What is the consensus on Virtue/Moir now?

[lyndichee]

I saw the FD live : it is very beautiful. they skate so much on the music (which now I know is much more noticeable live than on streaming) that the whole crowd (yes, I admit sympathetic and Canadian but mind you half of it came from Japan) were glued to every note, every movement. I felt that in the last 30-45 seconds they were out of breath but that's normal at this point of the season. Brief, I was impressed. The only team at ACI that conveyed deep emotion to the audience.

That is exciting. I see a lot of people interpret things very differently in person. I loved their SD but was kind of underwhelmed with the LP. I will be at Skate Canada next week and can't wait to see them live.

Interesting fact: I have also seen Sam Smith singing Latch live so I am super excited for this FD

 

[LauraV]

It's premature to make any judgments at this point. Ice Dance programs develop over the course of a season, moreso than in the other disciplines, so personally speaking, I am not ready to make any final judgments about any of the dance programs I've seen to date.

I will say that so far, I really enjoyed the first outing of V/M's SD. I think they are far from finished refining their FD (like everyone else) and I think I am going to enjoy it more as it develops through the course of the season. And whatever the merits of the programs per se, V/M are certainly in good early form and skating well.

I have no idea at this point where they'll finish the season vis P/C or the Shibs or anyone else, but I am happy to see them back and I just enjoy seeing them perform. I say this as some one who also really enjoys P/C and the Shibs, and B/S and G/P and many other teams as well. Which makes me sound boring and wishy washy, I concede, but it's true nevertheless.

 

[BlackPack]

They are doing extremely well. Their move to leave Marina was definitely the right one. V&M can be on the podium.

I think they are doing better than they were in 2014 and it will be a close race between P&C and V&M. P&C seem to have more speed, ice coverage, and deeper edges, but V&M have the polish, more difficult choreography, lifts, spins, entrances into elements. I have definitely missed seeing Tessa's natural dance moves. As far as programs go, P&C still seem rather junior-ish in their posture and line as well as themes. There were parts in P&C's FD that seemed COP-esque; lost in its labyrinth of complex moves that had little to do with the music. V&M is definitely back!

 

[jenaj]

There will never be a consensus view on them.

 

[Debs122]

I think they are far from finished refining their FD (like everyone else) and I think I am going to enjoy it more as it develops through the course of the season.

VM had a teleconference today where they said, "FD has grown "quite a bit" post-ACI w/ D. Wilson; will cont. work w/ him every month or two," based on twofortheice Twitter account.

 

[LauraV]

VM had a teleconference today where they said, "FD has grown "quite a bit" post-ACI w/ D. Wilson; will cont. work w/ him every month or two," based on twofortheice Twitter account.

Thanks for that info Debs122! It looks like the holder of that account is planning to draft a transcript of the teleconference. I am planning to check that out when it's available.

 

[lauravvv]

P&C seem to have more speed, ice coverage, and deeper edges

I don't think that P/C have deeper edges and better ice coverage. Maybe your idea of what ice coverage is is different from mine? To my understanding ice coverage is the overall ice surface skaters cover during the program, during a step sequence etc.

As far as programs go, P&C still seem rather junior-ish in their posture and line as well as themes. There were parts in P&C's FD that seemed COP-esque; lost in its labyrinth of complex moves that had little to do with the music.

I am first and foremost a Virtue/Moir fan, but this is and :shocked:.

 

[Ares]

A consensus before the GP even starts? :scratch3:

This. I did not bother to watch their new programs, I don't want to be disappointed by some half-product in some lesser settling. I am looking forward to see them in GP competitions and to give my opinion.

 

[BlackPack]

I don't think that P/C have deeper edges and better ice coverage. Maybe your idea of what ice coverage is is different from mine? To my understanding ice coverage is the overall ice surface skaters cover during the program, during a step sequence etc.

I am first and foremost a Virtue/Moir fan, but this is and :shocked:.

P&C seem to cover more ice with more speed, "seem" being the operative word.

I can argue for my views but I won't bother since your dismissive emoticons suggest my views aren't meant to be taken seriously.

I am not the biggest V&M fan. P&C is my preferred couple. Every season someone accuses me of being such and such a fan and therefore I am such and such a hater, when it is not the case.

