USA Athlete envelopes announced

[Alsace]

http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=34346&type=news

It is interesting to note that Michelle is not included in any of the envelopes. Since she did not compete in any qualifying or ISU competitions in the past season, the USFSA is perfectly justified. However, it is a good thing that she is able to earn good money performing for COI, if she wishes to continue to complete. Conversely, if it were a different skater without such resources, how difficult a season-ending injury would make financing the next season.

 

[attyfan]

As I understand it, Michelle no longer takes the USFSA money, even when she qualifies for it. Do these envelopes have any meaning outside of funding (such as, whether a skater gets asked to a cheesefest or given a GP assignment -- such as an assignment to SA when the USFSA gets to invite someone as the "host country's extra"skater?)

 

[Tonichelle]

congrats to Ashley Wagner (ALASKAN BABY!) for gettin on the C envelope! I really liked what I saw at nationals this year and last

 

[Alsace]

Officially, I don't think envelope placement does affect compeition assignments, but I'm sure the USFSA wants to see bang for their buck by entering the A envelope skaters into the big stakes competitions.

In the Criteria (http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=30630), the ICMS is mentioned. What is this? A group or a ranking system?

 

[Sylvia]

ICMS stands for the USFSA's International Committee Management Subcommittee, which is the group of people in charge of selecting U.S. skaters for international competitions and their placement in the team funding envelopes.

 

[MKFSfan]

If Michelle chooses to compete next season, I can't see the USFSA not inviting her to SA. I think any skater can be invited to any international competition, so not be included in the envelope won't affect Michelle. Maybe it will be seen as a sign of being non-commital again, and make host countries less likely to invite her, which would actually help Michelle-she won't have any to turn down.

However, it is a good thing that she is able to earn good money performing for COI, if she wishes to continue to complete.

Considering Michelle is a multi-millionaire, I highly doubt not receiving funding (if she does indeed accept the funding) will have any affect on her competition plans.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Questions - Looking for Answers

1. What is meant by Initial JGP Assignments - and where are they listed?

2. Whatever happened to Stefanie Rosenthal?


I believe Skate America will be Kimmie, Katie and Emily.If the USFS is going to assign MK to Skate America I think it will be Katie that is bumped. I believe Skate america will be Emily, Kimmie and Katie. I doubt Sasha will want to do the GPs (maybe Paris). If MK skates I can see the parents of skaters getting so angry. My gut feeling is she wont skate gps.

Alissa and Bebe will get one each gp not wanted by the others. That's the whole of my gut feeling.

Joe

 

[MKFSfan]

1. What is meant by Initial JGP Assignments - and where are they listed?

2. Whatever happened to Stefanie Rosenthal?


I believe Skate America will be Kimmie, Katie and Emily.If the USFS is going to assign MK to Skate America I think it will be Katie that is bumped. I believe Skate america will be Emily, Kimmie and Katie. I doubt Sasha will want to do the GPs (maybe Paris). If MK skates I can see the parents of skaters getting so angry. My gut feeling is she wont skate gps.

Alissa and Bebe will get one each gp not wanted by the others. That's the whole of my gut feeling.

Joe

1. http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=216 The JrGPs are listed first. I guess "initial" because the GPs aren't filled in yet.

2. I think Stephanie placed 8th at Nationals and only 1-7 get funding??? I'm not sure though. There was a rumor that she said she was going to college in the fall and planning on competing. I hope so!

I'm not 100% sure how the GPs are assigned, but I don't think it's a matter of taking assignments others don't want. Doesn't the host country pick 1st, and then go down the list until all the countries have picked? I don't think any skaters has the right to choose one assignment over another (like, if Sasha is assigned to SA, she can't say,"Nah, I'd rather do Paris."). I think if Michelle comes out and says she'll be competing in the fall, Michelle, Kimme and either Sasha or Emily will be invited to SA. Because Michelle's not seeded, she won't HAVE to do 2 events, but I have no idea if that means she's not on a list of eligible skaters. Anyone know?

