US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[JustMe]

Seconded. Definitely not everyone shares that opinion. I'm not a Max fan and I heartliy criticized him for his last season's programs but that program is right my alley and I enjoy it immensly. Here's the killer: in my opinion, when Max gets into it, it's better than Jason Brown's "exquisite" FS (which makes my brain switch off and stop paying attention after 30 secs). Since I'm going to be there sitting on the audience at Worlds, I'm quite disappointed that the Lion King won't be there.

I have to admit (and agree) that Jason's free does nothing for me, even though he does seem to "get into" into his program (which seems to please audiences). Maybe because I know this music so well, I get the feeling that the quality of of the skating doesn't quite match the quality and subtleness in the music (if that make sense, lol). And if I had to explain why I dislike this Lion King program, I guess it's because of all the music cuts and how they are arranged (kinda like listening to the radio in your car and trying to sing a long but your friend keeps changing the station--again, that's just my opinion and how I experience this program and all programs with more than 3 music cuts). :giveup:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I feel like Mariah and Karen are both being a little underestimated - if either skates well, I see no reason why they shouldn't score around the same level as Maria Sotskova. It is the first Worlds for all 3, and both Karen and Maria are a little rough in regards to having world-class choreography, though both sell it well (and both struggle with underrotations). A clean Mariah, with the attention to detail in her programs and her skating skills, spin quality, etc., is really quite honestly better than Ashley, and could podium under the right circumstances.

Or are we just assuming Mariah and Karen will be lowballed in PCS because reputation?

I think it's a combination of reputation and the likelihood that they actually skate well. Maria S emerged from the brutal Russian field to make the team by making the GPF and medalling at her nationals. She is also a Jr World medalist, so the judges are likely very familiar with her. Karen has skated maybe one good SP in 9 events as a senior, so she is never in position to take advantage of the higher scores awarded to skaters in the last groups for the free skate. Mariah was maybe a bit more consistent this season but doesn't have a lot of strong events to make the judges take notice.

 

[Chemistry66]

Note: Nirti posted the entries list for Bavarian Open, and Vincent's name isn't on it:

http://goldenskate.com/forum/showth...an-Open-2017&p=1615668&viewfull=1#post1615668

Could he be added later? Or is there some other competition where he'd be able to earn the senior TES?

Updated entries were posted today and Vincent's name is now there.

No Caroline though.

 

[tulosai]

Updated entries were posted today and Vincent's name is now there.

No Caroline though.

Yes I am a little confused by this- I realize that as third alternate there is almost no chance Caroline would actually be called on to compete, but should some strange tragedy occur you'd think they'd want to have her ready with the tech mins if they'rs serious about having named her.

 

[Tavi...]

I have to admit (and agree) that Jason's free does nothing for me, even though he does seem to "get into" into his program (which seems to please audiences). Maybe because I know this music so well, I get the feeling that the quality of of the skating doesn't quite match the quality and subtleness in the music (if that make sense, lol). And if I had to explain why I dislike this Lion King program, I guess it's because of all the music cuts and how they are arranged (kinda like listening to the radio in your car and trying to sing a long but your friend keeps changing the station--again, that's just my opinion and how I experience this program and all programs with more than 3 music cuts). :giveup:

Quite honestly, this was far from Jason's best performance of his FS. Because he was concentrating so hard on executing the jumps, in my opinion (and Jason is my favorite skater) he let a lot of little things go. A lot of his movements were perfunctory and off the music. In addition, they took out the quad, rearranged the order of some jumps, and took out some transitions, so the program as a whole was emptier.

His performance at Skate America was brilliant, and it contained the intended choreography. If you've seen the SA program and don't like it, then I guess it's just not a program you respond to.

 

[Eislauf]

I feel a little bored whenever I watch Patrick or Jason, and for the same reason. It almost seems like their heavy focus on PCS..."exquisite skating"..."beautiful edges"..has sucked the raw life force out of their programs. Their skating is buffed so smooth and fluid that it lacks dynamism, freshness and excitement. No doubt many will disagree. Hanyu's Prince SP and Phantom FS programs gave me goosebumps, as did Nathan's programs at Nat's.

 

[el henry]

I feel a little bored whenever I watch Patrick or Jason, and for the same reason. It almost seems like their heavy focus on PCS..."exquisite skating"..."beautiful edges"..has sucked the raw life force out of their programs. Their skating is buffed so smooth and fluid that it lacks dynamism, freshness and excitement. No doubt many will disagree. Hanyu's Prince SP and Phantom FS programs gave me goosebumps, as did Nathan's programs at Nat's.

