USFSA vs. Weir?

[nymkfan51]

Having Kwan not giving her all may turn off many casual fans.
Joe

I'm not exactly sure of what you meant by this.

If you are referring to her not doing any jumps because of her injury, then I would hardly call that "not giving her all." She's giving every bit and more she can right now. And I can tell you from going to 2 COI shows, the fans seem to care less whether she jumps or not ... although I fully expect she will, once she has healed.

Or if you are referring to her in a more general sense, of not having the technical difficulty she has had in the past ... I think you're mistaken there too. I believe she will continue to draw in the fans no matter what the venue or format.

She's the Kween, after all!

 

[Mathman]

Still, I think Joe has a point. Supposing that Michelle will not be able to deliver a true competitive program come October, which would be the better format for the fall cheesefest?

Would skating fans rather see a nostagic exhibition from the ladies and gents that we have grow to love (Michelle, Irina, Fumie, Sasha). Or a real competition among the rising stars of the next generation?

MM

 

[attyfan]

Still, I think Joe has a point. Supposing that Michelle will not be able to deliver a true competitive program come October, which would be the better format for the fall cheesefest?

Would skating fans rather see a nostagic exhibition from the ladies and gents that we have grow to love (Michelle, Irina, Fumie, Sasha). Or a real competition among the rising stars of the next generation?

MM

Couldn't they have both -- a "technical program" and an "artistic one" -- modeled after the old pro-ams? Seriously, I think it might be nicer if they do a cheesefest that has something other than the same programs that we will see in competition. After all, there will plenty of "real competition(s) among the rising stars of the next generation" in the GP events, respective Nats, and/or Worlds. Furthermore, I doubt that if MK can't do a full program by October, she will stay in for the rest of the season (by which I mean she will either retire or announce that she is taking the rest of the season off to heal)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Couldn't they have both -- a "technical program" and an "artistic one" -- modeled after the old pro-ams? Seriously, I think it might be nicer if they do a cheesefest that has something other than the same programs that we will see in competition. After all, there will plenty of "real competition(s) among the rising stars of the next generation" in the GP events, respective Nats, and/or Worlds. Furthermore, I doubt that if MK can't do a full program by October, she will stay in for the rest of the season (by which I mean she will either retire or announce that she is taking the rest of the season off to heal)

MM picked up on my point about MK. Attyfan - Why do we have to butcher this sport more than it has already been? Can you picture a baseball game cut to 3 innings only? I think the sport should remain as it was intended. I don't think the sport should be catered to one particular skater. I am worried about the ratings with and without her.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

I agree with attyfan. I don't think the cheezefests should have to stick to the standard competitive format. There are seven GP events plus most Nationals plus Euros/4C's plus Olympics plus Worlds that use it. It would be nice to see the exhibition/artistic programs televised. But my opinion is neutral to Kwan's participation. I think it would be nice to see Lambiel, Arakawa, Suguri, Weir, Cohen, etc. in an artistic program.

 

[attyfan]

MM picked up on my point about MK. Attyfan - Why do we have to butcher this sport more than it has already been? Can you picture a baseball game cut to 3 innings only? I think the sport should remain as it was intended. I don't think the sport should be catered to one particular skater. I am worried about the ratings with and without her.

Joe

My point is that a cheesefest, with a format that allows them to include skaters who can't otherwise compete is no more "butchering" the sport than is a Little League baseball game, simply because the kids there don't do (or at least, shouldn't be doing) the same things that the MLB players are doing. The sport of baseball is big enough to include Little League and MLB, and the sport of figure skating should be big enough to include more than the type required for Worlds and/or Olys.

Back to the original topic (is the USFSA picking on Johnny Weir?) -- the latest article (on skaters raising money for autism) emphasizes Weir's participation (see the picture):

http://www.usfigureskating.org/event_story.asp?id=34297

 

[nymkfan51]

Joe, I agree with attyfan. The cheesefests are not what define this sport. There is a lengthy competitive season to satisfy those who really prefer the competitive portion of the sport.
I like the idea of the October cheesefest being a competition .. getting to see everyone's new programs. But I also like the idea of the winter and spring cheesefests being totally different. Maybe the December Marshalls could be a team event like they used to have ... and the spring one, IMO, should NOT be a competition. Not when they are already in exhibition/COI mode. I liked the one they had this year.

And I stand by what I have said previously ... people will go to see MK skate for many years to come, no matter what she does. And don't think the TV folks don't know that. You see how many people show up this coming year if Michelle isn't able to participate.

 

[Mathman]

Back to the original topic (is the USFSA picking on Johnny Weir?) -- the latest article (on skaters raising money for autism) emphasizes Weir's participation (see the picture):

http://www.usfigureskating.org/event_story.asp?id=34297

Hey, no fair. By putting a big picture of Johnny's puzzle on their website, the USFS is pushing Johnny's puzzle more so than Evan Lysacek's and Ben Agosto's.

The bid on Johnny's is up to $55, compared to only $25 for Evan's and Ben's.

The leaders so far? Tied at $165 are Scarlett Johanssen ("World's Sexiest Woman, 2006") and James Watson (geneticist who co-discovered the structure of DNA).