Why would parents of other skaters' get angry if Michelle competes? If Michelle chooses to compete, and does not do a GP, she'll have to go through regionals/sectionals to qualify for Nationals, and therefore bumping someone. My feeling is SA would be a better "bye" situation. People get "angry" when Michelle skips the GP. Now people will get "angry" if she does a GP? I suppose then, noone will be happy until Michelle retires.

I bet Bebe ends up going to Nebelhorn or the other GPs we hardly hear about. I bet Alissa will be invited somewhere.

 

[Sylvia]

1. http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=216 The JrGPs are listed first. I guess "initial" because the GPs aren't filled in yet.

It's "initial" because this is the first round of JGP assignments -- more will be made after summer monitoring competitions.

2. I think Stephanie placed 8th at Nationals and only 1-7 get funding???

Correct, Stephanie Rosenthal was 8th at Nationals and one of the Team C criteria is 5th-7th place at Nationals.

The USFSA's International Committee Management Subcommittee (ICMS) followed the published 2006-07 envelope criteria exactly this year: http://www.usfigureskating.org/shell.asp?sid=30630

Skaters who qualified for an envelope this year but have retired (Goebel, Weiss) or have indicated they will not compete in 2006-07 (Savoie, Silverstein & O'Meara, Jahnke) and/or pair and dance teams that have split since Nationals were not included in the envelopes. An official announcement has not yet been made, but I recently heard that Tiffany Scott has decided to retire, which is most likely why Scott/Rusty Fein were not included in the Team B envelope for which they were qualified (due to their 4th place finish in senior pairs at Nationals).

I'm not 100% sure how the GPs are assigned, but I don't think it's a matter of taking assignments others don't want.

Right. The Senior Grand Prix skater draw for the 6 GPs is scheduled to take place in late June (probably during the ISU Congress meeting in Budapest). The exact criteria haven't been published online yet, but it will likely involve using the skaters' ISU World rankings, which currently are as follows for the U.S. ladies:
8 Kimmie Meissner; 13 Sasha Cohen; 15 Alissa Czisny; 20 Emily Hughes; 25 Katy Taylor; 28 Bebe Liang; 31 Christine Zukowski; 52 Michelle Kwan. Since Zukowski was not assigned to a JGP this fall, I assume she is expected to receive at least one Sr. Grand Prix invite.

USFSA, as the Skate America host country, is allowed to pick a 3rd skater/team in each of the 4 disciplines regardless of their ISU ranking or even if they don't have a current ranking (for example, Nam/Leftheris).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

8 Kimmie Meissner; 13 Sasha Cohen; 15 Alissa Czisny; 20 Emily Hughes; 25 Katy Taylor; 28 Bebe Liang; 31 Christine Zukowski; 52 Michelle Kwan. Since Zukowski was not assigned to a JGP this fall, I assume she is expected to receive at least one Sr. Grand Prix invite.

USFSA, as the Skate America host country, is allowed to pick a 3rd skater/team in each of the 4 disciplines regardless of their ISU ranking or even if they don't have a current ranking (for example, Nam/Leftheris).

How much would they be correct in inviting MK to Skate America who has no credits for 2004-05?

Joe

 

[antmanb]

How much would they be correct in inviting MK to Skate America who has no credits for 2004-05?

Joe

It looks like, from what Sylivia is saying, the third spot is at USFSA's discretion hence the mention of Nam&Leftheris in the pairs.

The gamble for USFSA is whether MK would show up to Skate America. If the USFSA had their choice i would guess they would choose MK and have her skate in the third spot purely because of the money that would come in from having Kwan billed. The gamble though - will anyone actually buy SA based on Michelle's attendance given her track record? I suppose the USFSA has nothing to loose as long as they sell tickets.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It looks like, from what Sylivia is saying, the third spot is at USFSA's discretion hence the mention of Nam&Leftheris in the pairs.

The gamble for USFSA is whether MK would show up to Skate America. If the USFSA had their choice i would guess they would choose MK and have her skate in the third spot purely because of the money that would come in from having Kwan billed. The gamble though - will anyone actually buy SA based on Michelle's attendance given her track record? I suppose the USFSA has nothing to loose as long as they sell tickets.

Ant

Your second paragraph is what I see as the reason for inviting MK, and that is the only reason I see for inviting MK. It's money over substance.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

Your second paragraph is what I see as the reason for inviting MK, and that is the only reason I see for inviting MK. It's money over substance.