This is definitely filed under "different strokes for different folks" I find Jason's love of performance and complete investment in his programs to be fresh, exciting, and he draws me into the program every time. Even when he, on his terms, has a "bad" skate as NHK. The programs, the composition, his performance; I'd watch if he popped every jump.

Nathan has never drawn me in. When you do those jumps to that powerful Borodin, it's exciting because the music is loud and fast and he's jumping. That's it. I'm still waiting for Nathan, in his LP, to do *something* other than jump to draw me in. I know he can, his SP showed glimmers of it.
But when he doesn't make the jumps? Zzzzzz

But fresh and exciting? Nah, not for me. But everyone's mileage will vary.

 

[Mrs. P]

According to folks who were there, there were two men that got the largest standing ovations: Jason and Nathan.

How is it possible that the audience could be drawn both to someone who didn't do a single quad AND a guy who did five of them?! I mean that's crazy business! :sarcasm:

I'm not understanding this either/or stuff. I personally enjoy the men's discipline because there is diversity and that skaters with different styles can succeed in the sport. I like basketball for that reason too -- there's room for both the Golden State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavilers (and every team in between) to succeed and win championships.

Now do I prefer certain skaters (and basketball teams) more than others? Of course. But I also generally try to keep an open mind that there are different ways to play and succeed and try to see all skaters through that lens. It helps me appreciate them more, even if it's not my cup of tea.

Going back to topic. I think having two skaters who strengths that I think complement each other will be beneficial at Worlds. And both are very good competitors.

 

[Tavi...]

I feel a little bored whenever I watch Patrick or Jason, and for the same reason. It almost seems like their heavy focus on PCS..."exquisite skating"..."beautiful edges"..has sucked the raw life force out of their programs. Their skating is buffed so smooth and fluid that it lacks dynamism, freshness and excitement. No doubt many will disagree. Hanyu's Prince SP and Phantom FS programs gave me goosebumps, as did Nathan's programs at Nat's.

I don't really consider Patrick and Jason to be similar skaters, but I'm sure he'd be thrilled at the comparison - his team's intention with this free skate was precisely to focus on displaying - and more importantly improving - his skating skills.

I'm a big fan of Hanyu, but I happen to think Jason's Prince SP from the 2013-2014 Olympic season - though lacking the technical difficulty of Hanyu's - is much better choreographed and more entertaining. YMMV.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x178kmb_jason-brown-teb-2013-sp_sport

 

[Chemistry66]

Updated entries were posted today and Vincent's name is now there.

No Caroline though.

Well, the case of the missing Caroline Zhang "Earn minimum TES" assignment has been solved!

USFS updated their International Assignments page today and Caroline is entered at Challenge Cup in The Hague, NED, from February 23-26!

 

[Mrs. P]

Well, the case of the missing Caroline Zhang "Earn minimum TES" assignment has been solved!

USFS updated their International Assignments page today and Caroline is entered at Challenge Cup in The Hague, NED, from February 23-26!

Really encouraging to see a full slate for Challenge Cup -- including Maxim Narmov, Jordan Moeller in men, Kaitlyn Nguyen, Emmy Ma and Hanna Harrell (along wiht Zhang) in Ladies and Coleman/Griffin in pairs!
Sad not to see Tessa or Starr get an assignment though.

 

[Chemistry66]

Really encouraging to see a full slate for Challenge Cup -- including Maxim Narmov, Jordan Moeller in men, Kaitlyn Nguyen, Emmy Ma and Stephane Harrell (along wiht Zhang) in Ladies and Coleman/Griffin in pairs!
Sad not to see Tessa or Starr get an assignment though.

Assuming you mean Hanna Harrell? (Unless Stephane is her full name or something lol).

I think they're sending skaters who haven't had chances to earn the minimums, or young Novices to get experience. Tessa and Starr have minimums and probably will get JGPs next season too. Kaitlyn probably gets an assignment as a consolation for not being age-eligible for Junior Worlds.

There's also still Egna Spring Trophy (formerly Gardena Spring Trophy) as a possibility.

 

[Mrs. P]

Assuming you mean Hanna Harrell? (Unless Stephane is her full name or something lol).

I think they're sending skaters who haven't had chances to earn the minimums, or young Novices to get experience. Tessa and Starr have minimums and probably will get JGPs next season too. Kaitlyn probably gets an assignment as a consolation for not being age-eligible for Junior Worlds.

There's also still Egna Spring Trophy (formerly Gardena Spring Trophy) as a possibility.

Yeah, I had mixed her up with Stephanie Ciarochi, LOL. Don't ask me.

