Virtue and Moir capture second Olympic gold

[peepsquick]

I try really hard not to be bias. I believe full heartedly even if I was not Canadian I'd prefer v/m over p/c. In my world it just isnt even close. I have never put down the french team. I think they truly are fantastic and they are clear favorites to win worlds. They just have skills and flow on the ice like no one else (other than v/m) I have always been hard on the judging however. I have disagreed many times.. even with the olympics I thought the Ice Dance judging was completely out of wack. It was certain SP events that helped V/M win the gold. If that had not of happened I believe the french would of still won but because of what happened the judges needed to let v/m win because of fear they'd be caught. I mean there were so many things like giving the french positive 3 GOEs on twizzles that had multiple mistakes etc that had me mystified. I was even mystified how the french won the FD.. I mean just listen to that crowd after V/M .. that tells you enough right there they had seen an olympic winning skate.. for v/m to be 2nd in the FD is outrageous. But Karma I think came back and rewarded the Canadians and left the Russian and the French federations out in the dust (not the skaters... the "higer ups"). Especially with the pairs event. I thought forsure because the CDN team won bronze (fully deserved btw) over the Russian team that the judges would of had something to say about that in the dance skates. Oh the drama.. What an olympics it was!

I am still baffled at how some fans lose total perspective and contribute more or less willingly to perpetuate the myth of the perfect dance couple (in this case V/M).
They are excellent but they are not always the best and looking back, never have been perfect. Thank God, you don't win the Olympics by acclamation because then, you just need an arena full of your fans!
You can idealize your favorites but justifying their losses by seeing conspiracy everywhere is tiresome and noxious for the field.

 

[jersey1302]

Agreed.. I am aware v/m have had mistakes in programs etc and deservedly did not win those events or have scores they wanted in the past. This Olympics was completely different though. They didnt step one foot wrong anywhere. The french did. That score margin after the SD should of been much greater. P/C SD was a complete gong show and should of been well back. 4-5 points in my opinion. FD was a different story. I think V/M should of still won the FD but the score could of been within a point or two. And its not a conspiracy when the facts have came out that in pretty much every olympics, Ice Dance has had judging issues with fixing. Its notorious for it. This year was pretty black and white though. All you need to do is look at the score sheets and the elements that had major issues including PCS with that malfunction on the dress which caused a H U G E distraction almost the entire length of the dance. Yet they still received almost all perfect scores of 10 on PCS.. Sorry no one can tell me thats justified.

 

[peepsquick]

Agreed.. I am aware v/m have had mistakes in programs etc and deservedly did not win those events or have scores they wanted in the past. This Olympics was completely different though. They didnt step one foot wrong anywhere. The french did. That score margin after the SD should of been much greater. P/C SD was a complete gong show and should of been well back. 4-5 points in my opinion. FD was a different story. I think V/M should of still won the FD but the score could of been within a point or two. And its not a conspiracy when the facts have came out that in pretty much every olympics, Ice Dance has had judging issues with fixing. Its notorious for it. This year was pretty black and white though. All you need to do is look at the score sheets and the elements that had major issues including PCS with that malfunction on the dress which caused a H U G E distraction almost the entire length of the dance. Yet they still received almost all perfect scores of 10 on PCS.. Sorry no one can tell me thats justified.

I remind you that there is no link between the history of fixing scores in Ice Dance and Papadakis-Cizeron, for example. The rumours started because they had a huge leap in rankings 2014-15. That had never happened before in Ice Dance, therefore, it must have been fishy! Then people got on the bandwagon, remembering Gailhaguet's checkered past and his big mouth last year before the OG.
How about just looking at the skaters. They do not present the feat of athleticism that V/M bring. But then, this is not required either. What they bring is a glide superior to V/M (I and others disagree with you on that one), a technical ability equal to them (see the scores, read what specialists in the field say) and an artistic bend that might or might not appeal. How about enjoying differences between skaters instead of always disparaging?
The fear of V/M losing was so great, imo, that lots of "fans" were shouting deceit before anything started. First off, it shows the lack of real confidence towards the ability of your team. Second, it shows that you have left figure skating appreciation territory and are now in uber-territory. Let's congratulate V/M on their win and give them the appreciation they deserve, one based on their real awesome abilities.