 

[TangoTraumatica]

I'm a die-hard V/M fan but even I'm holding my tongue until I see better quality videos of P/C's program. I think it'll be hard to really make predictions about who will end up on top until we see how they perform throughout the GP.

 

[Ares]

As far as that goes, Scott Moir's greatest love is----Scott Moir!

How true is that Scott is a narcissist? It's not the first name I see someone's making remarks of this ilk. Is it because of that stupid reality show / documentary with him?

 

[TGee]

How true is that Scott is a narcissist? It's not the first name I see someone's making remarks of this ilk. Is it because of that stupid reality show / documentary with him?

I have winced at many of the income earning choices skaters have made. And I agree that we shouldn't use that to read too much into their personalities. Good point!

For example, I don't think that Shane Firus has exhibitionist inclinations just because he's been picked up by Calvin Klein to do print ads for their jeans.

Perhaps if skaters in North America were better funded, or if the ISU enabled more events with prizes that were in line with the actual cost of training, then skaters wouldn't need to look for creative ways to earn income within the ISU rules. This is especially the case for dance and pairs skaters who have to split their prize money.

 

[skateluvr]

I have winced at many of the income earning choices skaters have made. And I agree that we shouldn't use that to read too much into their personalities. Good point!

For example, I don't think that Shane Firus has exhibitionist inclinations just because he's been picked up by Calvin Klein to do print ads for their jeans.

Perhaps if skaters in North America were better funded, or if the ISU enabled more events with prizes that were in line with the actual cost of training, then skaters wouldn't need to look for creative ways to earn income within the ISU rules. This is especially the case for dance and pairs skaters who have to split their prize money.

I find it sad that we on this forum think sports should be funded when we are bankrupt and homeless people are everywhere and many are women and children. No sport should matter much when we are trillions in debt. This forum is very elitist. And youthful. Rather myopic as well.

As for things we say I would get slammed if I diagnosed Scott Moir with a mental illness and that is what narcissism is. I wish the rules here were fair. That everyone can give an opinion unless it is something trump might say. We must be very pc here especially about Gay rights issues but we can say a skater has a very unflattering dx? I agree he is conceited but people with degrees here know that Narcissism is a personality disorder. One of eight. While Trump has been dxed by many many mental health professionals over the years and that is obvious, Scott Moir may be confident. And come off as conceited but we simply don't know him enough to say that.

I am not his personal fan at all but I do think he is a great ice dancer. He is a man who is recognized as one of the best ever at his art. Medals go directly to a person's brain. Especially males. Okay that was sexist but TESSA DOES SEEM A BIT MORE HUMBLE, no? Sorry unintended caps.

 

[TGee]

I find it sad that we on this forum think sports should be funded when we are bankrupt and homeless people are everywhere and many are women and children. No sport should matter much when we are trillions in debt. This forum is very elitist. And youthful. Rather myopic as well.

As for things we say I would get slammed if I diagnosed Scott Moir with a mental illness and that is what narcissism is. I wish the rules here were fair. That everyone can give an opinion unless it is something trump might say. We must be very pc here especially about Gay rights issues but we can say a skater has a very unflattering dx? I agree he is conceited but people with degrees here know that Narcissism is a personality disorder. One of eight. While Trump has been dxed by many many mental health professionals over the years and that is obvious, Scott Moir may be confident. And come off as conceited but we simply don't know him enough to say that.

I am not his personal fan at all but I do think he is a great ice dancer. He is a man who is recognized as one of the best ever at his art. Medals go directly to a person's brain. Especially males. Okay that was sexist but TESSA DOES SEEM A BIT MORE HUMBLE, no? Sorry unintended caps.

Thanks Skateluvr for underscoring that narcissim is a mental disorder, and that arm chair diagnoses from a distance are inappropriate. Competely agree.

And I have real discomfort with speculation about who is the more attention seeking or self absorbed etc. We really can't tell, and I'm sincerely not able to guess between Tessa and Scott.

What we do know is that figure skating is a performance sport. Skaters are out there performing, and if they don't love the attention, it is very difficult to reach the elite levels. It's part of the package....

On funding, agree that there are many challenging policy choices that societies need to make. Homelessness is among them.

Many doubt that elite sport contributes to overall physical activity, but there are countries, jurisdictions and programs that build in facilities development hand in hand with support for sports at all levels.

