What does Akiko need to do.....?

[silverlake22]

If we're going into how certain skaters are favored over other others, don't forget that Kim was a victim too in the 2008 WC when she was missed 2nd place over Kostner despite skating with lesser mistakes.

Kostner in 2008 WC FS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9YrrFLsL84

Kim in 2008 WC FS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUpJ7g98eTM

Kim DID pay her dues through years of competing internationally and falling short because of underscoring or whatever reasons. It was only after she became world champion in 2009 that she became favorited so to speak by the media and others.

People have always known Kim was good, it's just that she was so overshadowed by Mao for so many years. When she made her senior GP debut in 2006 with Tando de Roxanne she scored 71 and everyone was amazed because all of a sudden she was wonderful and sophisticated whereas the year before she was just a shy little girl. Yuna beat Mao at 2006 Jr. Worlds and that was the beginning. Yuna faltered in 2007 at worlds in the long because of her back injury, the next year she said she was still not in top form. Asada has not been truly consistent since she was 15. People knew that Yuna was better than Mao, it's just that she couldn't win when she kept falling once in the short and twice in the freeskate. Last year at worlds she didn't fall and so she won. People knew it was coming, and she finally delivered so now she's the new favorite, especially after Mao came in 4th at worlds last year and is now having big difficulties

 

[inside edge]

Ottavio Cinquanta's magic!:disapp:

2008 World

Mao Asada Japan 185.56
Carolina Kostner Italy 184.68
Kim Yu-Na South Korea 183.23

Koster had two hand downs, a two-footed jump, and shaky landing on rest.

 

[janetfan]

Ottavio Cinquanta's magic!:disapp:

2008 World

Mao Asada Japan 185.56
Carolina Kostner Italy 184.68
Kim Yu-Na South Korea 183.23

Koster had two hand downs, a two-footed jump, and shaky landing on rest.

You are forgetting a simple fact. It was "Kostner's turn" to win a World medal.
Like Dog Shows, good skaters don't get to win until they have been shown on the circuit for several years.

I am sure Speedy is still upset Mao did not make another mistake so that Caro could have been given Gold in '08. Afterall, she had been around longer and was even the Euro Champion

 

[silverlake22]

You are forgetting a simple fact. It was "Kostner's turn" to win a World medal.
Like Dog Shows, good skaters don't get to win until they have been shown on the circuit for several years.

I am sure Speedy is still upset Mao did not make another mistake so that Caro could have been given Gold in '08. Afterall, she had been around longer and was even the Euro Champion

European bonus obviously! Laura won Euros with 4 triples: a 3toe, a 3sal, and two 3loops (the easy triples) and won bronze at SC with 3. Kiira won silver at CoC with 3 triples (a 3sal and two 3loops). European ladies are held to a lesser standard of jumps by the judges so if they land 4 easy triples it's like anyone else landing 6 or 7 and they will do well. Don't know why this happens but it just does

 

[MKFSfan]

If we're going into how certain skaters are favored over other others, don't forget that Kim was a victim too in the 2008 WC when she was missed 2nd place over Kostner despite skating with lesser mistakes.

Kostner in 2008 WC FS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9YrrFLsL84

Kim in 2008 WC FS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUpJ7g98eTM

Kim DID pay her dues through years of competing internationally and falling short because of underscoring or whatever reasons. It was only after she became world champion in 2009 that she became favorited so to speak by the media and others.

IIRC, YuNa did win the LP, Mao 2nd and Carolina 3rd. But due to a fall on the 3lz and a few lower levels on non-jump elements, YuNa was 5th in the SP.

 

[inside edge]

I am sure Speedy is still upset Mao did not make another mistake so that Caro could have been given Gold in '08. Afterall, she had been around longer and was even the Euro Champion

Speedy Speedy Speedy
I know what you mean.

 

[Figure88]

IIRC, YuNa did win the LP, Mao 2nd and Carolina 3rd. But due to a fall on the 3lz and a few lower levels on non-jump elements, YuNa was 5th in the SP.

