US Olympic Team Announced

[Mista Ekko]

Of course.
Jason won the free skate over Vincent by 11 points also, at Nationals. A Vincent who did not have one UR called.

Jason did triumph on that FS, But they both were given gifts from the judges,
if anything Ilia's gap from both of them might've been 10 points bigger elsewhere,
Their gap from each other not as much

But again, in a field of 6-10 points if you're looking at possibilities and odds
going with Jason over Vincent makes no sense

 

[Tavi...]

I only suggested that even when Vincent kinda implodes, it still scores around what Jason does when he's decent
So I don't think there's much to consider, The mission is to assume Kolyada, Jin and Uno\Kagyima are going to
compete well (in the FS) and try to beat them and steal their points somehow.

I wouldn't consider Vincent in the SP instead of Nathan, Also due to the proximity of the mens event

As I said, you’re entitled to your opinion. But I look at things differently. For one thing, your assessment is based on the assumption that all TE competitors including Vincent- but excluding Jason - will be at their best. But Kolyada and Jin have been quite inconsistent. For another, although Vincent at his best is capable of outscoring Jason, he appears to have peaked at Skate America and Jason hasn’t yet peaked yet this season. Finally, most of Vincent’s FS jumps at Nats didn’t look clean, but his under rotations went uncalled. If I were on the selection committee for the TE that’s another thing I’d consider, bc it’s unlikely calling at the Olympics will be quite so generous. Again, I don’t really care who is selected for the TE, but I don’t really agree with your logic or your willingness to minimize what happened to Vincent in the SP at Worlds and the FS at NHK and Nats. .

 

[YuBluByMe]

We could argue for the next four years, but I personally think the decision has been made when they compared the median scores.
Jason 262, Ilia 222. That's why, I think, shortly after the medal ceremony was over the team was already officially chosen. Jason found out after the ceremony when he was still at doping, almost two hours before we, fans, found out.

Oh really? What was taking so long then? I doubt very much that the team was already chosen right after Nationals. Something was being hotly discussed. This actually suggests that the real conversation behind closed doors was Zhou versus Malinin. I myself think the team should be Chen-Malinin-Brown and that definitely should be hotly discussed because you can’t leave a podium contender off the team and it makes the team event more complicated as you shouldn’t be using Malinin or Brown for the team event.

This isn’t directed at you, but an awful lot of posters are accusing others of not reading the criteria. No, a lot of the people that think Malinin should be on the team DID read the criteria, myself included. It’s just that the we thought the criteria wasn’t as simple 1+2=3=SELECTED. A lot of people seem to have interpreted it that way. I, and a lot of other people, interpreted it as 1+2=3=PRIORITY. The first interpretation is incredibly short-sighted which is why a hole was dug when an extenuating circumstance occurred.

 

[kan01]

Oh really? What was taking so long then? I doubt very much that the team was already chosen right after Nationals. Something was being hotly discussed. This actually suggests that the real conversation behind closed doors was Zhou versus Malinin. I myself think the team should be Chen-Malinin-Brown and that definitely should be hotly discussed because you can’t leave a podium contender off the team and it makes the team event more complicated as you shouldn’t be using Malinin or Brown for the team event.

This isn’t directed at you, but an awful lot of posters are accusing others of not reading the criteria. No, a lot of the people that think Malinin should be on the team DID read the criteria, myself included. It’s just that the we thought the criteria wasn’t as simple 1+2=3=SELECTED. A lot of people seem to have interpreted it that way. I, and a lot of other people, interpreted it as 1+2=3=PRIORITY. The first interpretation is incredibly short-sighted which is why a hole was dug when an extenuating circumstance occurred.

Well, Jason said he received the confirmation email when he was at doping, right after the awards... Maybe it took a good 30 minutes after the last score, I don't know...

 

[Mista Ekko]

As I said, you’re entitled to your opinion. But I look at things differently. For one thing, your assessment is based on the assumption that all TE competitors including Vincent- but excluding Jason - will be at their best. But Kolyada and Jin have been quite inconsistent. For another, although Vincent at his best is capable of outscoring Jason, he appears to have peaked at Skate America and Jason hasn’t yet peaked yet this season. Finally, most of Vincent’s FS jumps at Nats didn’t look clean, but his under rotations went uncalled. If I were on the selection committee for the TE that’s another thing I’d consider, bc it’s unlikely calling at the Olympics will be quite so generous. Again, I don’t really care who is selected for the TE, but I don’t really agree with your logic or your willingness to minimize what happened to Vincent in the SP at Worlds and the FS at NHK and Nats. .

