What rule changes would you like to see next season?

[Magill]

Personnally, on that topic, only the opinion of skaters impacted by the rule matterw to me. Kostornaia knew she was safe, being already 18yo when the decision was made. And it's advantageous for her if she decide to come back. I think she probably would have had a different opinion if she was 14yo.

Actually, 14 y.o. are just as affected by the new rule as 18 y.o. so their opinions are just as far from being objective as others. It is not the skaters who should decide on this matter as none of them is really objective. Of course, the young ones would like to be allowed to compete, it proves nothing.
That is why I said it was a fun fact.
Yet Alyona's opinion is very unpopular in Russia so some appreciation to her for voicing that.

 

[skatesofgold]

Personnally, on that topic, only the opinion of skaters impacted by the rule matterw to me. Kostornaia knew she was safe, being already 18yo when the decision was made. And it's advantageous for her if she decide to come back. I think she probably would have had a different opinion if she was 14yo.

I saw somewhere that Anna Shcherbakova has the opposite viewpoint. She thinks the best should compete regardless of age. Let's get real. The only reason why figure skating is changing their age limit is the doping scandal. There are plenty of sports that are still allowing under-17s compete as seniors: gymnastics, diving, swimming, skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.

 

[yume]

I saw somewhere that Anna Shcherbakova has the opposite viewpoint. She thinks the best should compete regardless of age. Let's get real. The only reason why figure skating is changing their age limit is the doping scandal. There are plenty of sports that are still allowing under-17s compete as seniors: gymnastics, diving, swimming, skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.

I don't know. Some were already asking for an age limit raise before the scandal. Because of the "unfair advantage of tiny body vs mature body" and the will to see only women on ice and not the few kids that are competing each season. ISU was already discussing it. But yes, maybe without the scandal, there wouldn't have been so many votes for the raise. They went overboard with 17. 16 was a good age.

 

[wakuwaku]

Some were already asking for an age limit raise before the scandal. Because of the "unfair advantage of tiny body vs mature body"

*Mai Mihara, Yuma Kagiyama left the chat*

The real problem is the Russian skaters missing. They have enough adult skaters who can put out great performances with 3-3s, maybe even triple axels or a quad.

Forget about Russians. We are not going to see them in international competitions for 5-10 years anyway. It would be more easy to pretend they never existed to begin with. It's what ISU wants (contrary to other federations with balls - like tennis for example) and that one exact rule which I think is useless asking to change.

 

[yelyoh]

Since this thread is about rule changes, I propose doing away with the one-point automatic deduction for a fall. The skater is penalized in the element GOE and PCS perf score already (or, if not, THAT is where the penatly could take place). In addition, a skater who falls but avoids having their butt touch the ice is not given a deduction for...falling but not having their butt touch the ice. In addition, sometimes a skater just slips not even on a element and yet they are given the one-point deduction. That should affect their skating skills assessment; that's all. I think it's overly/doubly punative.

 

[ChiGal]

Since this thread is about rule changes, I propose doing away with the one-point automatic deduction for a fall. The skater is penalized in the element GOE and PCS perf score already (or, if not, THAT is where the penatly could take place). In addition, a skater who falls but avoids having their butt touch the ice is not given a deduction for...falling but not having their butt touch the ice. In addition, sometimes a skater just slips not even on a element and yet they are given the one-point deduction. That should affect their skating skills assessment; that's all. I think it's overly/doubly punative.

I agree with you to a point...but someone can correct me if I am wrong here. I thought they added the one-point fall deduction to avoid the following scenario, that a skater could earn more points by trying a quad (for example) and falling, than trying a triple and landing it. If a skater attempting a jump, falls and lands on the ice, then one point deduction. If they stumble out of said jump instead, and not hit the ice with their bottoms, then 1/2 point deduction. Same if they stumble on an element such as step sequence or spins, 1/2 point deduction. IF you do not have clear cut deductions, then it leaves room for GOE and PCS shenanigans with the judges, as what happened with the old 6.0 scoring system.

 

[skatesofgold]

I wish singles had a choreographic spin. I was watching Tara Lipinski's Olympic free program and took note of her arms in that first layback spin she did.

 

[NanaPat]

One reason for the one-point deduction for falls was that ice dance programs with falls were winning gold medals. It can be argued that if the judges were doing their jobs, that wouldn't have been happening and that the one-point deduction is just window dressing to deflect criticism of the judging system.

I think the mandatory -5 GOE for jumps with a fall has been more effective in discouraging skaters from trying jumps they have no hope in hell of landing. The -1 wasn't enough penalty to discourage quads with a "planned fall". The -5 GOE is.