 

[Off My Rocker]

How about just looking at the skaters. They do not present the feat of athleticism that V/M bring. But then, this is not required either. What they bring is a glide superior to V/M (I and others disagree with you on that one), a technical ability equal to them (see the scores, read what specialists in the field say) and an artistic bend that might or might not appeal. How about enjoying differences between skaters instead of always disparaging?
The fear of V/M losing was so great, imo, that lots of "fans" were shouting deceit before anything started. First off, it shows the lack of real confidence towards the ability of your team. Second, it shows that you have left figure skating appreciation territory and are now in uber-territory. Let's congratulate V/M on their win and give them the appreciation they deserve, one based on their real awesome abilities.

Yes, I agree. I am one fan who appreciates the talent of both these teams; each has innate blade and performance abilities. I just see them as having different ways of presenting their superior skills. I liken V&M to ‘fire and earth’ (hotly passionate) and P&C to ‘air and water’ (ethereally fluid). Both teams are remarkably talented, no doubt each team having benefited and improved from training together, the result being the variety of incredibly perfected performances for us fans to enjoy.

IMO, the overall result was as close as it should have been.

 

[ladyjane]

Another discussion to relish...before the OG quite a few people shouted "conspiracy" because P/C won the GPF, and the marks were already set before the OG even started according to some, then poor Gaby had a constume malfunction and I saw people noting that they were placed too high despite all of that (even some remarks that V/M were put down), and finally that P/C shouldn't have won the FD. I am not a fan of V/M at all (in fact I dislike SM because he's an unsportsmanlike person) and don't like their dances. They don't move me, while P/C's dances do. Ever since they first won a WC. Do I say, there's a conspiracy going on against P/C? No, I don't. I think V/M got the points in total, and that's it. Would I have preferred P/C to win? I would, but they didn't. That's all.

 

[Stellka]

Another discussion to relish...before the OG quite a few people shouted "conspiracy" because P/C won the GPF, and the marks were already set before the OG even started according to some, then poor Gaby had a constume malfunction and I saw people noting that they were placed too high despite all of that (even some remarks that V/M were put down), and finally that P/C shouldn't have won the FD. I am not a fan of V/M at all (in fact I dislike SM because he's an unsportsmanlike person) and don't like their dances. They don't move me, while P/C's dances do. Ever since they first won a WC. Do I say, there's a conspiracy going on against P/C? No, I don't. I think V/M got the points in total, and that's it. Would I have preferred P/C to win? I would, but they didn't. That's all.

Why do you say SM is a unsportsmanlike person? Just curious.

 

[Matt K]

Why do you say SM is a unsportsmanlike person? Just curious.

Unfortunately, skaters speaking their minds is not encouraged in these skating circle forums such as these. That is probably the basis for the quite baseless claim about him being "unsportsmanlike". One can choose to label a skater or team "unclassy" or "unsportsmanlike" or whatnot based on personal hatred or jealousy of said team/skater. Does not mean that it holds any truth.

In fact, I have been very confused and perplexed about P/C's recent unclassy comments and jabs towards V/M that now make me feel that they really weren't destined or deserving to win gold. Saying one's training partners/rivals caused one so much stress and that now that they aren't at Worlds, that one can perform stress-free and perform so much more relaxed, are just not words that are associated with champions. If P/C just hated the pressure and stress from having to compete with V/M, what will they do when H/B or H/D start challenging them soon? (not saying that they will)

Had V/M sat out last season and only returned to competition at this Olympic year (2018), they would've beat P/C so handily and mightily without question. V/M let P/C catch up to them during the 2016-2017 year where P/C got defeated by V/M and learned to get better. Without this "dry run" season, and V/M launching a surprise comeback in 2017-2018, P/C would not have the benefit or insight of knowing or improving on the SD or what it would take to beat V/M. This was a gift by V/M, for sure. And V/M are not young people, physically, they are not in the prime in any way, shape or form.

So I just do not know why P/C keep on bemoaning the presence of V/M in competitions like they are some stressful cancer. They should thank V/M for returning to competition for allowing them to improve and get better, IMO. Both teams should, actually. And let us not forget, that P/C had zero competition this entire quad. ZERO. With I/K splitting up, this unfortunately ended any possibility of a I/K - P/C showdown. Another gift to P/C. An I/K - P/C - V/M showdown would have been a treat to all ice dance fans, judges, and all fans of sports.

