WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

[[email protected]]

As a Russian citizen, do you still trust your leadership and media? Do you really want 'politics' to change and cast your vote accordingly?

AFAIK, the proven clean athletes can still compete in blank costumes and without their flag and anthem in the medal ceremony. Wether they personally want to, or are inhibited by their government actively boycotting a World Championships? Too early to tell.

Much depends now on how the Russian government and by extension the mass media under their control react and how the public opinion will be shaped. I can already imagine the shouting matches on Channel One's live "Время покажет": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcyDFewEvsk , where it has already begun.

I wrote earlier that there was a strong movement not to go to Korea. The government decided that the team would go despite that sentiment. It will be about the degree of humiliation Russia will have to incur. They can swallow paying all WADA's costs, although it is not logical. Russia did not order this investigation and did not control the expenditures. If WADA hired private jets, payed $1000 an hour to "experts", included into the bill restaurants and 5 star hotels, why should Russia pay for that? OK, costs is not the main thing.

The main thing is what athletes will be allowed to compete. If we have Rio when the only track-n-field athlete who was allowed to compete was Klishina who trained in the USA and decided after that to remain there then the only skater who will be allowed to go to the worlds will be Medvedeva. That would be a very sad joke. And if this happens in figure skating and other sports, yes boycot may follow. But I would understand it. I shall boycot figure skating if 3A are not allowed to compete.

 

[aka_gerbil]

The main thing is what athletes will be allowed to compete. If we have Rio when the only track-n-field athlete who was allowed to compete was Klishina who trained in the USA and decided after that to remain there then the only skater who will be allowed to go to the worlds will be Medvedeva.

There is also t/m, training in Florida.

 

[Xorasy]

All of you saying "but the poor clean athletes, why should they be punished as well? :sad21:". Well, you do know that it's either them or every clean athelete from every other country? It's awful, but it's better then the opposite. And as they said, if you can prove you're clean, you get to compete. Yeah there were definitely some people who didn't get to go to the olympics in 2018, that we thought should have. But the reality is, we don't know what's really going on on the inside. We don't have all of the information.
Let's say we have athlete A, who is clean, but doesn't get to go for some reason, yes it's awful for that person.
Say we don't have a ban and athlete B, who is not clean, gets to go, then it's "all the poor clean athles in that competition".
If you want to minimize the damage, "poor clean athletes", a ban might not be the best, but it's good.

 

[Scott512]

I wrote earlier that there was a strong movement not to go to Korea. The government decided that the team would go despite that sentiment. It will be about the degree of humiliation Russia will have to incur. They can swallow paying all WADA's costs, although it is not logical. Russia did not order this investigation and did not control the expenditures. If WADA hired private jets, payed $1000 an hour to "experts", included into the bill restaurants and 5 star hotels, why should Russia pay for that? OK, costs is not the main thing.

The main thing is what athletes will be allowed to compete. If we have Rio when the only track-n-field athlete who was allowed to compete was Klishina who trained in the USA and decided after that to remain there then the only skater who will be allowed to go to the worlds will be Medvedeva. That would be a very sad joke. And if this happens in figure skating and other sports, yes boycot may follow. But I would understand it. I shall boycot figure skating if 3A are not allowed to compete.

who do you blame Sam?

How did Russia screw this up again? Sad. I thought I read months ago that Russia would get its flag back for all International competitions including Olympics. The whole thing is so puzzling and mysterious.

If I was a Russian track and field athlete or a Russian swimmer I would leave Russia as soon as possible and train elsewhere like that Yulia Efimova girl does. Go back to visit family and friends but there is no reason for them to stay at all.

And it would be a real disaster if Russia or Olympic athletes of Russia got banned from Beijing game so we didn't get to see the figure skaters are. That would be an epic disaster.

 

[Sjs5572]

I wrote earlier that there was a strong movement not to go to Korea. The government decided that the team would go despite that sentiment. It will be about the degree of humiliation Russia will have to incur. They can swallow paying all WADA's costs, although it is not logical. Russia did not order this investigation and did not control the expenditures. If WADA hired private jets, payed $1000 an hour to "experts", included into the bill restaurants and 5 star hotels, why should Russia pay for that? OK, costs is not the main thing.

The main thing is what athletes will be allowed to compete. If we have Rio when the only track-n-field athlete who was allowed to compete was Klishina who trained in the USA and decided after that to remain there then the only skater who will be allowed to go to the worlds will be Medvedeva. That would be a very sad joke. And if this happens in figure skating and other sports, yes boycot may follow. But I would understand it. I shall boycot figure skating if 3A are not allowed to compete.

