US Olympic Team Announced

[eterialskating]

Rather than the one who doesn't even have World minimums because he bombed an SP at a low level senior comp so badly.

Got it.

Oh sure continue beating that dead horse as if it's gonna make Brown any closer to accomplishing anything noteworthy besides wasting space. I'm pretty sure the PR savvy US team are already preparing him for the Team event so he can piggyback on others results so he could receive another underserved medal.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Rather than the one who doesn't even have World minimums because he bombed an SP at a low level senior comp so badly.

Got it.

Well, having the worlds minimum is not part of what is considered for Olympic selection. What is? "Domestic placement and scores at the 2021 and 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships will also be taken into consideration." You people refuse to belive that Nationals is used for anything else than for assigning skaters to tiers. The scores and the placements matter.

 

[Amei]

The "poor excuse for a top athlete" has regularly medaled this season in all his comps. This year this "poor excuse for a top athlete" has finished ahead of Kolyada, Semenenko, Kvistashvili, Messing, Aymoz, Mozalev, Vasiljevs, Ignatov, Samarin, (well, I'm tired of typing all the names).

The skaters he has outscored are top athletes and so is he.

I don't follow the ladies and they are completely irrelevant to any selection to the US mens team.

Jason is dependent on skaters with more difficult technical content having errors, fortunately for him the names you have listed have been inconsistent. Ilia, perhaps with a little assistance of Fed backing for the PCS (like all skaters) would not be dependent on other skaters having problems for him to have a great placement. I think there is something to be said for sending someone who can place well based on their own skate and not be dependent on other skater(s) messing up.

 

[el henry]

Well, having the worlds minimum is not part of what is considered for Olympic selection. What is? "Domestic placement and scores at the 2021 and 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships will also be taken into consideration." You people refuse to belive that Nationals is used for anything else than for assign skaters to tiers. The scores and the placements matter.

"Us people" understand that Nats placement matters. But also that one great comp, even at Nats, doesn't mean you're assigned to the Olympic team.

I am really trying hard to understand why that is difficult to understand.

And I've said it before, I'll say it again. I have been cheering for and watching Ilia since he was 14. I believe I have more of a sense of Ilia's talents and trajectories than many people, including some who have only seen him for the first time at Nats (I am not saying you).

Jason fulfilled more of the criteria than Ilia and he was chosen. Those are not the ravings of an unhinged Jason fan who hates Ilia, but my considered opinion. Losing to Ilya *once* in one comp is not how USFS does it.

Should they do another way? That's another question.

 

[el henry]

Jason is dependent on skaters with more difficult technical content having errors, fortunately for him the names you have listed have been inconsistent. Ilia, perhaps with a little assistance of Fed backing for the PCS (like all skaters) would not be dependent on other skaters having problems for him to have a great placement. I think there is something to be said for sending someone who can place well based on their own skate and not be dependent on other skater(s) messing up.

Absolutely, what one brings *to the ice* and in a comp is the most important part of figure skating.

How many jumps landed in any one particular comp, meh. BVs, meh. Otherwise, why take the ice? Just tote up the planned content sheet and call it a night. What makes it a sport is the fact that anything can happen in any one particular comp.

I've talked more about the US junior men than almost anyone on the Board, I'll wager. I know Ilia. I am a big fan of Jason. I know Jason. In my subjective opinion, his higher international floor will serve the US Olympic team better than Ilia's high domestic ceiling.

And in my reading of the criteria, Jason fulfilled more.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Losing to Ilya *once* in one comp is not how USFS does it.

It's not only "losing to Ilya once". They've only met once. It's the youngster's trajectory in scores (which is considered), the Nationals placement (which is considered), the Nationals score which Jason has never come close to achieving (which is considered). Certainly Jason is ahead in other criteria. But the argument here that the committee's hands were tied and they had to pick Jason based on the criteria is false. It could have gone either way based on the selection criteria.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Goodness I finally got around to watching Malinin's skates

So, what you're saying is, you've been here arguing this entire time without having actually watched any of the skated you're arguing about?

Tell me we should ignore everything you have to say on this topic in one post or less...