 

[maya1985]

Unfortunately, skaters speaking their minds is not encouraged in these skating circle forums such as these. That is probably the basis for the quite baseless claim about him being "unsportsmanlike". One can choose to label a skater or team "unclassy" or "unsportsmanlike" or whatnot based on personal hatred or jealousy of said team/skater. Does not mean that it holds any truth.

In fact, I have been very confused and perplexed about P/C's recent unclassy comments and jabs towards V/M that now make me feel that they really weren't destined or deserving to win gold. Saying one's training partners/rivals caused one so much stress and that now that they aren't at Worlds, that one can perform stress-free and perform so much more relaxed, are just not words that are associated with champions. If P/C just hated the pressure and stress from having to compete with V/M, what will they do when H/B or H/D start challenging them soon? (not saying that they will)

Had V/M sat out last season and only returned to competition at this Olympic year (2018), they would've beat P/C so handily and mightily without question. V/M let P/C catch up to them during the 2016-2017 year where P/C got defeated by V/M and learned to get better. Without this "dry run" season, and V/M launching a surprise comeback in 2017-2018, P/C would not have the benefit or insight of knowing or improving on the SD or what it would take to beat V/M. This was a gift by V/M, for sure. And V/M are not young people, physically, they are not in the prime in any way, shape or form.

So I just do not know why P/C keep on bemoaning the presence of V/M in competitions like they are some stressful cancer. They should thank V/M for returning to competition for allowing them to improve and get better, IMO. Both teams should, actually. And let us not forget, that P/C had zero competition this entire quad. ZERO. With I/K splitting up, this unfortunately ended any possibility of a I/K - P/C showdown. Another gift to P/C. An I/K - P/C - V/M showdown would have been a treat to all ice dance fans, judges, and all fans of sports.

:disagree::noshake: This kind of message is sad

 

[Anyasnake]

Unfortunately, skaters speaking their minds is not encouraged in these skating circle forums such as these. That is probably the basis for the quite baseless claim about him being "unsportsmanlike". One can choose to label a skater or team "unclassy" or "unsportsmanlike" or whatnot based on personal hatred or jealousy of said team/skater. Does not mean that it holds any truth.

In fact, I have been very confused and perplexed about P/C's recent unclassy comments and jabs towards V/M that now make me feel that they really weren't destined or deserving to win gold. Saying one's training partners/rivals caused one so much stress and that now that they aren't at Worlds, that one can perform stress-free and perform so much more relaxed, are just not words that are associated with champions. If P/C just hated the pressure and stress from having to compete with V/M, what will they do when H/B or H/D start challenging them soon? (not saying that they will)

Had V/M sat out last season and only returned to competition at this Olympic year (2018), they would've beat P/C so handily and mightily without question. V/M let P/C catch up to them during the 2016-2017 year where P/C got defeated by V/M and learned to get better. Without this "dry run" season, and V/M launching a surprise comeback in 2017-2018, P/C would not have the benefit or insight of knowing or improving on the SD or what it would take to beat V/M. This was a gift by V/M, for sure. And V/M are not young people, physically, they are not in the prime in any way, shape or form.

So I just do not know why P/C keep on bemoaning the presence of V/M in competitions like they are some stressful cancer. They should thank V/M for returning to competition for allowing them to improve and get better, IMO. Both teams should, actually. And let us not forget, that P/C had zero competition this entire quad. ZERO. With I/K splitting up, this unfortunately ended any possibility of a I/K - P/C showdown. Another gift to P/C. An I/K - P/C - V/M showdown would have been a treat to all ice dance fans, judges, and all fans of sports.

Where is the issue in acknowledging very tough competition ? In being humble and admitting how stressful that was instead of pretending to be warriors and not worry about it, when in fact they did ?
Not a lot of people would admit that they were stressed because of a big ego. Not their case. They say things as they are, and that's great, I don't really see an issue. As you said, let the skaters speak their minds...

And if they were that anxious, stressed, etc, how did they managed to turn the situation to their advantage in the 2017-2018 season, win GPF and skate better everytime barring the Olys SD ? Knowing that it was their 1st quad, they got defeated everytime time the last season against crazy competitors that have so much experience, planned precisely their comeback for almost 2 years, are so popular, etc. Everybody forgets about that.

