What do Tanith & Ben need to do now?

[dorispulaski]

DenStav's put their foot in it the same way B&A did: they skated a free dance to 'Bach to Africa', which made them easy to dump that year. Once down, it's difficult to come back.

Native American, African and cowboy themed stuff never seems to do well with the judges, whatever the discipline. You lose a place or two when you skate to them.

For D&W to move up much, their next jump will have to be to beat B&A at Nationals. For 2nd place teams to medal is quite rare. It will be interesting to see what happens to K&N next year. I'm hoping they pass DomShabs at Russian Nationals. They need a lot of step sequence work over the summer though.

Im expecting you'll see changes in ice dance rules this year. There is an interesting and odd situation. V&M, D&W and all this year's top Juniors were capable of doing all level four programs. Sometimes the 'top' skaters in seniors were having problems with that. I will not be surprised to see a radical change in rules that will effectively introduce more subjectivity into the sport. Perhaps fewer required elements. Perhaps radical redefinition of elements to make it harder to get level 4 but the same to get level 3. You will be surprised how the ice dance field shuffles with a radical rule change.

And that's one of the things that hit B&A post Olympics--an extra lift was added to the FD and a step sequence was removed, thus emphasizing lifts. B&A's steps were typically good, their lifts mediocre.

AFAIR, US figure skating made no suggestions as to rule changes last year, they just took whatever the rest of the world handed them. The rule business is where the real legal cheating is done. You negotiate rules that favor your top team's strengths as much as you can over skaters near the top. US figure skating typical doesn't seem to do well with this.

As to what B&A should do, they should acquire a coach just for Tanith. Is it just me, or does it seem that Shpilband never seems to improve the quality of the female partner as much as he improves the male. The longer they stay with Shpilband, the bigger the gap. The responsibility for improving the tech & ability of the female partner, then, falls back on the team's own resources.

I could be all wet on that one, but it seems so to me.

 

[Tonichelle]

while I agree Igor seems to be the deciding factor in all this, I would hate to see them go to another coach and then have that coach rework them and make them into something entirely different like most ice dance coaches do

I still can't stand B/K's 180 switch when they moved to Morosov.They lost what made them special IMHO. It was like they almost sold out and became exactly what the judges wanted just so they could have that stupid gold medal.

 

[MarieM]

Changing coach is the only option left if Igor doesn't let them got elsewhere for choreography IMO.
Did they make a statement in that sense anyway ?

 

[sarahjane]

The hillbilly OD hit me as "wrong on many levels." Primarily because it played as a put-down to Appalachia/hillbilly/rural America. (I didn't like their Green Acres for much of the same reason.) On the other hand, the cowboy OD was much better, particularly Ben.

Still, a Texas friend of mine commented: "It would have been really good if you had the feeling that ANYONE on their team had ever been in a Texas honky-tonk on a Saturday night."

 

[Tonichelle]

what was offensive about their dance? I'm confused....

 

[MarieM]

That's funny because I kinda liked their OD this year. It was fun, a bit too open in the construction, but really fun to watch.
It was for me a proof they were at least taking some risks with their skating and I liked that a lot. Like the choice of their FD music BTW.

 

[merrybari]

The first thing anyone seems to think of is change coach or change choreo. Not always the best move.

They did add to their choreo team for Sexy Back. How much did that help? :scratch: Did it help more than it hurt or the other way around? If ice dance judging is as manipulated as many believe and results seem to indicate, they may be paying a price for trying to introduce an unpopular - with the judges anyway, dance form into the mix.

I really don't think any radical changes are necessary. First they need to chalk that CD up to experience and move on. They are making changes in their dance style - becoming softer and more lyrical. Keep that up.

Bottom line, keep it simple and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!!

 

[Kinga]

They finally could go to the Olympic Games. Got the Silver (undeservedly, I think with their overscored marks. Than the shock came at the World. Navka/Kostomarov was not there. But to give a World Title to a couple like Belbin/Agosto ( I'm talking about the situation they have been in 2006.) ?????
No way. So Denkova/Staviyski and Debreuil/Lauzon finally got their real points to be 1st and 2nd.

Their YEAR to get the "pay back" was expected to be 2007. But the Bulgarians and Canadians (who both announced before to retire in 2006.) decided to stay.......Can you remember how underscored was the Bulgarian couple at the European in 2007. to show them: enough is enough???? And than they won the World with the same quality of skating (deservedly so).

2008. is the first year of the "preparation" of the next Olympic Gold Medal.
So everything was prepared(even the panel of the judges) for the Russian Gold.
Even at the European Domn/Shab. won with very visible mistakes. But the Russians could not come!
So, that was Belbin/Agosto 3rd chance, when all the couple ranked above them was not there!!!Than Tanith had this fall in the CD.
That was the time when they started to get the points they deserves (sorry).
Judges was ready to give the Gold them this time to say "thank you" for them.
But now their only way to try to fix the (Dom.Shab)OGM is to give ( thanks God) the Gold to Del/Schönfelder, who (they hopes) will retire aftre this big win. It was without a real risk, because if they stay, next year it can be announced, they was beaten by the Russains in every event they participated together in 2008.

So, even with that the situation is not comfortable for the "politics" because the deserved rising of Virtue/Moir. Judges already started to stop Davis/White, if you see carefully!!! Also there is a big chance to Khohlova/Novitski, because they are not just "heldable" in the future but audience also like them. So, it shouldn'be as scandallous to put them to win than the rather boring (and choreographically tasteless) Domnina/Shabalin in the future.
The only sure thing is: There is no more chance to Belbin/Agosto. It is sad, but that is the truth...
Their only chance to play the same role than in 2005. in 2009 in the pre-Oly year, like 1.Domn/Shabalin 2.Belbin/Agosto, because judges can be sure they will be easily beaten by the Russians a year later.

The ISU politics (having enormous power and influence) wants the Oly like this:
1. Domnina/Shabalin
2.Virtue/Moir ( will be a scandal, I think, so maybe they will choose Khohlova/Novitski to win to be less scandallous at the Arena, as long as audience like this Russian couple much better- rightly so)
3. Kh/ Novitski. ( Or changed 1 and 3 see above why).

After 1994, when Torvill/ Dean was beaten by 2 Russian couples it is clear what is going on there, and the actual skating just bother some of the judges to do the pre-conception.


Even with that, without the strong political influence this World was fantastic and the most enjoyable event . I hope to have the same opened competitions in the future. Dreaming????

I agree that things are not always right in dance judging. But I would not get overdramatic. Already before 2008 worlds there was a lot of bitching in this forum how V/M are going to be held down, etc etc. And it did not happen. They got what they deserved and judging was pretty fair. I would not be surprised if the same happens in Olympics. If V/M continue to get better, I assume that they get gold without any problems. I guess that there are some limits to which you can push your politics and your favourites.
But coming back to B/A. I won't be too original. I think that she lacks true passion and sometimes I doubt that she really feels the music. Her expession seems artificial. I also agree that their programmes are nothing special to remember. They have not found what they could be great at. Choreography was so so. Sadly, on the technical side that did not improve much either. Look at the rapid progress of many pairs - D/Wh, V/M, P/B. But I cannot see that B/A developed in any way - neither technically nor artistically. Or even if they did, it was little, and other pairs did a huge progress.