But skating in North America is a big revenue generator for media.....but unlike professional sport, the money isn't flowing back to the athletes. Speed skaters in the Netherlands have taken the ISU to the EU Commission because the ISU is blocking them from participating in competitions that have prizes greater than they can win in a full year of sanctioned competitions. The organizers of the non-ISU events wouldn't pay that much if it weren't going to be profitable, so the ISU monopoly seems to be hurting skaters.

You are correct that cost makes a sport that is out of reach for many. But I think most of us on GS know this. I've seen a good deal of discussion about it. And an awareness that it impacts the ability of countries to be competitive.

 

[Mango]

If you think Scott Moir's greatest love is himself then you clearly don't know Scott Moir.

His first love is hockey. His greatest unfulfilled desire is to win the Stanley Cup. He is a huge fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Him and Tessa are best friends with Mike Babcock, the Leafs' head coach who previously coached the Detroit Red Wings. They hang out together regularly. Tessa even once said if she could spend an hour on ice with anyone it would be Mike Babcock and Scott Moir. I do believe Scott would have (tried to) become a hockey player were it not for the fact that his entire family is firmly entrenched in figure skating and he found Tessa.

 

[4everchan]

If you think Scott Moir's greatest love is himself then you clearly don't know Scott Moir.

His first love is hockey. His greatest unfulfilled desire is to win the Stanley Cup. He is a huge fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Him and Tessa are best friends with Mike Babcock, the Leafs' head coach who previously coached the Detroit Red Wings. They hang out together regularly. Tessa even once said if she could spend an hour on ice with anyone it would be Mike Babcock and Scott Moir. I do believe Scott would have (tried to) become a hockey player were it not for the fact that his entire family is firmly entrenched in figure skating and he found Tessa.

seeing him and Tessa interact with the kids at ACI, after their victory ceremony, they were both so nice and caring with the youngsters that you could feel their generosity and empathy.... very far from the narcissistic description on top of the page.

 

[apple123]

How many times has Scott made fun of himself to amuse people? He's the definition of down-to-earth and not-taking-himself-seriously. How can that be called narcissist is beyond me. Do people even know that word mean?

 

[Barb]

I find it sad that we on this forum think sports should be funded when we are bankrupt and homeless people are everywhere and many are women and children. No sport should matter much when we are trillions in debt. This forum is very elitist. And youthful. Rather myopic as well.

As for things we say I would get slammed if I diagnosed Scott Moir with a mental illness and that is what narcissism is. I wish the rules here were fair. That everyone can give an opinion unless it is something trump might say. We must be very pc here especially about Gay rights issues but we can say a skater has a very unflattering dx? I agree he is conceited but people with degrees here know that Narcissism is a personality disorder. One of eight. While Trump has been dxed by many many mental health professionals over the years and that is obvious, Scott Moir may be confident. And come off as conceited but we simply don't know him enough to say that.

I am not his personal fan at all but I do think he is a great ice dancer. He is a man who is recognized as one of the best ever at his art. Medals go directly to a person's brain. Especially males. Okay that was sexist but TESSA DOES SEEM A BIT MORE HUMBLE, no? Sorry unintended caps.

well, figure skating is very costly but in general if the government promotes and fund some sports, there are more healthy people and they will get save money peventing diseases.

 

[sk8m8]

moving back to the subject at hand...

Good points about fairness, especially that of prejudiced judgements against skaters based on personality. I will say that I like to keep it light on here and my only serious note is that there will always be poor people and how we address that as a society or country speaks to that...however should we shut down everything that is beautiful and enriching until everyone is fed? Additionally, are there plenty of things that feed souls too?

As to V &M and the direct question of the consensus of the board over them about their latest program... to me it was two great programs, now they should figure out which one they want to pursue. The movement/choreography of both sections is progressive and will keep them in the hunt, however I just don't think the two piece of music (both lovely and elegant in their own rights) really mesh together well and it really seems to make a disjointed program. It's either ethereal and abstract or it's personal and romantic, but joining those both together when they are at the opposite ends of those spectrums just doesn't make a 'seamless work of art' to my mind.

 

[Ladskater]

No, I have not seen Virtue and Moir's new programs yet. I will next weekend on the CBC. I expect nothing but the best from Virtue and Moir. That is my opinion....