US Olympic Team Announced

[mskater93]

I can't help but think that US Figure Skating may actually be trying to find a better method of managing the transition from Junior to Senior by (in this case) leaving Ilya off the team and taking some pressure off him by not having his major event Senior debut be the Olympics. IMO (which is never humble), many of the issues revolving around the women in the US right now are from "next big thing" syndrome where the federation is hyping and pushing promising ladies in Juniors before they ever make a splash in Seniors. I would say of the top of my head, the following transitions were poorly managed by the fed/coaches/parents (going back to the 1990's): Deanna Stellato, Jenny Kirk, Sasha Cohen, Katie Taylor, Kimmie Meisner, AP McDonough, Naomi Nari Nam, Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Ashley Wager, Gracie Gold, Polina Edmunds (who seemed to peak at 2014 Nationals, was sent to the Olympics over Mirai Nagasu and who never really seemed to reach what I think was her full potential), and Alyssa Liu. There are probably more that I just don't immediately recall.

 

[soccerjc77]

What if USFS have made the mistake of their life because it could happen that Ilia win the Olympic.

Just thinking of a junior skater who win Olympic. = Alina Zagitova.

Maybe Ilia would have be like Alina Zagitova at the Olympic and win there !

I continue to think that's a mistake to have put out Ilia off the team in the Olympic. I'm very sad for him.

 

[moonvine]

Yet, he's so far advanced of Jason. He has both technological and performance skills. Jason is beautiful, but he has the luxury of being that way because he is not trying to put the more difficult jumps into his programs.

Ilya’s performance skills are not in the same zip code as any of the top men. And Internationally, rightly or wrongly, he won’t get the PCS of any of the top men.

 

[moonvine]

What if USFS have made the mistake of their life because it could happen that Ilia win the Olympic.

Just thinking of a junior skater who win Olympic. = Alina Zagitova.

Maybe Ilia would have be like Alina Zagitova at the Olympic and win there !

I continue to think that's a mistake to have put out Ilia off the team in the Olympic. I'm very sad for him.

If all the top US men, Russian men, and Japanese men don’t come. Ilya could win the Olympics. Also Keegan Messing, Deniss Vasiļjevs. Jimmy Ma, many other skaters could win the Olympics.

 

[el henry]

If all the top US men, Russian men, and Japanese men don’t come. Ilya could win the Olympics. Also Keegan Messing, Deniss Vasiļjevs. Jimmy Ma, many other skaters could win the Olympics.

I like Ilia. Actually, we both saw Ilia 2 1/2 years ago, didn't we? (I did I don't remember if you watched junior men) We knew Ilia before Ilia was cool.

Any narrative that Ilia would displace Nathan, Yuzu, Shoma, Yuma and Vincent on the podium? Or that is he going to score higher in front of international judges than Yuzu, Shoma or Yuma? No. Not happening in a normal comp.

Maybe if there's a total splatfest, Ilia would have had a chance. And if there's a total splatfest, Jason has just as good a chance to medal as Ilia would have. So the choice is a wash

 

[twilight]

Absolutely not true. It is not a luxury, but incredibly hard work that Jason puts in to allow him to maximize every technical point and every performance point. Ilia is indeed "advanced" on Jason when it comes to one element of jumps.

Jason is far more than "beautiful", but an elite athlete. He simply has a different skill set than that of Ilia.

Yes, he is beautiful and skilled at what he does, but it is far easier to perfect your artistic performance when you're not also trying to complete harder level jumps at the same time. It's as simple as that.

 

[twilight]

Fully agree with this. I think it's a terrible decision that Ilia was left off the team but it is absolutely not fair to even suggest that Jason or Vincent should not accept their nomination.

Absolutely not true. It is not a luxury, but incredibly hard work that Jason puts in to allow him to maximize every technical point and every performance point. Ilia is indeed "advanced" on Jason when it comes to one element of jumps.