Joe

Arguably that's all the USFSA ever do is think of the money first. But until we know how Kwan is doing physically we don't know about the "substance" side of things.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Arguably that's all the USFSA ever do is think of the money first. But until we know how Kwan is doing physically we don't know about the "substance" side of things.

Ant

I used the word to describe the present competitive ability. It's not a put down. I'd love the see her go to Hartford and knock off a 3x3. I just don't see that happening.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I used the word to describe the present competitive ability. It's not a put down. I'd love the see her go to Hartford and knock off a 3x3. I just don't see that happening.

Joe

If present competitive ability is the test then there's nothing to debate - she wouldn't be there. Right now she can't jump so if we're going by how she's doing today...no MK.

But like with every competition whether anyone needs a 3/3 depends on the field. Apparently the reigning Olympic champion didn't need one and "only" needed five triples.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If present competitive ability is the test then there's nothing to debate - she wouldn't be there. Right now she can't jump so if we're going by how she's doing today...no MK.

But like with every competition whether anyone needs a 3/3 depends on the field. Apparently the reigning Olympic champion didn't need one and "only" needed five triples. Ant

Hope runs eternal.

Kimmie did need the 3x3s to win Worlds over Sasha and Fumie, imo.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

Hope runs eternal.

Kimmie did need the 3x3s to win Worlds over Sasha and Fumie, imo.

Joe

The fact that Kimmie did need the 3/3s doesn't alter the fact that Shizuka didn't need one. Hope has little to do with it -- it is what happens on a particular night, on particular ice (I can't help thinking that the ice in Torino had something to do with the huge number of falls that plagued all disciplines). I think the quality of skating at Worlds in general was much better than at Olys, with fewer falls, so naturally more was needed to win.

 

[soogar]

The fact that Kimmie did need the 3/3s doesn't alter the fact that Shizuka didn't need one. Hope has little to do with it -- it is what happens on a particular night, on particular ice (I can't help thinking that the ice in Torino had something to do with the huge number of falls that plagued all disciplines). I think the quality of skating at Worlds in general was much better than at Olys, with fewer falls, so naturally more was needed to win.

Shizuka got lucky that she didn't need one.. though I imagine the 3-3-3s she was knocking off in practice scared the crap out of her competitors. I think for a skater to truly control her fate, she does need 3-3s. No 3-3 and that skater needs to hope that the judges give high PCS scores and that her competitors won't put out 3-3s; both of which happened for Shizuka.

 

[MKFSfan]

Shizuka got lucky that she didn't need one.. though I imagine the 3-3-3s she was knocking off in practice scared the crap out of her competitors. I think for a skater to truly control her fate, she does need 3-3s. No 3-3 and that skater needs to hope that the judges give high PCS scores and that her competitors won't put out 3-3s; both of which happened for Shizuka.

That may have been so under the 6.0 system, but with COP not awarding extra credit for a 3/3 combo, a skater can still do 7 triples (2axle/3toe or like Mao, have a 3axle). I'll be eager to see how the judges stack a two 3/3 program from Kimmie to a program by Mao, who does not include a 3/3 in her LP but does have a 3axle.

It's hard to go by this Olympics as the be all since it wasn't a great competition all in all. But I do agree that maybe Shiz scared her competitors with her 3/3's in practices, but not enough to make Irina bring hers.

 

[soogar]

That may have been so under the 6.0 system, but with COP not awarding extra credit for a 3/3 combo, a skater can still do 7 triples (2axle/3toe or like Mao, have a 3axle). I'll be eager to see how the judges stack a two 3/3 program from Kimmie to a program by Mao, who does not include a 3/3 in her LP but does have a 3axle.

It's hard to go by this Olympics as the be all since it wasn't a great competition all in all. But I do agree that maybe Shiz scared her competitors with her 3/3's in practices, but not enough to make Irina bring hers.

Well there is extra credit in that a 3-3 permits a skater to add more triples to the program and really beef up the technical mark. I think that if Kimmie nailed everything in her program, those 2 3-3s would beat out Mao's 3 axel and the questionable technique Mao has on some of her jumps.