 

[Mathman]

I agree with attyfan. I don't think the cheezefests should have to stick to the standard competitive format. There are seven GP events plus most Nationals plus Euros/4C's plus Olympics plus Worlds that use it. It would be nice to see the exhibition/artistic programs televised. But my opinion is neutral to Kwan's participation. I think it would be nice to see Lambiel, Arakawa, Suguri, Weir, Cohen, etc. in an artistic program.

The problem, IMHO, is that none of these competitions (except U.S. Nationals and the Olympics every four years) is shown on major network TV. The only skating the average channel flipper ever sees is Katarina Witt and friends skate to the music of Kenny Rogers.

I thought it was really cool in 2003 and 2004 to get to see the best skaters in the world go head to head in real competition three times a year. OK, maybe it wasn't "serious-as-a-heart-attack" competition, but the skaters brought their quads and triple combos, and they tried to skate their best and claim the victory over their rivals.

It was one of the cheesefests (2003 Campbell's?) where Sasha put herself on the map by beating Michelle for the first time.

In fact, I would argue the other way around. We have plenty of opportunities to see show skating and exhibitions. It is the competitive side of the sport that is in decline.

JMO.

Mathman

 

[nymkfan51]

MM, Sasha beat Michelle at the Campbells event at MSG, and I agree that should remain a competition.
Since COI is no longer televised, you don't really see the eligible skaters in exhibition style skating on TV anymore. And just from hearing how folks felt about the Marshalls event earlier this month, it seems to indicate they actually enjoyed it more than the past several April cheesefests.

 

[Ladskater]

Sigh...what ever happened to the "good old days" of figure skating - when the likes of Donald Jackson, Barbara Ann Scott and Tenley Albright graced the ice. Their names were never mentioned in cheap Scandal rags. They stood for something good and positive in the world of figure skating. In fact, they would never dream of sullying the name of figure skating. They were an inspiration to every kid who laced up their skates at their local rink. Oh well, I guess that's the name of the game now - ever since the Kerrigan/Harding scandal, people have been trying to find something to tarnish figure skating. I guess Weir is as good or bad a poster boy for the job. More power to him!!!

There is my Rant!

:sheesh:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

nymkfan51 - the way I read you is that whatever suits MK be it a competition or a phone-in-favorite or just a Sunday afternoon exhibition is just fine with you. Since she is the draw card then Campbells and Marshalls will do what she will appear in. Forget competitions.

As to so many competitions coming up. That would mean GP series with limited top tier skaters. Euros which is a classic. 4CC which will get all those skaters who do not do well in their Nationals. the actual Nationals and then the Worlds. I suppose we could also count those small European contests which hardly anyone on this Board posts about. Yeah, there will be a lot of high level interest in competitions.

As to Exhibitions there will be plenty especially during holiday seasons so Campbells and Marshalls will add to the festivities.

Since there will not be any upcoming competitions until GPs, we can not expect the skaters (especially from those who do not do GPs) to knock themselves out with improving their technical. I think we will see a rehash of the spring Marshalls. Same routine/different music/nothing new. Maybe a new gimmick.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I agree with attyfan. I don't think the cheezefests should have to stick to the standard competitive format. There are seven GP events plus most Nationals plus Euros/4C's plus Olympics plus Worlds that use it. It would be nice to see the exhibition/artistic programs televised. But my opinion is neutral to Kwan's participation. I think it would be nice to see Lambiel, Arakawa, Suguri, Weir, Cohen, etc. in an artistic program.

Hockeyfan - You know as well as anyone that there will be 'star' competitors who will not skate in GPs. I'm not against an Exhibition Night of Campbells and Marshalls.

What I don't want is to be deceived again that it is a competition when it isn't. also I'm not against gimmicks if they apply equal to all the competitors which rules out phone-in-your favorite.

Joe

 

[rob43]

Cheesefests are called cheesefests because they are 90% cheese/ 10% content. The pro-ams of old where Boitano, Yamaguchi and even skaters like Cadavy worked the rears off to be competitive are a better model. I think the old format of limiting programs to 3 triples or the 99 World Pro format of a Tech program and an artistic one would be better. It lets those who can jump jump and those who can perform perform.

Also- cheesefests never put anyone on the map- & no skater lists them as a career highpoint. Sasha's coming out moments where 00 US NAts SP and the 02 Olympics where she dazzled in the short.

I actually like when they have a different format for a competition which lets skaters show skills and tricks but with less pressure/more attention to program. Its a nice balance to big competitions or tour performances.

 

[R.D.]

Then in that case, is it really FAIR to call events like Campbell's, which are actual competitions, "cheesefests"? In this case sounds like the REAL cheesefests are the old team events or even the phone-in thing in December last year.

 

[Tonichelle]

I've not read this particular article, but on the Johnny Weir vs USFSA front. It's not like he didn't know he wasn't going to piss them off. He came off in several interviews around olympic time as being one who didn't care and hoped to annoy them further.