 

[lzxnl]

Suggested rule changes:
1. Something to take the step/choreo sequences more seriously. Right now, getting a level 3 vs a level 4 is a base value of 0.6. That is completely irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things, if you simply nail your jumps. Similarly for the choreo sequence. As long as you don't fall, you're guaranteed a +1 GOE or something, and there's not much leeway for GOEs on it.
2. Spins. A lot of spins seem to just 'be there'. The duration of a spin means that it doesn't always fit with the music or make sense in the context of the program (there are exceptions, of course). They can seem like an afterthought, almost as if 'I have to do this because points'. They're also really not worth that much, as a change foot combination spin at level 4 is worth just more than a 2A, which, for the men and women, is not more than the most valuable jump in any jumping pass. And then the spin GOEs don't always make sense either; some really slow and travelling spins have received much higher GOE than other, much nicer spins.
3. 'Actually' marking everyone according to the current rulebook, e.g. underrotations or wrong edges on jumps, and applying them equally to everyone. This has probably been said for days, but everyone knows that the judging isn't always consistent.

 

[Magill]

Ban the corridor PCS scoring. It is ridiculous and should be illegal. It makes this sport's scoring an outright joke.
Also make judges paid and hired employees accountable to the terms and conditions of their contract instead of unaccountable volunteers they have been for ages.
Introduce AI wherever possible to get rid of infamous scoring based on federations, backstage politicking, starting groups and who knows what. Without it no reform of scoring system will ever work properly, no matter how elaborate.
Introduce a system equivalent to VAR, EagleEye etc. to decide on precise execution of elements and its scoring (levels, GOE etc.), with image shared by judges, audience in the venue and tv/online viewers in the real time, like they have in tennis.

 

[lilimum]

Ban the corridor PCS scoring. It is ridiculous and should be illegal. It makes this sport's scoring an outright joke.
Also make judges paid and hired employees accountable to the terms and conditions of their contract instead of unaccountable volunteers they have been for ages.
Introduce AI wherever possible to get rid of infamous scoring based on federations, backstage politicking, starting groups and who knows what. Without it no reform of scoring system will ever work properly, no matter how elaborate.
Introduce a system equivalent to VAR, EagleEye etc. to decide on precise execution of elements and its scoring (levels, GOE etc.), with image shared by judges, audience in the venue and tv/online viewers in the real time, like they have in tennis.

The technical controller and technical specialists are already a kind of VAR. But I like the idea of indtroducing more technical equipment , especially whe it comes to the cheated take-off - no judges takes into account the bad technique that has been established in the last yeears. But this would make a competition very expensive because a huge number of highs speed cameras would be needed and I guess nobody is willing to spend a huge amount of money to develop the necessary software.

 

[surimi]

I would like to see the following:

- no mandatory SP jump for juniors except for the axel. It's too limiting, and if they make a mistake on the combo, they lose the combo because they have no other jump to attach the combo to. That's crazy.

- Doing away with the rule that says that only skaters from the top 12 at WC are guaranteed a GP spot (if I read correctly). What is the ISU smoking? So GP medals and SB mean nothing, and such a skater *can* be invited to next season's GP, but no guarantee because they are in a deep field, got injured later in the season, or messed up their Nationals, and couldn't go to WC? What is this craziness? For shame, ISU. GP medalists and the highest SB holders should be entitled to next season's GP, not wait for what spots are left!

- The spin evaluation is pitiful. I would really like to see the same scale that's used for jumps, +3 or even +4 for outstanding, fast, well-centered and flexibility-showing spins. Keep those +0.5's for slow inflexible spins, and don't insult good spinners by throwing a few tenths of a point more at them. Maybe we'd see more focus on spins and less focus on super hard jumps that way, from some at least.

 

[Amei]

I agree with you to a point...but someone can correct me if I am wrong here. I thought they added the one-point fall deduction to avoid the following scenario, that a skater could earn more points by trying a quad (for example) and falling, than trying a triple and landing it. If a skater attempting a jump, falls and lands on the ice, then one point deduction. If they stumble out of said jump instead, and not hit the ice with their bottoms, then 1/2 point deduction. Same if they stumble on an element such as step sequence or spins, 1/2 point deduction. IF you do not have clear cut deductions, then it leaves room for GOE and PCS shenanigans with the judges, as what happened with the old 6.0 scoring system.

I believe the 1 point deduction was in effort to reduce skaters going for a jump knowing they will fail but it being better than going for a clean jump with fewer revolutions.

I want to see the PCS numbers changed though, for 1 serious error (fall or invalid element) i think the max PCS eligible should be a 9, 2 serious serious errors 8.5 or 8 and so on, to me 9-10 PCS marks should be reserved for clean skates or skates where the most serious errors are under-rotations or edge calls

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

Not a direct rule change per se, more like guidance from the ISU, but I saw a poster in the competition threads making a point about the Challenger Series that I wholeheartedly agreed with: if a federation agrees to host a CS event, the bare minimum they should provide is a working results page which updates after each skater/team receives their score. I'd go as far as to say that CS hosts should also have to provide a livestream or upload individual videos of each skater after each segment. I think it is important that coverage of all CS events is equal; at the moment, we have some events with good quality streams and live results, some with an attempt at a stream and somewhat live results and some with no stream and no results! This can be especially frustrating for those who want to watch up-and-coming skaters/teams develop. For example, we were not able to see the international debut of promising new pairs team Pereira/Michaud at Golden Spin

I appreciate that getting feds to host events is a challenge, but the ISU should provide adequate funds to ensure feds are able to provide streams and results for fans. Otherwise, if we constantly make accessing skating content harder, there are going to be fewer and fewer new fans getting invested in the sport.