 

[bekalc]

Absolutely, what one brings *to the ice* and in a comp is the most important part of figure skating.

How many jumps landed in any one particular comp, meh. BVs, meh. Otherwise, why take the ice? Just tote up the planned content sheet and call it a night. What makes it a sport is the fact that anything can happen in any one particular comp.

I've talked more about the US junior men than almost anyone on the Board, I'll wager. I know Ilia. I am a big fan of Jason. I know Jason. In my subjective opinion, his higher international floor will serve the US Olympic team better than Ilia's high domestic ceiling.

And in my reading of the criteria, Jason fulfilled more.

Jason hasn’t once beaten Ilia. Their results Sunday were not close and Jason skated well

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Don't disagree with you about the hate. The way Vincent is talked about online makes me want to hug him for a long time and tell him he is special and deserving. Also, he should be on the Olympic team based on the criteria set out, no question. However, you know as well as I do that Vincent should have been 4th. Did he rotate more than 2 jumps in the LP? It didn't look like it to me.

Yup, I totally agree that Zhou should have been 4th with proper tech calling. But given he did 5 quads to Browns zero quads, and all else considered, it's not the most egregious result for him to edge out Brown. Brown's PCS was also pretty sky high which kept him in top 3 contention, and some favourable tech/GOE calls for him too.

I know others disagree, but a quadless SP getting 49 PCS isn't right. Then again, Kamila's quad-filled FS getting 79 PCS wasn't right either.

Yes, nobody can do the Sinnerman SP other than Brown, but he has zero quads to two quads by Chen/Zhou/Malinin, so there is a stark difference in difficulty. I know people want to give Brown all the PCS and hold down his quadding rivals to make up for this deficiency but IMO a short program with 0 quads, no matter how intricate it is, is not on par with a program that has 2 quads (let alone quad lutzes). Chen literally did the same jump layout as Brown but added an extra rotation to the flip and the lutz.

If most skaters did 3Z+2T, 3F, 2A, and then one did 2Z+2T, 2F, 2A, there would be no question the latter would be buried not just technically but artistically as well for a performance that featured comparatively easier jumps.

 

[moonvine]

Jason hasn’t once beaten Ilia. Their results Sunday were not close and Jason skated well

They've only skated against each other once. Know who has beaten Ilia? The #11 Japanese man.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I know others disagree, but a quadless SP getting 49 PCS isn't right.

The code of points disagrees.

Seriously, show me where in the component tables it lists quads as one of the component factors? A quadless SP getting 50PCS is absolutely right if it's a 50PCS SP. A SP with only 2A and 3-2 getting 50PCS is absolutely right if it's a 50PCS SP. That's literally the whole point of PCS, it doesn't measure the elements, and certainly not a single element type out of three, it measures everything else about the skate.

But I guess by your thinking no ice dance team should ever get component scores above 5 per category. After all, they don't jump quads.

 

[el henry]

Yup, I totally agree that Zhou should have been 4th with proper tech calling. But given he did 5 quads to Browns zero quads, and all else considered, it's not the most egregious result for him to edge out Brown. Brown's PCS was also pretty sky high which kept him in top 3 contention, and some favourable tech/GOE calls for him too.

I know others disagree, but a quadless SP getting 49 PCS isn't right. Then again, Kamila's quad-filled FS getting 79 PCS wasn't right either.

Yes, nobody can do the Sinnerman SP other than Brown, but he has zero quads to two quads by Chen/Zhou/Malinin, so there is a stark difference in difficulty. I know people want to give Brown all the PCS and hold down his quadding rivals to make up for this deficiency but IMO a short program with 0 quads, no matter how intricate it is, is not on par with a program that has 2 quads.

Sinnerman may not score as much as a program with two landed quads, for sure. Two landed quads. Again, what skaters bring to the ice, not a battle of the planned content sheets.

Subjectively, I would go with the higher international floor (Jason) as opposed to the higher domestic ceiling (Ilia). Has nothing to do with what I "want" but how I evaluate sports of any kind.