You make good points....

 

[Arriba627]

I'm a big fan of Hanyu, but I happen to think Jason's Prince SP from the 2013-2014 Olympic season - though lacking the technical difficulty of Hanyu's - is much better choreographed and more entertaining. YMMV.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x178kmb_jason-brown-teb-2013-sp_sport

This is a GREAT program! Love it. Thx for posting.

 

[Chemistry66]

Yeah, I had mixed her up with Stephanie Ciarochi, LOL. Don't ask me.

You make good points....

I have to give credit to frida80 and our discussion in the Bavarian Open thread the other day. She was the one who suggested some of that (the minimums stuff) and I realized I agreed.

Also, it should be noted that Coleman/Griffin are competing Junior Pairs in The Hague because they're both actually too old for ISU Novice. I noted that in the Challenge Cup thread, but noting it here in case anyone's also confused.

 

[Mrs. P]

I have to give credit to frida80 and our discussion in the Bavarian Open thread the other day. She was the one who suggested some of that (the minimums stuff) and I realized I agreed.

Also, it should be noted that Coleman/Griffin are competing Junior Pairs in The Hague because they're both actually too old for ISU Novice. I noted that in the Challenge Cup thread, but noting it here in case anyone's also confused.

Well, I think they should do well in juniors considering their technical content! It will be a great way to get their feet wet before JGP!

 

[Princessroja]

Oh, so excited for the Challenge Cup now! Those skaters assigned were pretty much the ones I was super impressed with at nationals, especially Coleman/Griffin, and I can't wait to see how they do.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I don't really consider Patrick and Jason to be similar skaters, but I'm sure he'd be thrilled at the comparison - his team's intention with this free skate was precisely to focus on displaying - and more importantly improving - his skating skills.

I'm a big fan of Hanyu, but I happen to think Jason's Prince SP from the 2013-2014 Olympic season - though lacking the technical difficulty of Hanyu's - is much better choreographed and more entertaining. YMMV.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x178kmb_jason-brown-teb-2013-sp_sport

That is still his personal best for SP TES. I think that has been his best senior SP... then again he did get to work on it for two years.

Happy to see some skaters at Challenge Cup... sad to not see Kaitlyn and Starr get something post season. Is Gardena Spring Trophy no longer a thing?

 

[Chemistry66]

That is still his personal best for SP TES. I think that has been his best senior SP... then again he did get to work on it for two years.

Happy to see some skaters at Challenge Cup... sad to not see Kaitlyn and Starr get something post season. Is Gardena Spring Trophy no longer a thing?

Kaitlyn IS at Challenge Cup, likely because she cannot go to Junior Worlds. Did you mean Tessa?

Also, if you read my post on the previous page, I noted that Gardena Spring Trophy is now Egna Spring Trophy The location moved from Selva di Val Gardena, Italy (hence the name Gardena Spring Trophy) to Egna, Italy. Discovered this when I noticed yesterday I couldn't find Gardena Spring Trophy on the ISU schedule yesterday and thought it was cancelled. Whoops, just a location/name change.

Assuming you meant Tessa and not Kaitlyn, a few of us were also discussing Spring US Assignments tend to be for Seniors/Juniors who need TES minimums for Worlds/Junior Worlds, newer Juniors who have never competed internationally, or young Novices to get experience. Tessa and Starr already have Junior TES and are likely in line for JGPs next season, so USFS probably will not send them out in the Spring (unless Starr gets called up to go to Junior Worlds)

 

[CoyoteChris]

According to folks who were there, there were two men that got the largest standing ovations: Jason and Nathan.

How is it possible that the audience could be drawn both to someone who didn't do a single quad AND a guy who did five of them?! I mean that's crazy business! :sarcasm:

I'm not understanding this either/or stuff. I personally enjoy the men's discipline because there is diversity and that skaters with different styles can succeed in the sport. .

ref standing Os. Are you serious or tongue in cheek? Most people don’t go to Nats for the sport…they go for the performance and for their favorite skaters. Nathan’s standing O requires no explanation. It was magic to be there. One of the best skates for a man ever seen at nats this century and I don’t say that lightly.
Jason is a showman. A much loved showman. He has charisma and is a very nice person. To go out there with a fractured leg and maybe still a bad back and do that performance excited people.
Mr. Zhou is coming along nicely. But he does need to learn to connect to the audience. Like Mr. Rabbitt does.
My heart goes out to Gracie and especially Max, but they did not turn in performances that I would give a standing O to….I have no problem with anyone giving any skater a standing O…but for me to give Max a standing O would have been to change my personal meaning for what a standing O is.