criteria for 2018 Olympics most definitely were published in advance!
I do not have the link to the full document at my fingertips -- plus IIRC, the link now is dead anyway.

Same for 2014 Olympics, IIRC -- or at least the public and media had access in advance to a USFS summary of the criteria.
(The skaters obviously received full information in advance.)

I do remember very clearly that *before* 2014 Nats, GS had some discussion of the 2014 criteria. Not a ton of discussion, but some. And then there was a ton of discussion after USFS selected Ashley in 2014.
Before 2018 Nats, GS had plenty of discussion of the 2018 criteria. And then plenty more after USFS selected Adam.

(I am not going to hunt through GS archives to find examples of the discussions related to 2014 and 2018, but I assure you that they did happen.)



... what about Challengers and Senior B events? Who decides the rosters for those, and who funds the expenses?

Skaters *always* pay their own expenses. USFS may give them a certain amount, but the skater is the one who decides how to allocate that money. ...

For Challengers, I feel 99% sure that USFS pays most or all expenses for skaters: entry fees + travel for skaters, lodging for skaters, meals for skaters.

... Skaters pay for their coaches to travel and stay.

(y)



As for 2022 selection of U.S. men:

My guess would be that the USFS committee was not unanimously in favor of Jason, although obviously the overall decision was in favor of Jason.
In other words, I would guess that in some cases, individual committee members applying the criteria concluded that Ilia should be selected.

FWIW, my own opinion is that the selection of Jason was not "wrong" -- but I do not think that selection of Ilia would have been "wrong" either.​
 
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Did people argue this much when the criteria were made public? I can’t remember.
The very consistent @TontoK was not happy with it. For the reasons he also expressed in this thread. Respect to him for his consistent view. I don't remember anyone else being upset. Some of us weren't thrilled that last year's results had such an influence but that's all I recall.
So the criteria was chosen and published 4 months ago,

Did someone like Malinin ever have a chance to beat Jason on criteria this fall?
I mean, You're saying he could've won Nationals (One of the hardest mens events this season so far)
And still not meet their demands
It would have been difficult but not impossible. He would have needed to commit to competing Senior and won the skate off for the Skate America spot. Then, he would have needed to show consistency ( something he didn't demonstrate in his one Senior event or JGPs). A big ask for a young and inconsistent skater.
 
So the criteria was chosen and published 4 months ago,

Did someone like Malinin ever have a chance to beat Jason on criteria this fall?
I mean, You're saying he could've won Nationals (One of the hardest mens events this season so far)
And still not meet their demands
Yes, the expectation here apparently is that he should have gone back in time and cancelled his entry into junior events (as be began his JPG season in August) and sought senior assignments. And he should have known that the margin of his finish ahead of the others wouldn't matter, as him winning would still likely have resulted of him getting left off had Nathan, Vincent, or Jason finished in 5th.
 
It would have been difficult but not impossible. He would have needed to commit to competing Senior and won the skate off for the Skate America spot. Then, he would have needed to show consistency ( something he didn't demonstrate in his one Senior event or JGPs). A big ask for a young and inconsistent skater.

So the moment they assigned him (Or he decided) To the Junior GP, and didn't try for SA
They basically gave up his Olympic spot, Is that what you're suggesting?

Why on earth would anyone choose this strategy for him if that's correct?
 
Luckily for me, I could watch everything - both Canadian's and the US Nationals. That's never happened before (usually there are limits when you're in Europe), so I was pretty pleased. It did cost me my weekend nights though, because of the time difference! And I agree that the Pairs and ID events at US Nationals were just great. Not boring at all! Granted, I didn't watch the women - neither at Canadian's nor at US Nationals - but they're my least favourite discipline so could be skipped. And then men....I really enjoyed the competitions both at Canadian's and at US Nationals. But I liked watching Pairs even more. Just a pity there relatively few couples in both competitions.
Women's skating is currently my least favorite, too. The women's event at US nationals was pleasant enough but I wouldn't lose sleep for it. Pairs and ice dance were amazing as was the men's SP. The top 7 skaters were incredible with their own unique strengths. I enjoyed both American and Canadian nationals more than I expected to.
 
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So the moment they assigned him (Or he decided) To the Junior GP, and didn't try for SA
They basically gave up his Olympic spot, Is that what you're suggesting?

Why on earth would anyone choose this strategy if that's correct?
No clue. But, I imagine they didn't think he was consistent enough to actually challenge for a spot or they didn't bother reading the criteria? I'm not his parents or Raf.
 
No clue. But, I imagine they didn't think he was consistent enough to actually challenge for a spot or they didn't bother reading the criteria? I'm not his parents or Raf.

So by that theory it's either that Raf didn't know or care enough, Or they had no faith in him (Which I doubt)
Or the Criteria argument is not as solid as some people here are trying to make it seem,
And it was just an element (A legitimate element, because they wrote it and gave it legitimacy in September)
that was brought up to back choosing Jason in this occurrence, Because that's the choice they actually wanted to make,
And maybe in a different situation they wouldn't have used it, Or used a different argument.
 
The very consistent @TontoK was not happy with it. For the reasons he also expressed in this thread. Respect to him for his consistent view. I don't remember anyone else being upset. Some of us weren't thrilled that last year's results had such an influence but that's all I recall.

Respect sent right back to you.

And, for that matter, respect sent to everyone who has argued spiritedly, but not mean-spiritedly, for their point of view.

The decision has been made. Team USA is named. I wish all of them the very best.
 
So by that theory it's either that Raf didn't know or care enough, Or they had no faith in him (Which I doubt)
Or the Criteria argument is not as solid as some people here are trying to make it seem,
And it was just an element (A legitimate element, because they wrote it and gave it legitimacy in September)
that was brought up to back choosing Jason in this occurrence, Because that's the choice they actually wanted to make,
And maybe in a different situation they wouldn't have used it, Or used a different argument.
That's a very unique theory not supported by any evidence that I can see but if it makes you happy by all means believe it. ;) I would say that the way the US consistently applied this criteria through all disciplines suggested most, if not all, members took it quite seriously. A pair team and a woman were both selected based on their priority group and BOW despite not competing a full event at Nationals.

I do agree that they should have published the criteria even earlier to allow coaches and skaters to properly plan for the season. June would have been better than September.
 
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