A 3rd place finish in the FS for a program riddled with errors? Maybe 8th or 9th place would have been more for the program. She should have been placed far away from medal contention IMHO. 2008 was a very strange year in judging and scores. If there was any suspicion that judging in ice skating was fixed, this was the year to prove it. This is FS that won Mao Asada world championship that year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiUPdwYJjAc

 

[prettykeys]

Mao's FS was brilliant besides her slip in the beginning...?

 

[Figure88]

Mao's FS was brilliant besides her slip in the beginning...?

Granted she only fell once in her FS (though it was a total faceplant), she was off the ice an awfully long time after that basically doing nothing. I think it's a stretch to think that the FS deserved the 2nd best score no matter how great she was in the rest of the program.

 

[janetfan]

Granted she only fell once in her FS (though it was a total faceplant), she was off the ice an awfully long time after that basically doing nothing. I think it's a stretch to think that the FS deserved the 2nd best score no matter how great she was in the rest of the program.

Mao took a little time to compose herself but she was well within the time limit for continuing her program.

I always thought the way she fell - and got back up - and skated so beautifuly was one of the more memorable things I have seen in skating.

I thought Mao deserved to win the Ladies Championship in '08 because she skated the best.

 

[silverlake22]

Does anyone else think it's kind of beat how the European skaters are held to a lower standard than everyone else? They rarely land more than 3 or 4 triples, and usually they are the easy triples, in a freeskate and they still always seem to do well. I mean that happened to Alissa at nationals last year but never internationally. The Euro ladies are nice to watch but I find them to be quite overscored most of the time.

 

[Figure88]

I always thought the way she fell - and got back up - and skated so beautifuly was one of the more memorable things I have seen in skating.

Yes, it makes for quite an inspirational story. But I don't think this should be a factor in judging the performance. It really isn't fair to other skaters who worked hard to complete their programs from start to finish. In this particular program, I felt Mao was the same old Mao. She focuses too much on technical precision rather than artistry and expression. Whatever is lacking the latter, she makes up for it by choosing beautiful, moving music. Honestly, the music (Chopin piece) was better than her actual skating, which seems to be the case in many of the performances I've seen of her.

 

[herro]

Does anyone else think it's kind of beat how the European skaters are held to a lower standard than everyone else? They rarely land more than 3 or 4 triples, and usually they are the easy triples, in a freeskate and they still always seem to do well. I mean that happened to Alissa at nationals last year but never internationally. The Euro ladies are nice to watch but I find them to be quite overscored most of the time.

Well, scores at nationals are always inflated so you can't really compare any ISU event scores with nationals scores. I don't think I've noticed European skaters specifically being judged to a different standard. Do you think you can clarify with some concrete examples?

 

[silverlake22]

Well, scores at nationals are always inflated so you can't really compare any ISU event scores with nationals scores. I don't think I've noticed European skaters specifically being judged to a different standard. Do you think you can clarify with some concrete examples?

It's not really that they're scores are particularly high, but while judges seem to hold everyone down, the European ladies slide by.

Examples:
Carolina's 2nd at 2008 worlds. Her long was really shaky and she placed ahead of a bunch of ladies with superior performances.
Laura's bronze at 2009 SC. 3 triples, only 1 3lz. Her score was 102 above a bunch of skaters who landed more triples.
Kiira Korpi's silver at 2009 CoC. Her score wasn't that high but she only landed 3 triples and they were easy triples.

I've never seen any of these ladies live, although they don't seem to have exceptional spirals or spins as far as I can tell. Good overall skating skills yet, but besides that not much else.

If anyone has seen any of these ladies live they could maybe explain. I'm sure there's a reason they are getting such high scores but I am not aware of what that is. Maybe they have really high GOEs on the triples they do land?

 

[wonderlen3000]

A lot of peoples forget Yuna made two major mistakes that cost her the gold. She had a fall on her 3Lz in the SP and she popped her 2nd 3Lz in the LP too.

Mao only had a fall on her 3A, and she didn't skate around doing nothing for 1 minute like many ubers claimed. She falled, get up, skate 1/4 of a rink that took only 15 seceonds or so (depending on how you define it) and get onto it. Beside, aside from jumps and spins, how do you get to point A from point B?? You skate and there is no rules that said you have to flap your arms on the way.