I don't assume the other competitors will be clean (Personally I assume Kolyada won't be, Jin might surprise at home)
I'm not sure why there's a need to put words in my keyboard , What I'm saying is it increases your odds
to assume that whoever you chose could beat them if they do go clean,
You have to use those methods when you're betting on something like skating were anything could happen on ice that day,
Jason could even win the thing in some multiverse, 4 years ago Bychenko came in 2nd in the SP over Chen and Kolyada.

I don't see what there is to disagree about the minimisation of the worlds SP,
If Vincent skated that short program in a field of 5 contestants he would still get 6 points,
(Or even 7 if Sadovsky is there and has issues), The fact that he came 25th is irrelevant to this specific decision.

I admit I haven't gone through the protocols to see exactly how much rotation slack Vincent was given,
But I have been hearing people say that Jason's Quad and Axel weren't called either.

 

[bekalc]

I don't assume the other competitors will be clean (Personally I assume Kolyada won't be, Jin might surprise at home)
I'm not sure why there's a need to put words in my keyboard , What I'm saying is it increases your odds
to assume that whoever you chose could beat them if they do go clean,
You have to use those methods when you're betting on something like skating were anything could happen on ice that day,
Jason could even win the thing in some multiverse, 4 years ago Bychenko came in 2nd in the SP over Chen and Kolyada.

I don't see what there is to disagree about the minimisation of the worlds SP,
If Vincent skated that short program in a field of 5 contestants he would still get 6 points,
(Or even 7 if Sadovsky is there and has issues), The fact that he came 25th is irrelevant to this specific decision.

I admit I haven't gone through the protocols to see exactly how much rotation slack Vincent was given,
But I have been hearing people say that Jason's Quad and Axel weren't called either.

You cannot assume people will go clean but it’s not a good idea to assume they will fall either.

Who says Russia for example will use Michail. They could go with one of their young guns who are capable of jumping ahead of Jason.

I think it would be a mistake to use Jason in the short and in the long. But the short could be disasterous

A strategy of hoping others fall isn’t a good one. In the short they go clean The Japanese man, the Russian men, Chinas and Keegan are all capable of beating him.

 

[Mista Ekko]

A strategy of hoping others fall isn’t a good one. In the short they go clean The Japanese man, the Russian men, Chinas and Keegan are all capable of beating him.

USA, Japan and Russia should select their man to the SP very carefully,

That is the one event that you don't want someone to fall apart
because there are a lot of people capable scoring close to the 90 mark if they're on form.

Italy, Canada, China, Czech Republic and Georgia are all possibly coming at the dude
who would dare have a bad SP and score 80 points, If that happens to Kolyada
and there's problems in Ice Dance that's probably the only way Russia loses Gold,
For the US or Japan, That could possibly lose them the podium.

 

[YuBluByMe]

I admit I haven't gone through the protocols to see exactly how much rotation slack Vincent was given,
But I have been hearing people say that Jason's Quad and Axel weren't called either.

Even I complained about it as it affected a lot of things. I had him at about 155 and he scored a 177 so he was overscored by 20 points, which is outrageous. This is significant because he skated after Pulkinen and before Malinin. Another reason why I am so annoyed by their choice. Although it's almost amusing, considering the irony.

 

[Tavi...]

I don't assume the other competitors will be clean (Personally I assume they won't be)
I'm not sure why there's a need to put words in my keyboard, What I'm saying is it is
risk minimisation and increasing odds to assume that whoever you chose could beat them
if they do go clean, You have to use those methods when your betting on something like skating
were anything could happen on ice that day

I admit I haven't gone through the protocols to see exactly how much rotation slack Vincent was given,
But I have been hearing people say that Jason's Quad and Axel weren't called either

Actually, I’m not putting words in your mouth or keyboard. You said:

“The mission is to assume Kolyada, Jin and Uno\Kagyima are going to
compete well (in the FS)…”

You also said:

“…even when Vincent kinda implodes, it still scores around what Jason does when he's decent.”

Regardless of what you meant, those statements suggest to me that you expect everyone except Jason to compete well, and better than Jason.

I absolutely agree with you that strategizing and minimizing risk is important; I just disagree with your conclusions. Vincent has had very subpar free skates in both of his last two competitions. At NHK he scored 161. That’s lower than Jason’s lowest FS score this season - and Jason has been playing catch up and recovering from an injury (fracture) that kept him off ice for two months this summer.

Regarding protocols: Jason’s quad was called q and he got minus 5 across the board (well, one 4). He also had a level 2 spin. His 3A was not called, but his PCS was relatively lower than in his SP (96 v 49) due to the errors.

Regarding Vincent, I really don’t want to say anything that could be construed as bashing him, bc that’s not my intent at all. Suffice it to say that in my opinion the protocol doesn’t reflect what he put out on the ice, not by a long shot. You may disagree, but that’s my take.

