US Worlds and Four Continents Teams?

[brightphoton]

Yes thank you Frenchie, although that has already been mentioned upthread.

Miki Ando, despite a poor showing at Nationals, had already secured her spot by being the highest ranking Japanese lady at GP final. Mao Asada got her spot by winning Japanese Nationals. So it was really down to Suzuki or Nakano that year, the so called discretionary spot. Unlike the US, at least the Japanese fed had published and publicized these guidelines well in advance.

Of course both Suzuki and Ando did poorly at Vancouver, and Ando had that horrid tanned skin, tacky costume, all to go with her campy egyptian-esque music, but that's another story.

 

[wallylutz]

Miki Ando, despite a poor showing at Nationals, had already secured her spot by being the highest ranking Japanese lady at GP final. Mao Asada got her spot by winning Japanese Nationals. So it was really down to Suzuki or Nakano that year, the so called discretionary spot. Unlike the US, at least the Japanese fed had published and publicized these guidelines well in advance.

For the nth time, the USFS rules were published and disclosed. Ignorance is not a defense in the eyes of U.S. law, neither should people who claim they didn't know about the rule change.

It is safe to assume even if USFS pinned the rule change on the forehead of every single outraged poster here, they still continue to claim the rules are:

a) Not published
or
b) Unclear
or
c) Inconsistent

 

[Mrs. P]

Senior Bs do get points and are still treated like wins. There's no consequences for winning a senior b with a low level field. If you win, you get the points which helps your ISU rank and gives you a better starting order. They don't give half the points to someone else because they may get higher PCS if they were skating at a GP.

Wait, I'm sorry, but what exactly are you debating with me about? I wouldn't agree with that either. I'm strictly commenting on why scores tend to be higher at nationals than internationally. My initial response is that no, I didn't feel that the selection of Max to Worlds undermined the judging process.

I'm a bit confused what we're debating at this point...

 

[Frenchie]

The U.S. judges may have been carried away emotionally but it's unlikely a quadless skate in both SP and FS will get you such high PCS at the Olympics or Worlds

A Quadless skate should get far higher PCS than a PCSless skate! When Aaron said he would work on his Carmen for the Nationals, I was hoping for more than just improving the music arrangement. His skating was the same as before. He might get more than he deserves in that matter, but he'll be among the worst of all WC participants in terms of PCS.

Eh, if you went out and spoke to the first 10 people you saw in the street, I doubt you could find more than 1 who could tell you which ladies USA chose for the Olympic team yesterday, much less anyone who could muster any outrage over the bronze medalist getting bumped. Even though she's been the dominant lady, I doubt the majority of Americans know who Ashley is _ or Mirai. People who are half-way interested will start to tune in as the Olympics approaches - just in time for USA skating to splash Gracie Gold all over the TV and front covers. She'll be the news and it will be far from a public relations "disaster" that there was some controversy over who got the third spot.

No doubt that it's in NBC, the USFSA and Wagner's best interest to say that there's nothing noteworthy going on here, but I'd be curious as to how the general US media and public treat this subject over the next weeks: please keep us informed!

 

[brightphoton]

They may have been published, but they were not publicized well, as the Japanese fed had. I remember even during the GP season, people were talking about how Mao or Miki could secure their spot by doing well at the GP final. Likewise, Miki got criticism for sleepwalking through Japanese Nationals because she knew she was on the team and didn't need to try to put out a great performance. And Mao was safe because even if she didn't win Nationals, she would most definitely get the discretionary spot.

Now for US, people here are like WHHHAT HAPPENED????? Criteria never mentioned on NBC, no commentator talked about the criteria, never mentioned during GP, fans had to dig up the document when 1-2-4 were picked for the team and you can see how much controversy there is over the vague criteria.

edit:

thought I might include the Japanese fed criteria for the Olympic team, as I remember
1. Highest finisher at GP final
2. Nationals winner
3. Whoever we want

 

[ks777]

huh? I didn't get this one...
I called myself frenchie here ever since I first opened an account. Never Medusa. Why do you ask? Is/was Medusa another member here?

Yes there was Medusa, she used to post here often but I haven't seen her for years.. she was from germany also, I think and she was a big Abbott fan.

 

[Frenchie]

Obviously, I was referring to the world's team. :sarcasm:

obviously, I was pointing out that the Olympics was the big goal, and that making next year's worlds will seem pretty crappy compared to this. :sarcasm: Particularly if it includes having to hope that they won't treat her as they did now, esp not even sending her to the WC.
I was just against what I perceived as a "it's not that bad!".

 

[aftertherain]

Now for US, people here are like WHHHAT HAPPENED????? Criteria never mentioned on NBC, no commentator talked about the criteria, never mentioned during GP, fans had to dig up the document when 1-2-4 were picked for the team and you can see how much controversy there is over the vague criteria.

Uh. Weren't they talking about it throughout Nationals?

 

[treeloving]

This is so double standard, they send Max and D/C but not Mirai and H/D even Max is beaten by more points than the rest.