Jason is far more than "beautiful", but an elite athlete. He simply has a different skill set than that of Ilia.

Yes, but not a skill set that will medal at the Olympics.

 

[moonvine]

Yes, but not a skill set that will medal at the Olympics.

Neither will medal at the Olympics save Nathan, Vincent, all the top Japanese and all the top Russians not being there.

 

[onyxrose81]

So was Tara when she won the Olympics. She retired immediately. Anyway I said it was a small cynical part of me, I don’t believe that was the reason but it did cross my mind that keeping him from the Olympics may be financially better for US skating than letting him go and possibly do well.

As for whether he would medal/win, only two skaters have 300+ combined scores and one of them is in who knows what shape. Everybody else is equally like to splatfest as do well. If Nathan has a repeat of 2018 and everybody has has 1-2 falls over two programs, it is absolutely technically possible he could win, age and lack of experience notwithstanding. It’s silly to say it is difficult to imagine how someone with a four-five quad long program can win.

Tara couldn’t keep skating anyway because she didn’t even have a functioning hip so your point is moot.

 

[moonvine]

Tara couldn’t keep skating anyway because she didn’t even have a functioning hip so your point is moot.

And that is really sad.

 

[bekalc]

I can't help but think that US Figure Skating may actually be trying to find a better method of managing the transition from Junior to Senior by (in this case) leaving Ilya off the team and taking some pressure off him by not having his major event Senior debut be the Olympics. IMO (which is never humble), many of the issues revolving around the women in the US right now are from "next big thing" syndrome where the federation is hyping and pushing promising ladies in Juniors before they ever make a splash in Seniors. I would say of the top of my head, the following transitions were poorly managed by the fed/coaches/parents (going back to the 1990's): Deanna Stellato, Jenny Kirk, Sasha Cohen, Katie Taylor, Kimmie Meisner, AP McDonough, Naomi Nari Nam, Mirai Nagasu, Caroline Zhang, Ashley Wager, Gracie Gold, Polina Edmunds (who seemed to peak at 2014 Nationals, was sent to the Olympics over Mirai Nagasu and who never really seemed to reach what I think was her full potential), and Alyssa Liu. There are probably more that I just don't immediately recall.

They don’t have to do the hype.

But I actually think Sasha Cohen, Kimmie Meissner, Ashley Wagner turned out really well.

99.9 of skaters won’t ever end up on a world podium.

Gold and Nagasu had solid careers overall.

So what if Polina peaked people get injured to puberty happens it is what it is there.

I would point out that I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the girls you mentioned left just partly due to how hard it was to even make a world team.

Creating a scenario where even beating an established star at nationals won’t earn you a spot even if you score 300 that is so problematic. And demoralizing I am sure.


I think you can give young juniors an opportunities without putting the weight of the world on him.

This could have actually been an ideal opportunity for Ilia. The spotlight and expectations would be on Nathan and Vincent. He could have just gone out and skated.

Polina and Vincent did just fine at the Olympics.

I think the USFSA does hype but I do think they don’t do enough to promote skaters and especially the more technically gifted in some cases.

I know someone mentioned Lindsay was getting edge calls others wasn’t. I don’t think they should make it hard for them to take a junior.

Polina Edmunds in her podcast talked about how juniors can be developing for the first three years and great at an Olympic year.

I do think expecting a new skater to have the same body of work as a veteran is a lot

 

[Jammers]

What if USFS have made the mistake of their life because it could happen that Ilia win the Olympic.

Just thinking of a junior skater who win Olympic. = Alina Zagitova.

Maybe Ilia would have be like Alina Zagitova at the Olympic and win there !

I continue to think that's a mistake to have put out Ilia off the team in the Olympic. I'm very sad for him.

Junior men don't win the Olympics like the women do the men peak later then the girls who sometimes are done by the age of 16 while men's skaters are just starting to make the move up the ladder.

 

[moonvine]

I do think expecting a new skater to have the same body of work as a veteran is a lot

The benchmark for seniors was top 10 in the world. The benchmark for Juniors was top 15 in the world.