 

[bekalc]

The issue is assuming that Jason will necessarily skate poorly but assuming everyone else will skate poorly.

The issue here is that there are a quite a few men who Will beat Jason if they skate well.

There are only so many PCs that can be given. Jason’s fate isn’t in his own hands. The Euro short program results are in and they illustrate my point.

Frankly as well the US has less room for error they need the men to do really well. They really should use Chen and Zhou.

I mean Russia has pairs and ladies to hold them up. Japan may outscore 3 events

 

[Mista Ekko]

Actually, I’m not putting words in your mouth or keyboard. You said:

“The mission is to assume Kolyada, Jin and Uno\Kagyima are going to
compete well (in the FS)…”

Exactly, And that's not what you implied I said,
It means that when you're trying to play to the odds, you need to assume that,
Not that I think it'll necessarily happen

Thanks for understanding

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Malinin who with 6 quads! only managed to beat a Brown, with a q and a fall on his only quad, by 12 points overall at Nationals

So we should go with the skater who lost by 12 points and didn't even get a medal then. Got it.

 

[mskater93]

So we should go with the skater who lost by 12 points and didn't even get a medal then. Got it.

Pulkinen wasn't named to the Olympic team. If you are referring to Brown, he DID receive a medal, so....?

 

[Amei]

Malinin who with 6 quads! only managed to beat a Brown, with a q and a fall on his only quad, by 12 points overall at Nationals.

Jason is a fed favorite and Nationals scoring is usually generous to favorites, Jason was given multiple 10s in PCS for a program with a serious error in the fall. Now Nationals is not required to follow ISU rules but had this happened at an international event or an event respecting the ISU scoring rules, Ilia would have beat Jason by more points

 

[el henry]

So we should go with the skater who lost by 12 points and didn't even get a medal then. Got it.

Rather than the one who doesn't even have World minimums because he bombed an SP at a low level senior comp so badly.

Got it.

 

[moonvine]

I don't assume the other competitors will be clean (Personally I assume Kolyada won't be, Jin might surprise at home)
I'm not sure why there's a need to put words in my keyboard , What I'm saying is it increases your odds
to assume that whoever you chose could beat them if they do go clean,
You have to use those methods when you're betting on something like skating were anything could happen on ice that day,
Jason could even win the thing in some multiverse, 4 years ago Bychenko came in 2nd in the SP over Chen and Kolyada.

I don't see what there is to disagree about the minimisation of the worlds SP,
If Vincent skated that short program in a field of 5 contestants he would still get 6 points,
(Or even 7 if Sadovsky is there and has issues), The fact that he came 25th is irrelevant to this specific decision.

I admit I haven't gone through the protocols to see exactly how much rotation slack Vincent was given,
But I have been hearing people say that Jason's Quad and Axel weren't called either.

It doesn’t even have to be a multiverse. I’m quite prepared to see a podium that we would expect. I’m also quite prepared to see a podium of Messing Bychenko Amoyz. Or for US team to be Ma Malinin and Pulkanin. Literally 1/3 of US pairs including the #1 pair had to WD from US Nationals due to Covid. Can you imagine if this happens at the Olympics? It would be awful.

 

[moonvine]

Well, Jason said he received the confirmation email when he was at doping, right after the awards... Maybe it took a good 30 minutes after the last score, I don't know...

Wow. They send email now? Adam said he at least got a text.

 

[el henry]

Oh really? What was taking so long then? I doubt very much that the team was already chosen right after Nationals. Something was being hotly discussed. ...

Wow. They send email now? Adam said he at least got a text.

I don't want to link to a "regular person's" Twitter, but the account shows a screen grab from when Jason was on the Today show. He showed the email his phone saying "Congratulations on your nomination" and "Please keep it confidential until we announce at 5:45". The addresses were blurred out, but time stamp was visible, and it was 4:15. That time only makes sense in Central Standard Time.

They had previously said they were announcing at 5:45, so that part makes sense.

 

[moonvine]

I don't want to link to a "regular person's" Twitter, but the account shows a screen grab from when Jason was on the Today show. He showed the email his phone saying "Congratulations on your nomination" and "Please keep it confidential until we announce at 5:45". The addresses were blurred out, but time stamp was visible, and it was 4:15. That time only makes sense in Central Standard Time.

They had previously said they were announcing at 5:45, so that part makes sense.

I can’t even. What if your email got filtered into spam?

 

[el henry]

I can’t even. What if your email got filtered into spam?

I know. I also believe Jason said in 2014 his notification then was text, so maybe they did both.

Although I highly doubt Jason's spam filter would stop USFS mail. But you never know.