 

[brightphoton]

As Ashley was falling apart in the free program, the female commentator (Sandra?) did sadly opine that Ashley may have already earned her spot during the GP circuit even with her poor Nationals skates, but it didn't sound any different than the typical cheerleading that Scott and Sandra usually do.

No one came out and said, hey, there's a document that has these guidelines:
1. Nationals
2. Senior GP
3. Senior GP final
4. Junior GPF
etc.

I don't even recall anyone on GS talking about it, and we've got some of the most knowledgeable/obsessed fans around.

 

[Frenchie]

There was Olympics in 2008 - in Beijing. Except, I didn't realize Figure Skating takes place in both Summer and Winter Games although technically, it's possible. Wouldn't it be nice though, double the chance of winning the Olympics, sounds like a great idea to me.

LOL! You got me on a technicality there But why not add Roller Blading as a Summer Olympic Venue and see if some FSers go for it? It used to be a big thing for Figure Skaters in West Germany until the 90s, Marina Kielmann for example was very successful at both... But they kept citing her roller blading as an explanation for her lack of grace.

 

[Layfan]

obviously, I was pointing out that the Olympics was the big goal, and that making next year's worlds will seem pretty crappy compared to this. :sarcasm: Particularly if it includes having to hope that they won't treat her as they did now, esp not even sending her to the WC.
I was just against what I perceived as a "it's not that bad!".

My point certainly wasn't that "it's not that bad." I'm utterly crushed for Mirai. But I was trying to say that if you think about it, she is well-positioned for next season, assuming her training goes well. She will be a fan favorite and a sentimental favorite. If she medals at nationals again, I don't see how they can dump her twice in a row. And since Mirai has never medaled at worlds, I think that would be a pretty formidable goal for her. Why not go for it?
Assuming she decides to keep competing, this is what I would be telling her if I were her coach. I would respect her right to feel crushed - but I certainly would do my best to keep her from dwelling on it.

 

[Frenchie]

Of course both Suzuki and Ando did poorly at Vancouver

Funny, to me, Suzuki's FS was one of the emotional Highlights of Vancouver.

 

[brightphoton]

ok we can give Akiko the emotional gold medal then.

 

[gnom]

http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=49829&type=media

Mirai didn't get a worlds assignment either

Shame on USFS!

 

[chuckm]

and I thought Mirai did have a coach, that woman who looks like an older version of Bebe Liang ...?

Mirai parted company with Amy Evidente after CoR, and none too amicably. After CoR, Mirai went back to Japan and trained there until Japanese Nationals. After JPN Nationals, she returned to the US.

 

[emma]

Mirai parted company with Amy Evidente after CoR, and none too amicably. After CoR, Mirai went back to Japan and trained there until Japanese Nationals. After JPN Nationals, she returned to the US.

Absolutley not trying to stir up the waters, but do you or anyone know what happened (I wasn't able to really follow skating during the Grand Prix season and that is why I ask). On a similar note, does anyone know why Caroline Zhang appeared to be without a coach in the Kiss n Cry?

About the commentary during NBC broadcasts: I was struck by just how often they implied that nationals was a key but only one criteria for Olympic selection. (and if memory serves, which it may not, I think IN commentators did as well). I was thinking to myself - hmmm, something has definitely changed. I did not know until reading all of this about the Summer selection criteria document. But, what I'm still unclear about is the following: a) how much does this new document differ from earlier years, and b) why the apparent difference in world's team naming (e.g., Max to worlds, D/C to worlds, but no Mirai).

 

[Mathman]

As Ashley was falling apart in the free program, the female commentator (Sandra?) did sadly opine that Ashley may have already earned her spot during the GP circuit even with her poor Nationals skates, but it didn't sound any different than the typical cheerleading that Scott and Sandra usually do.

No one came out and said, hey, there's a document that has these guidelines:
1. Nationals
2. Senior GP
3. Senior GP final
4. Junior GPF
etc.

I don't even recall anyone on GS talking about it, and we've got some of the most knowledgeable/obsessed fans around.

Actually, there was quite a lot of discussion about the selection procedure on GS, as there is every year. I know this because I was dead wrong. I thought all this talk about including other results besides nationals placement was just hot air. Only nationals placement counts, always has, always will.

My bad, The USFSA told us and told us and told us that times were a-changing. We just didn't believe them. I don't like the new criteria, but then again, they didn't ask me.

 

[Panini]

If they don't trust Mirai enough to keep 3 spots for the US, they should've given her the Olympic spot over Edmund or Wagner. It's ridiculous that she got snubbed for both when the other bronze medalists got a consolation prize. I'm disgusted with the USFSA.

 

[Frenchie]

If they don't trust Mirai enough to keep 3 spots for the US, they should've given her the Olympic spot over Edmund or Wagner. It's ridiculous that she got snubbed for both when the other bronze medalists got a consolation prize. I'm disgusted with the USFSA.

the other bronze medalists got to kick someone off the world team, since there were only 2 spots! in the ladie's field, there were 3 spots. Mirai would have been way more deserving of making the World Team than Aaron or D/C.