 

[yume]

Can confirm that it is a French idiom for fourth place, or rather the first place to not win a medal (usually said tongue in cheek).

Yeah. And apparently, even if the pewter medal mostly only exist in US fed (all the other feds that i know only have the usual 3 medals), is only recognized in USA (i mean, i never saw "three-time national pewter medalist" written in a record or even heard a commentator introduce someone like that during an international event), it still is an actual medal. I should have written "you're seriously valuing a pewter medal... " . He actually didn't finish off podium (even if for most countries, he did).

 

[skatesofgold]

You know, Brian Joubert was only 17 at his first Olympics. Ilia is the same age.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Neither will medal at the Olympics save Nathan, Vincent, all the top Japanese and all the top Russians not being there.

Ilia already beat Vincent here, And actually after viewing the scoring of the Russian men in the SP at Europeans
I wouldn't put medalling at the Olympics past him (Or at least scoring very well)

They all got 99 points in the SP, And he has more difficult jump content, Better spins,
skills that seem as good and apparent showmanship, I think he might be able to pass 100 internationally
And if he considers attempting his Quad quad combo in the Free then that's 5 Quads.

 

[lesnar001]

I actually think there's been some good arguments (pro & con) posted here about whether Ilya Malinin should be sent to the Olympics.
Personally, I still think the US made the right choice, but I certainly don't think he would have been a bad choice either.

My main reason for not sending him (other than I think both Vincent and Jason are both worthy of going), is that he really has no competition experience other than this US Nationals. Somebody earlier brought up Alina Zagitova, but about the only comparable thing would be the young age. Alina had competed internationally (and won) all season long, and then she won Russian Nationals as well. Ilya's situation would be similar to Alina's prior season, when her only "senior" experience would have been winning Silver at Russian Nationals.

However, I certainly don't see his US Nationals performance as a "fluke". He appears to have really good technique and he executed all his content in both the SP and LP quite easily. It wasn't just that he did all those jumps, it was how he did them. And I know it was just in some video posted online, but seeing that 4-4 combo was really, really impressive. And as far as I know, nobody else is even attempting that.

In summation, I wish the US could send all 4 of them to the Olympics.

 

[moonvine]

Ilia already beat Vincent here, And actually after viewing the scoring of the Russian men in the SP at Europeans
I wouldn't put medalling at the Olympics past him (Or at least scoring very well)

They all got 99 points in the SP, And he has more difficult jump content, Better spins,
skills that seem as good and apparent showmanship, I think he might be able to pass 100 internationally
And if he considers attempting his Quad quad combo in the Free then that's 5 Quads.

Scores can’t be compared across competitions, especially National vs international ones.

He beat Vincent because Vincent fell apart. The likelihood of all Japanese AND all Russians AND both Nathan and Vincent falling apart is pretty low.

It doesn’t matter. He probably won’t go to the Olympics but he could go to Worlds (barring not getting sick).

 

[Mista Ekko]

He beat Vincent because Vincent fell apart. The likelihood of all Japanese AND all Russians AND both Nathan and Vincent falling apart is pretty low.

They wouldn't have to fall apart, It's not beyond likelihood that 2 or 3 guys might make a couple mistakes
in the FS and only score like 180 something, It's hard enough for most of them to reach the 200 mark right now anyways,
Apart from Hanyu and Chen

 

[Sjs5572]

Ilia already beat Vincent here, And actually after viewing the scoring of the Russian men in the SP at Europeans
I wouldn't put medalling at the Olympics past him (Or at least scoring very well)

They all got 99 points in the SP, And he has more difficult jump content, Better spins,
skills that seem as good and apparent showmanship, I think he might be able to pass 100 internationally
And if he considers attempting his Quad quad combo in the Free then that's 5 Quads.

He already repeats the quad toe in his fs. He would need to add a quad flip or loop to have five quads..