But if you think these comments are "unclassy", you probably read a bad translation . There truly was nothing unclassy, they did not even speak directly about them, but about competition in general. They never talked directly about Tessa & Scott, except to say at the Olympics : "They were better". They also said that having competition at the rink was stressful but helped them get better. V/M were already used to that, not P/C - at all. Do you remember in what state of mind V/M were in Sochi, and how unhealthy it looked like ? It just takes time to get used to it, we should stop thinking that the athletes are machines. I don't recall V/M thanking D/W after Sochi either

And I wouldn't say that they are not champions considering what they put on the ice at the Olympics after that terrible incident. That is per definition, the mind of a champion.

I don't know where you are from (?), but in France, we say things as they are, especially athletes. Acknowledging how tough, stressful and difficult the competition is makes it better when you win, but helps you be in some sort of realistic situation also (and it's a form of respect for the opponents). If you can beat them do so, if you can't, it's also fine.
And if tomorrow there is new competition, they will have learned from their past mistakes. That's how it works. They learn in 2 years what some skaters learn in almost a decade. They'll know how to handle it this time.

 

[BillNeal]

I actually would love to have seen a V/M, P/C, D/W, and I/K showdown at OG 2018. What a final flight that would have been if they are all at their best (probably there would have been some intense fanwars though ).

 

[Matt K]

Where is the issue in acknowledging very tough competition ? In being humble and admitting how stressful that was instead of pretending to be warriors and not worry about it, when in fact they did ?
Not a lot of people would admit that they were stressed because of a big ego. Not their case. They say things as they are, and that's great, I don't really see an issue. As you said, let the skaters speak their minds...
.

The topic of "unsportsmanlike behavior" came up by someone in this thread not too many posts ago. I am not saying that being ungrateful counts as being unsportsmanlike, but some may perceive the two to be closely associated. P/C during Worlds and even after worlds, I believe both P and C, especially Papadakis, made comments about how relieved and happy they were to be skating without the stressful presence of V/M. I am not judging them, but I was, again as I said, quite perplexed. Could you imagine Lindsey Vonn or Michael Phelps saying how much of a relief it is not to have their rivals at a ski or swim event? Just not something that champions would say or feel, IMO. What will they do if H/D or even god forbid H/B start seriously challenging them soon?

I am not trying to cast aspersions on them, but I think that P/C were so sure that they would win Olympic gold even before the season started and especially after the GPF. They even skipped the team event. Good for them for being so competitive and driven. But I don't think this season was at all an anomaly.

Prior to 2016-2017, P/C had literally NO competition. Lucky that I/K split and were no more, because they were getting astronomical marks in PCS and GOE by the time they split. During these couple of years, P/C literally in an interview said that they were not worried about getting all +3 GOE elements because they thought they could still win. V/M shook them out of their complacency when they returned, and I believe that if V/M made their comeback a year later at the time of the Olympics, there would be no competition at all. P/C would not be able to learn and catch up (especially SD) and V/M would be undoubted Olympic champions once again.

I look forward to what H/B, P/C, H/D, C/B, S/B, and others will contribute to the next 4 years.

 

[Anyasnake]

The topic of "unsportsmanlike behavior" came up by someone in this thread not too many posts ago. I am not saying that being ungrateful counts as being unsportsmanlike, but some may perceive the two to be closely associated. P/C during Worlds and even after worlds, I believe both P and C, especially Papadakis, made comments about how relieved and happy they were to be skating without the stressful presence of V/M. I am not judging them, but I was, again as I said, quite perplexed. Could you imagine Lindsey Vonn or Michael Phelps saying how much of a relief it is not to have their rivals at a ski or swim event? Just not something that champions would say or feel, IMO. What will they do if H/D or even god forbid H/B start seriously challenging them soon?

I am not trying to cast aspersions on them, but I think that P/C were so sure that they would win Olympic gold even before the season started and especially after the GPF. They even skipped the team event. Good for them for being so competitive and driven. But I don't think this season was at all an anomaly.

Prior to 2016-2017, P/C had literally NO competition. Lucky that I/K split and were no more, because they were getting astronomical marks in PCS and GOE by the time they split. During these couple of years, P/C literally in an interview said that they were not worried about getting all +3 GOE elements because they thought they could still win. V/M shook them out of their complacency when they returned, and I believe that if V/M made their comeback a year later at the time of the Olympics, there would be no competition at all. P/C would not be able to learn and catch up (especially SD) and V/M would be undoubted Olympic champions once again.

I look forward to what H/B, P/C, H/D, C/B, S/B, and others will contribute to the next 4 years.