Don't worry. With the exception of track and field, it will be another slap on the wrist. Also, I don't think the fees should be a problem after the $50 Billion Sochi boondoggle.

 

[[email protected]]

who do you blame Sam?

I can't say. Russian government? Sports that became a political weapon and business rather than a vehicle to unite nations as De Coubertin dreamt? Double standards?

This is my opinion. It may be classified as another conspiracy theory. But again, that's what I think. In Beijing and London there were abnormal host country results. There were gossips about the wrong-doing, there were articles but there were no consequences whatsoever. Now Russia finally received its Olympics after 1980 Games which were boycotted by the West. 50 billion dollars was spent. 30 thousand volunteers enlisted. And, of course, it had to be the triumph of the Russian team. Looking at the predecessors from China and UK the officials did not think anything would be revealed if they cheat a little bit. And the last thing they thought was that the person who invented and supplied the "famous cocktail" will become the whisstle blower. But s... happens.

Yes, they cheated and were caught.

How did Russia screw this up again?

This is the key point. We are talking again about the past. I understand that WADA has no issues with the current Russian Olympic committee, they approved how Rusada was rebuilt. It's all about Sochi times when some of the current athletes were fresh from a kindergarten. We have the mismatch between 2 databases related to those times. WADA says that Russian lab made the changes. Russia said that they did not do that and accuse Rodchenkov. Who is right? I don't know and I don't care. I just see very unfair decisions affecting the future for the things that happened long time ago.

We have another round of favorite recent Western pastime of sanctions. Do they make the world better? I don't think so, but that's me. I know that cultures are different. Some things that happen currently in the US are wild to me. But I am sure that for many Americans it would be wild that those things are wild to me.

 

[DSQ]

I wrote earlier that there was a strong movement not to go to Korea. The government decided that the team would go despite that sentiment. It will be about the degree of humiliation Russia will have to incur. They can swallow paying all WADA's costs, although it is not logical. Russia did not order this investigation and did not control the expenditures. If WADA hired private jets, payed $1000 an hour to "experts", included into the bill restaurants and 5 star hotels, why should Russia pay for that? OK, costs is not the main thing.

The main thing is what athletes will be allowed to compete. If we have Rio when the only track-n-field athlete who was allowed to compete was Klishina who trained in the USA and decided after that to remain there then the only skater who will be allowed to go to the worlds will be Medvedeva. That would be a very sad joke. And if this happens in figure skating and other sports, yes boycot may follow. But I would understand it. I shall boycot figure skating if 3A are not allowed to compete.

If the ISU has any power they will figure something out. Even if they have to pay to get foreign anti doping agents in the country to do all the test. Russia is to much of a dominant force.

 

[KOBOT37]

Meanwhile Mishin(and few others from Russian government) proposed holding alternative events in case CAS doesn't overturn ban.

 

[gmyers]

Why didn’t rusada just send WADA the lab reports they already knew they had? Who ordered the changing of the lab results? So that they would contradict what WADA already had and BELIEVED!! Why would anyone do that. It makes no sense. I know someone who has a document that says abcde and know they believe it is fact! Why do I send one that says adhxyz?!?

 

[Edwin]

Meanwhile Mishin(and few others from Russian government) proposed holding alternative events in case CAS doesn't overturn ban.

What good will that do? Events unrecognised by any other governing body, for domestic consumption only? Russia and its allies, Serbia, some of former CIS (minus Ukraine and the Baltics obviously)

panem et circenses to appease the nation?

No, according the early press releases and statements made, many athletes and bodies see no purpose in competing 'neutered', others think the ban will not affect them to great extent. And still the system won't change, which makes honest and clean Russian athletes uncomfortable by target drug testing and an unabated stream of rumours whenever they win.

A blanket ban would be more effective, now all kinds of expensive legal struggles in CAS will make the situation only more confusing instead of clear. Plus a delay in the final, binding, ruling will jeopardise even participation in the next Olympics.

 

[lariko]

Meanwhile Mishin(and few others from Russian government) proposed holding alternative events in case CAS doesn't overturn ban.

As long as we can watch them internationally w/o geoblocks, I will be happy to watch it. But chances are such an idea will taint whatever athlete that will be willing to compete in Russia’s alternative events. I am worried given how short the careers are in the sport and how many Russians are interesting/fun/exciting and as far as we know are good with nothing more than what momma gave them and what the coach taught them.

Anyway, I hope that if they check out as clean, it’s going be Those Athletes In Grey from we all know where.

 

[Sjs5572]

What good will that do? Events unrecognised by any other governing body, for domestic consumption only?

panem et circenses to appease the nation?