In term of Calrolina winning the silver. She did it according to the rules. Granted, her PCS mark should have been much lower, possibily around 58ish, she rotated her jumps and got credited for what she did.

 

[Figure88]

A lot of peoples forget Yuna made two major mistakes that cost her the gold. She had a fall on her 3Lz in the SP and she popped her 2nd 3Lz in the LP too.

Mao only had a fall on her 3A, and she didn't skate around doing nothing for 1 minute like many ubers claimed. She falled, get up, skate 1/4 of a rink that took only 15 seceonds or so (depending on how you define it) and get onto it. Beside, aside from jumps and spins, how do you get to point A from point B?? You skate and there is no rules that said you have to flap your arms on the way.

In term of Calrolina winning the silver. She did it according to the rules. Granted, her PCS mark should have been much lower, possibily around 58ish, she rotated her jumps and got credited for what she did.

So according to you, the results of 2008 World Championships were nothing out of the ordinary and the placements were completely justified, including Kostner medalling despite a performance riddled with mistakes? Mao was also "performing" after the fall when she skating around the rink for the lag before 2nd jumps? Please. I don't think Kim earned the gold for that performance, but I don't think Mao deserved the gold either with that drastic fall. Any one of them could have taken the gold.

I would also refrain from resorting to personal attacks by calling posters ubers, especially from an uber yourself. The results of the 2008 Championships were just weird and clearly disputable. Period.

 

[MKFSfan]

Those that question the results of 2008 Worlds, how would you have placed them? I think the SP was fair-Carolina had a great performance, beautiful 3f/3t, and was just barely ahead of Mao, who got an edge call on her Lutz and low levels on non-jump elements. Yukari was in 3rd barely 3 points behind, despite no 3/3. Yu-Na fell on the Lutz and got only a Level 1 for her spiral, so she was in 5th, out of 1st by barely 5 points.

Then in the LP-Yu-Na deserved to win this section with 5 clean triples, 3 2axles and one popped lutz, plus 4 Level 4 elements and 2 Level 3. Mao also was credited with 5 clean triples-including a 3ax/2t-and 2 2axles. She received an UR on her 3f/3lp combo, and popped/fell on her 1st 3ax attempt. She again was dinged with a Level 1 spiral, but got 3 Level 3 and 1 Level 4.

Carolina was credited with 7 triples completed, but I thought only 3 were well done-especially her 3fl/3t/2lp combo, and her 3lp. She had the hand down on the Lutz, turned out of the Flip, hand down on the 3toe of her 2a/3t, very sloppy landings on the 3s/2t, and her last 2ax was OK. I thought her spins and FW were fine, but her spiral sequence was so sloppy-she still got a +1GOE!!!

Then Yukari had such a beautiful performance. She did get two UR calls-axle and flip, but the rest was really well done.

I think I would've had the LP Yu-Na, Mao, Yukari, Joannie and then Carolina.

 

[Figure88]

Those that question the results of 2008 Worlds, how would you have placed them? I think the SP was fair-Carolina had a great performance, beautiful 3f/3t, and was just barely ahead of Mao, who got an edge call on her Lutz and low levels on non-jump elements. Yukari was in 3rd barely 3 points behind, despite no 3/3. Yu-Na fell on the Lutz and got only a Level 1 for her spiral, so she was in 5th, out of 1st by barely 5 points.

First of all, how could Kim score a level 1 for the spiral sequence along with a low level 2 for her step sequence? Other than the fall on the lutz her SP looked clean to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzE7bh8Wa-Q

Very wierd scoring if you ask me. As far as ranking, I believe it could have been a toss up as to who should have won the gold with no clear winner. But I might change my opinion after analyzing each performance more closely.

 

[MKFSfan]

I think she didn't hold the positions out long enough in the spiral sequence, no idea about the SS. If she hadn't fallen and had gotten a level 4 on her spiral, she would've gotten at least another 9 points, so she would've been in 1st.

 

[silverlake22]

Those that question the results of 2008 Worlds, how would you have placed them?

Actually, the placement makes sense, it's just that no one really skated up to their potential at that competition; Yuna, Mao, Carolina, Joannie can all be much better than they were