So if P/C are unsportmanlike, it's just somebody's opinion since they clearly are not.
Yes P/C said how unstressful Worlds were, but never quoted V/M. H/D, WeaPo, all said it actually, several times, how unstressful the competition was because the Olympic pressure had gone. It was clear seeing everybody' skates : they were all much better than what they did the month prior to Worlds.
I don't know if I can picture Phelps or Vonn say that, because again, they are american, P/C are French. It truly plays as I stated before : in France you are not afraid to speak your mind, otherwise you are pictured as hypocritical.

No, they did not think they would win Olympics at all at the beginning. After Skate Canada, there was a interview, I think with L'équipe (?), where they were asked : "your rivals skated so well, what do you think ?". Gaby said : "It's so damn annoying that they were SO good" (again it's a "funny" statement because this is how it works there, but also a form of respect). She added : "We'll do our best at CoC, and if we can compete with them it's great, if not, we'll address that, because it's fine too.". They wanted to start the season realistically (they were very careful not to get ahead in case they'll end up disappointed).

They skipped the Team Event because they did not have any center to train after that event. They would have been allowed to train half an hour a day max, for more than a week which is absolutely impossible. But not having any rink to train is an issue that has to do with the Federation - I don't know how it happenned, but I did not like it at all. They actually planned to do it at first (they said that after Euros). I'm hoping for Beijing the fed will have everything settled. How stupid was that mistake ?

We don't know what would ave happenned if I/K was still here, because in my mind you can put the 2 best skaters in the world, if you don't have everything around you going well and a bad behaviour, you're cooked. Otherwise they would have had Europeans and World titles already. I'm sure 100% in this forum wanted them to stay together, but what can I say... a waste of a split.
I was all for V/M return. P/C being my favourite team, they were distancing themselves from everyone after 2016 Worlds, and needed to be challenged to get better. Imagine one second, you're 13th at worlds then 1st, then 1st again... of course it helped them having constant big competition, they said it multiple times. I don't expect them to write a book about it though

But all that to say : we're from different countries, and the way athletes speak is very different. I've always noticed how in North America you must be quite controlled with your statements not to look bad, try to turn the situation to your advantage, etc. In France, we just don't care and we say things as they are because nobody got time for that. Martin Fourcade says his sport is crap and that's why he loves it so much. One french swimmer said how angry he was to place behind another one because his urine was purple (doping). And Guillaume will say without filter how boring it is to watch compulsories for example. That is nothing unsportsmanlike, just some people aren't afraid to voice their opinon, and we shouldn't think they are PR machines. Didn't Scott took a lot of backash for being opinionated ?
(We shouldn't let some misuderstandings put some skaters down - usually there many translations in the Fan Threads of pretty much any foreign article we can find).

And me too, I can't wait for the new quad to start !

 

[chuckm]

Fact is P/C had NO CHANCE in the Short Dance when Gaby's costume came apart. The huge advantage to V/M after the SD because of the P/C costume failure is what gave V/M the gold medal.

 

[Stellka]

That was the universe correcting itself and fixing what would have been one the greatest injustices in sports

 

[Giselle]

So P/C get criticized for saying they are happy their main rivals (V/M) were not at Worlds and H/D get criticized for saying they are unhappy their main rivals (S/S) were not at Worlds...

It's a lose-lose situation isn't it?

 

[maya1985]

The topic of "unsportsmanlike behavior" came up by someone in this thread not too many posts ago. I am not saying that being ungrateful counts as being unsportsmanlike, but some may perceive the two to be closely associated. P/C during Worlds and even after worlds, I believe both P and C, especially Papadakis, made comments about how relieved and happy they were to be skating without the stressful presence of V/M. I am not judging them, but I was, again as I said, quite perplexed. Could you imagine Lindsey Vonn or Michael Phelps saying how much of a relief it is not to have their rivals at a ski or swim event? Just not something that champions would say or feel, IMO. What will they do if H/D or even god forbid H/B start seriously challenging them soon?

I am not trying to cast aspersions on them, but I think that P/C were so sure that they would win Olympic gold even before the season started and especially after the GPF. They even skipped the team event. Good for them for being so competitive and driven. But I don't think this season was at all an anomaly.

Prior to 2016-2017, P/C had literally NO competition. Lucky that I/K split and were no more, because they were getting astronomical marks in PCS and GOE by the time they split. During these couple of years, P/C literally in an interview said that they were not worried about getting all +3 GOE elements because they thought they could still win. V/M shook them out of their complacency when they returned, and I believe that if V/M made their comeback a year later at the time of the Olympics, there would be no competition at all. P/C would not be able to learn and catch up (especially SD) and V/M would be undoubted Olympic champions once again.