Jumping off, I do have to say, I am wondering how many posters actually watched any of Ilia's comps this year other than Nats?
Can anyone tell me, without Googling, what his previous programs were?
What element(s) has he improved tremendously in the past year?
Which skaters finished ahead of him at Cup of Austria?
Have you seen both their skates and Ilia's skates in November? (By which I mean, did you watch "then*, not now).
How did he finish in his junior comps? Who finished ahead of him? Did you watch those skates within a day or two of their completion?

I am basing my evaluation on all these factors. But, I'm not going to convince anyone at this point. I just want to put it out there that it not unreasoning Jason stans who are offering these conclusions.

 

[el henry]

Also, although even I cannot post all day, there is another thread

Why wasn't Malinin selected for the Olympics?

The entire argument is this one great skate at nationals and we are supposed to trust this will all work out in the team event. When the last event he bombed the short program so bad he couldn’t even get minimums for WC and had multiple < in his free. It is not “preference for Brown”, it is his...

www.goldenskate.com

which is specifically geared to this issue. I don't know if anyone is coming here for the rest of the US team or not.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

They've only skated against each other once. Know who has beaten Ilia? The #11 Japanese man.

Yikes, that makes Jason losing to Ilya decisively sound even worse.

 

[treblemakerem]

Goodness I finally got around to watching Malinin's skates and it's even more astonishing and scandalous how the US manage to even consider anything but Malinin to the Olympics. Flawless jumping and very good ss. He's like Kolyada if Misha had better jumps and been more confident. Instead of sending a top class and quality men's skater they send this poor excuse of a "top athlete" that wouldn't even podium in the ladies event.

Unfortunately his consistency is also similar to Kolyada.

 

[el henry]

Yikes, that makes Jason losing to Ilya decisively sound even worse.

No, it makes the case clearer for those of us who watched the Cup of Austria in real time why Jason should be chosen for the Olympic team.

Jason decisively scores ahead of Sota Yamamoto. Sota Yamamoto finishes ahead of Lucas T. Honda. Whom Ilia Malinin can't outscore.

If the Nats drum can be beaten, so can the Cup of Austria drum.

And yes I lied about leaving, but I thought the trajectory might be of interest to some folks. Now I log off.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

No, it makes the case clearer for those of us who watched the Cup of Austria in real time why Jason should be chosen for the Olympic team.

Jason decisively scores ahead of Sota Yamamoto. Sota Yamamoto finishes ahead of Lucas T. Honda. Who Ilia Malinin can't outscore.

I wasn't aware the USFSA included Sota and Lucas's results in the selection criteria, but if you Jason fans say so it must be the case.

 

[dorispulaski]

I watched Ilya Malinin's Cup of Austria performance back when it occurred. It was as painful as Nathan Chen's Olympic SP's

Malinin also got soundly beaten in the SP and more narrowly in the FS by Nika Egadze of Georgia, who just failed to qualify for the FS at Europeans.

This does not say Ilya is a bad skater- it says he is an inconsistent skater, as is Nika.

But it does throw some light on how his scores trend

 

[b-man]

If they want to be selected to the senior Olympic team then yes they need to have experience skating as a senior. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Ha Ha Polina?

 

[YuBluByMe]

Jumping off, I do have to say, I am wondering how many posters actually watched any of Ilia's comps this year other than Nats?
Can anyone tell me, without Googling, what his previous programs were?
What element(s) has he improved tremendously in the past year?
Which skaters finished ahead of him at Cup of Austria?
Have you seen both their skates and Ilia's skates in November? (By which I mean, did you watch "then*, not now).
How did he finish in his junior comps? Who finished ahead of him? Did you watch those skates within a day or two of their completion?

These sort of assumptions are aggravating. Because as a matter of fact, I have watched Malinin before this weekend. The first time I saw him was at 2020 Junior Worlds, nearly two years ago. Second time was Skate America. It's why I'm aware of how much he's improved in such a short time. In fact, the only competition I haven't watched with him in it was Cup of Austria. If that's the competition with the scores written on a napkin, then I only caught the women's free skate. I can't be the only one so I don't know why you've made this assumption.