No, according the early press releases and statements made, many athletes and bodies see no purpose in competing 'neutered', others think the ban will not effect them to great extent.

A blanket ban would be more effective, now all kinds of expensive legal struggles in CAS will make the situation only more confusing instead of clear.

I agree. Now there will be all of this public consumption hand ringing followed by the Russian Team competing under the IOC banner which everyone will know means Russia.

 

[KOBOT37]

What good will that do? Events unrecognised by any other governing body, for domestic consumption only?

Mishin Probably misunderstood it and thinks every Russian athlete is banned(at least, his wording about supporting Russian sports during hard times makes that impression).

One official proposed creating new event with help of BRICS but that is out of question for obvious reasons (rest of BRICS wont ever support it).

most likely it will be same old scenario, whoever will be allowed to go by WADA will go, and government will held some local competition for banned athletes like they did 2 years ago. (For FS fans it may be interesting if this competition will include Figure skaters who wont make team for competitive reasons, in 2018 FS wasn't part of it at all)

Pretty much all of the Figure skaters who make it into the team will be at Olympics ( at least in singles, I don't follow pairs).

Like 2 years ago, there will be calls for Boycott (at Russian forums, people who were for Boycott back then are 'We told you so ' mode) but they will be ignored by government.

In long term, this may have devastating effect on Russian sports, popularity of Olympics and sports as a whole is going to be affected,if professional sports turn from national pride to national humiliation Russian government will slowly drop funding it (and without state, Russian sports aren't going to survive in current shape)

 

[DSQ]

Stepanova and Bukin, as well as some fans, know very well why they were banned. The Russian Federation knows that as well. It wasn't exactly their fault, but they know what happened.

What was the reason?

 

[[email protected]]

What was the reason?

Bukin did not know and he wrote an open letter to Bach.

 

[Step Sequence4]

So if the Russian athletes are not competing as "Russia" does that mean that they get more entries to things?

 

[gmyers]

So if the Russian athletes are not competing as "Russia" does that mean that they get more entries to things?

Russia still exists as an entity but is not named! I mean it still exists for organizational purposes

 

[Scott512]

I can't say. Russian government? Sports that became a political weapon and business rather than a vehicle to unite nations as De Coubertin dreamt? Double standards?

This is my opinion. It may be classified as another conspiracy theory. But again, that's what I think. In Beijing and London there were abnormal host country results. There were gossips about the wrong-doing, there were articles but there were no consequences whatsoever. Now Russia finally received its Olympics after 1980 Games which were boycotted by the West. 50 billion dollars was spent. 30 thousand volunteers enlisted. And, of course, it had to be the triumph of the Russian team. Looking at the predecessors from China and UK the officials did not think anything would be revealed if they cheat a little bit. And the last thing they thought was that the person who invented and supplied the "famous cocktail" will become the whisstle blower. But s... happens.

Yes, they cheated and were caught.




This is the key point. We are talking again about the past. I understand that WADA has no issues with the current Russian Olympic committee, they approved how Rusada was rebuilt. It's all about Sochi times when some of the current athletes were fresh from a kindergarten. We have the mismatch between 2 databases related to those times. WADA says that Russian lab made the changes. Russia said that they did not do that and accuse Rodchenkov. Who is right? I don't know and I don't care. I just see very unfair decisions affecting the future for the things that happened long time ago.

We have another round of favorite recent Western pastime of sanctions. Do they make the world better? I don't think so, but that's me. I know that cultures are different. Some things that happen currently in the US are wild to me. But I am sure that for many Americans it would be wild that those things are wild to me.

Thanks Sam. You went into great detail. For sure this has been political for decades. But if they approve of the current Russian Olympic Committee what the hell is the problem? Is scandal still coming out of the Sochi games? Are they still finding cheating and dirty samples? So sad for the many great clean athletes Russia has.

 

[Fluture]

So if the Russian athletes are not competing as "Russia" does that mean that they get more entries to things?

That‘s what I was thinking too. How does one regulate entries if there‘s no “team“ per se? What about quotas? Countries earn them at the Worlds before the Olympics. Generally, if there‘s no “country“, they‘re competing for but rather as individual athletes, it would not make sense to have a limit to the entries either. But that‘s not going to happen and we all know it.

Likely there will be no team event for the Russian skaters as well. It‘s not OAR like last time, is it?

This whole thing is a mess. I‘m aware something had to be done but it’s still... tiresome. Especially as a skating fan where doping isn’t as much of a problem as in other sports.

 

[Noxchild]

Question: does this mean the Russian skaters at Worlds 2020 will be skating under an unaffiliated flag too...? I cannot imagine how placements will work or who (or how many) gets to go if so...