I look forward to what H/B, P/C, H/D, C/B, S/B, and others will contribute to the next 4 years.

It's not true: in 2014/2015, Gabriella and Guillaume were not really the favorites to be world champions (at the beginning of the year, they were aiming for a top 10 and after the European championships, the objective was a podium) but hey I guess you want to forget W/P, C/L, C/B ...:sarcasm:
2015/2016: yes, they were the favorites but Gabriella's concussion deprived them of any competition before the European Championships. I'm not sure they were the only favorites in Boston (S/S)
Finally, the only world championships where they are really the only big favorites is Milan ... They were so sure to win that they did the bare minimum ... beating 3 world records and raising all public.

You may not appreciate their artistic proposal (I understood that character interpretation was fundamental for you), but you can avoid saying anything: they were not sure of winning the Olympic Games, they have just been very disappointed and bruised (the shorts were complicated to manage). You can also recognize that it's cruel to them. But you're right they should have been happy for V/M.

You can not blame Gaby for being happy to be able to skate without a problem (dress) and yes without the pressure of the Olympic Games (some have also criticized her because she did not smile enough at the Olympic Games ... can she breathe freely?)

 

[Anyasnake]

So P/C get criticized for saying they are happy their main rivals (V/M) were not at Worlds and H/D get criticized for saying they are unhappy their main rivals (S/S) were not at Worlds...

It's a lose-lose situation isn't it?

People want to find excuse to hate on the rival teams of their favourite. In other sports it's perfectly normal. A reminder that figure skating is one.

 

[lyndichee]

The topic of "unsportsmanlike behavior" came up by someone in this thread not too many posts ago. I am not saying that being ungrateful counts as being unsportsmanlike, but some may perceive the two to be closely associated. P/C during Worlds and even after worlds, I believe both P and C, especially Papadakis, made comments about how relieved and happy they were to be skating without the stressful presence of V/M. I am not judging them, but I was, again as I said, quite perplexed. Could you imagine Lindsey Vonn or Michael Phelps saying how much of a relief it is not to have their rivals at a ski or swim event? Just not something that champions would say or feel, IMO. What will they do if H/D or even god forbid H/B start seriously challenging them soon?

I am not trying to cast aspersions on them, but I think that P/C were so sure that they would win Olympic gold even before the season started and especially after the GPF. They even skipped the team event. Good for them for being so competitive and driven. But I don't think this season was at all an anomaly.

I really don't get why this means they were unsportsmanlike. It is as if Gabby has to apologize for being honest about her feelings; given that a team who has beaten them to every skater's ultimate goal in their skating career isn't present, they must be skating with less pressure. She was stating more of a fact than anything.

I don't see how P/C acted as if they were going to win Olympic gold. If they truly believed they were going to get handed that gold, then they wouldn't have put in so much work into their season. That is basically you implying that they were arrogant this season.

 

[IceCastles1814v]

I personally do not concern myself with holding skaters to rigid sportsmanship standards. They have worked hard their whole lives. Which is why some fans constant criticism of Scott for speaking his mind, but giving other skaters a free pass makes me roll my eyes. It's always blown up way beyond what actually happened and at times he wasn't the only one to say it.

Ugh about the costume being the only thing that cost PC. It did not even receive a deduction. Their mistakes cost them in SD and not even by as much as they could've.

 

[GoldenBoy]

I personally do not concern myself with holding skaters to rigid sportsmanship standards. They have worked hard their whole lives. Which is why some fans constant criticism of Scott for speaking his mind, but giving other skaters a free pass makes me roll my eyes. It's always blown up way beyond what actually happened and at times he wasn't the only one to say it.

Ugh about the costume being the only thing that cost PC. It did not even receive a deduction. Their mistakes cost them in SD and not even by as much as they could've.

Are you joking?
You all here start topic about what Cizeron and Papadakis said WRONG, not good and not a lot enough about v/M not considering which kind of stuff Scott and Tessa said earlier. It is not like you said, why are you talking like that? you start whining about what they said wrong while all those years Scott with his big ego talked too much . So maybe you with Matt.k should give a pass to P.C and let them talk freely when Scott many years back SPOKE HIS MIND ,without any problems and he didnt received any critism from you and you didnt seem to bother