 

[Amei]

Not a direct rule change per se, more like guidance from the ISU, but I saw a poster in the competition threads making a point about the Challenger Series that I wholeheartedly agreed with: if a federation agrees to host a CS event, the bare minimum they should provide is a working results page which updates after each skater/team receives their score. I'd go as far as to say that CS hosts should also have to provide a livestream or upload individual videos of each skater after each segment. I think it is important that coverage of all CS events is equal; at the moment, we have some events with good quality streams and live results, some with an attempt at a stream and somewhat live results and some with no stream and no results! This can be especially frustrating for those who want to watch up-and-coming skaters/teams develop. For example, we were not able to see the international debut of promising new pairs team Pereira/Michaud at Golden Spin

I appreciate that getting feds to host events is a challenge, but the ISU should provide adequate funds to ensure feds are able to provide streams and results for fans. Otherwise, if we constantly make accessing skating content harder, there are going to be fewer and fewer new fans getting invested in the sport.

Your suggestion makes some sense however the ISU has less money coming in from the IOC this cycle and I'd rather a no stream available event vs. no event at all

 

[NanaPat]

I believe the 1 point deduction was in effort to reduce skaters going for a jump knowing they will fail but it being better than going for a clean jump with fewer revolutions.

Maybe you're right, but it wasn't enough. The automatic -5 GOE came later, and was more effective in doing this.

The -1 does address random falls, not on an element.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

- Doing away with the rule that says that only skaters from the top 12 at WC are guaranteed a GP spot (if I read correctly). What is the ISU smoking? So GP medals and SB mean nothing, and such a skater *can* be invited to next season's GP, but no guarantee because they are in a deep field, got injured later in the season, or messed up their Nationals, and couldn't go to WC? What is this craziness? For shame, ISU. GP medalists and the highest SB holders should be entitled to next season's GP, not wait for what spots are left!

"Skaters/Couples with an ISU World Standing placement of 1 – 24 and Skaters/Couples with seasons best scores for 2021/22 in the top 24, who do not hold an ISU World Standing placement of 1 – 24 will be guaranteed one event if they do not otherwise meet the criteria listed in paragraphs 2.1 or 2.2 above and the minimum Grand Prix score." - Grand Prix of Figure Skating 2022/23 announcement

 

[surimi]

"Skaters/Couples with an ISU World Standing placement of 1 – 24 and Skaters/Couples with seasons best scores for 2021/22 in the top 24, who do not hold an ISU World Standing placement of 1 – 24 will be guaranteed one event if they do not otherwise meet the criteria listed in paragraphs 2.1 or 2.2 above and the minimum Grand Prix score." - Grand Prix of Figure Skating 2022/23 announcement

My bad. I just saw this part quoted somewhere - "The Skaters are selected and invited to the six Grand Prix of Figure Skating events based on the results of the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2022. Skaters/Couples who have placed 1 to 6 in each of the four categories are seeded and assigned to two events. Skaters/ Couples who have placed 7-12 at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships are selected for two ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events, and Skaters with a top 24 Seasonal Best Scores (from the 2021/22 season) as well as those placed in the top 24 of the ISU World Standings can also be invited. If available, medalists from the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships can also be selected." - and as no other parts were mentioned and I didn't check the original version on ISU's website, I assumed it was all. My mistake. Good to know.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

My bad. I just saw this part quoted somewhere - "The Skaters are selected and invited to the six Grand Prix of Figure Skating events based on the results of the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2022. Skaters/Couples who have placed 1 to 6 in each of the four categories are seeded and assigned to two events. Skaters/ Couples who have placed 7-12 at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships are selected for two ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events, and Skaters with a top 24 Seasonal Best Scores (from the 2021/22 season) as well as those placed in the top 24 of the ISU World Standings can also be invited. If available, medalists from the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships can also be selected." - and as no other parts were mentioned and I didn't check the original version on ISU's website, I assumed it was all. My mistake. Good to know.

No worries, I just remembered this section because I was trying to predict who would get GP stages when the ISU was taking their sweet time with announcing the entries

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Also make judges paid and hired employees accountable to the terms and conditions of their contract instead of unaccountable volunteers they have been for ages.

I like this idea, not just for accountability and professionalism but also to compensate them for time and effort spent training, which can be quite extensive going up the levels. IIRC they do get some compensation for things like travelling to competition, but not a lot.

It might also incentivise more top skaters to become judges. Not all of the judges at international/ISU competitions have competed at this level as skaters. Correct me if I'm wrong, I heard one can't be both a judge and coach due to conflict of interest (but coaches are allowed to be technical specialists, possibly because those roles depend less on subjective opinion). Coaching is an actual job with remuneration (however modest), and top skaters face pressure to recoup the costs of their training post-retirement, so I am guessing that those who want to remain closely involved with the sport would pick coaching (or performing) over judging.

I also think medical staff covering competitions should get properly paid, since they are also highly trained professionals. I'm not sure if it varies by country but at Skate Canada they were volunteers (highly qualified but doing their duties purely out of love for the sport, bless them).