Then after the olympics he didn't understand all the negative press and opinions he heard about himself

It seems to me he can dish it out, but doesn't want to take it. So either he quit being the new USFSA diva OR he grow a backbone and a thicker skin. That's how the real world (at least in the public eye) works. It's nothing new. He has to take the harsh words they way he says he does in his fluff pieces, or he should just stay PC (politically correct).

 

[SeaniBu]

It is rather disheartening to see that people are more interested in "barking" than "letting the paperboy deliver the news."

I am starting to understand Joesitz signature a little more.

Cheese has it's place, sometimes you may just want broccoli, but a little cheese might be nice now and then. But there are those who are just lactose intolerant.

The "phone in thang," whatever.....There could be a little more coming from the judges as a reality check. Remember the Rupert and Clay situation on American Idol? The little teeny boppers with daddies' cell phone, are always prone to vote for the cutest. The Judges really had to bring attention to that - making the viewers more aware of tallent. The MK bandwagon has brought on a lot of "know very little" fans. And unfortunatly, not many of them have progressed into a "connoisseur" learning, noticing, and becoming interested in the other fantastic athletes - or at least learning more then just the most current competitors.

Yah the MK thing is rather queer. She brings attention, but mainly just to her - not her fault, Fans blow wind. The problem now is articles like this and the lack of input either allowed or submitted by the athletes and international skating comity. That "wind" needs a positive direction. That has always been an issue with almost everything. I know I keep bringing this up, but.... The real time scoreboard would at least help some of these "flight of fancy" fans understand how good the others are. Most of the time they won't listen unless it is about their fav - so show them. JAT (again)

Johnny, he is going to get attention and going to repel attention. He skates for Johnny, that's who he is. It is just a sign of the times that he gets the attention only when negative. And I hope that was a real finger, some jerk probably should have kept their mouth shut, and he had to refrain from "lift off of the bird." He has ever right to use his fingers to express an opinion (besides it comes from the French archers showing the British they still have their middle finger - indicating they have not been captured and can still fire a bow - and has only become "obscene" because someone said so - he used it fittingly IMO). Some people as always feel like they need to steel the show, but they should realize they have a "place" too - respect. There is a "heckler in every crowd," or a reporter screwing up the facts. I don't think that they should be beet-up or even flipped off, but they should keep their mouths shut from the negative or incorrect. How about "security" remove them - like they would ever do anything that involved work, plus the dramma sells in both "arenas." Respect for others is generally waning (why do you think persons "jump on the down") and the only thing that will make it better is if people own up to their part, get the story straight and let others enjoy theirs.

If you liked it clap, if you didn't don't.

Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen)

Really sick of the careless reporting not getting facts straight. You would think those "educated individuals" would know how to use Google at very least.

 

[hockeyfan228]

What I don't want is to be deceived again that it is a competition when it isn't. also I'm not against gimmicks if they apply equal to all the competitors which rules out phone-in-your favorite.

I put the cheezefests in the same category I put professional competitions. Even the World Pro title (which was much coveted), because it was by invitation only, and not all professional skaters could try to qualify. That made it rigged, in my opinion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What I am reading is that there are no real competitions other than those organized by the ISU (not necessarily ISU approved). So I contend that we should forget competitions as long as we have Exhibitions. That will be enough. Nats and Worlds are suficient. with the newcomers doing the GPs (which we will never see anyway.)

We are not that interested in the sport of figure skating but moreso in it's perceived artistry. We can decide among ourselves who skated the best exhibition. Kind of like which dancer does the best Sleeping Beauty.

Joe

 

[nymkfan51]

nymkfan51 - the way I read you is that whatever suits MK be it a competition or a phone-in-favorite or just a Sunday afternoon exhibition is just fine with you. Since she is the draw card then Campbells and Marshalls will do what she will appear in. Forget competitions.
Joe

Why do you deliberately misinterpret what I say, Joe? Sheesh!!
Did you even read my posts?

Nobody wants to see competitions go by the wayside, least of all me. Do I want to see Michelle skate for a long, long time to come? Yes, I do ... and I don't care in what format that is. But ... here's where you get it wrong ... I don't suggest the powers that be should revolve every event around what Michelle can do. I believe I even said I thought Campbells should remain a competition. The only event I would like changed to an exhibition is the spring one ...which is how I have felt for a long time. It comes after a long season when the skaters are already in COI mode, and it seems ill-placed to me for them to compete in a rather meaningless competition so soon after Worlds.
The December cheesefest ... I don't really care, if you want the truth.
And about last year's one ... I hated the format (even though MK won) It was totally screwed up, IMO. Personally, if there's going to be a competition, I want one with real judges ... otherwise, just give me a fun and beautiful exhibition.

And in the end, (and I am making an assumption here), I think we would all like for skating to be successful so that we get to see it on tv for years to come ... and right now, the fact is that Michelle brings in viewers, plain and simple. And honestly, it doesn't matter if the viewers are educated skating fans or not ... money is money to the advertisers. So of course they would like her as a participant .. for now. But when the day comes that people aren't interested in seeing her, they will drop her like a hot potato. That should give some folks warm and fuzzy feelings.