What's up with Mira?

[R.D.]

Was your last post #78?

If you are on page 4 you must have your settings on "twenty per page." The "forum default" is 15 per page. You can change it by User CP -> Edit Options if you want to.

Ah, I see. Actually I like it at 20. Fewer pages to deal with.

and this is now the start of page 5 (for me). All this for some obscure Canadian skater who so many think is just so bad

 

[GoldMedalist]

The obsession with this girl really is crazy. People treat her like some clueless bimbo with no talent. Doesn't make sense to me in the least.

Mira Leung should have won Canadian Nationals this year. She skated two solid, clean programs. THAT'S that most important talking point with regards to this skater, IMO. And yet, nobody discusses it.

And while her LP at Worlds was unfortunate, I DO think she was unfairly marked. She underrotated a 3Sal but made no other mistakes on that single jump and, because of the wonderful judging system, got less points for it than if she had done a 2Sal and actually put a hand down. Her first two spins plus her footwork sequence should have been marked a Level higher and I also don't believe her 3Toe should have been downgraded.

 

[netnuts]

The obsession with this girl really is crazy. People treat her like some clueless bimbo with no talent. Doesn't make sense to me in the least.

.

Wow, your comments will likely provke another five-page point-to-point rebuttal.

 

[R.D.]

haha. I think I'll pull my automatic subscription from this thread (I have it set to automatically subscribe to threads I respond in). Thus, this will likely be my last post in this thread. Argue away!

 

[mskater93]

A coach can drop a student (the equivalent to "firing") if they don't work well together.

 

[oleada]

I'll take a stab at that, netnuts.

I haven't seen anyone call Mira a "clueless bimbo with no talent". On the contrary, I've seen many people remark that they think she is quite talented. Her consistency is to be admired. What bugs people about Mira is that she seems deluded about what her strenghts and weakness are. After competitions, Mira and her mother constantly complain that the judges are robbing them. Rather than looking at the results of a competition and seeing what can be improved, they seem convinced that there's nothing wrong with Mira and they've been hard done by the judges. She's also criticized her coach to the press, which imo, is really uncalled for:

"Okay, so my circular step sequence was a Level 2 -- I was trying for a Level 4, but I was pretty sure I would get a Level 2 if I didn't change footwork before I got here," Leung said. "It didn't get changed because ... well, ask Joanne [McLeod, her coach], she thinks it doesn't need to be changed."

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/features/2010/story.html?id=013471a0-fd6e-4b14-a4cc-5b8e24790093

Compare her attitude to Joannie's, for example, in this article. Joannie seems to accept her weakness and wants to work harder on what she needs too. Mira, on the other hand, seems to be blaming others for her own flaws.

Mira's skating skills are really bad, so is her posture, stroking, edging. Her jumps are barely eeked out and have almost no flow out of them. She can land jumps, but a lot of the time, they're underrotated and receive no positive GOEs. These are things she could improve on if she worked on them, but she doesn't seem to be aware that she needs to. There's more to skating than just landing jumps, and Mira's in-betweens aren't very good. As worlds showed, if her jumps fail, she has nothing to fall back on, even without the two falls, she would've still come in last in the FS. That's why she finished second to Joannie at Nationals - her basics are really bad. As long as she's brainwashed and under the total control of her mother, she's never going to improve. What she needs to do to improve is get away from her mom, get a tough coach and rework her skating. She's never going to get better otherwise.

Why Mira was criticized for showing up in torn tights, dirty boots and peeking undies at SC, is because she's not only representing herself, she's representing Skate Canada. Looking like that at a major international event is completely unacceptable. You don't need to have major $$$ to look presentable and I fail to see how Mira, who has been in the senior scene for a long time, is blind enough to not see the standard she's expected to uphold at such an event.

 

[GoldMedalist]

There's more to skating than just landing jumps, and Mira's in-betweens aren't very good.

Her spins are better than Joannie's, IMO.

 

[passion]

There's more to skating than just landing jumps, and Mira's in-betweens aren't very good. As worlds showed, if her jumps fail, she has nothing to fall back on, even without the two falls, she would've still come in last in the FS. That's why she finished second to Joannie at Nationals - her basics are really bad.

I, too, believe this is why Mira came second at nationals to Joannie. Joannie's basic presentation and skating skills are stronger than Mira's despite Joannie's inconsistent jumps. (This is an objective statement that has nothing to do with whether I like Mira's attitude and style or not). Overall, Joannie comes across as a better skater where as watching Mira makes you wonder, who taught Mira? I think the many years of poor training technique and strategy of practicing only jumps through her formative years under Mama Leung's direction is undermining Mira's natural ability to jump.

You also brought up a good point about "if her jumps fail, she has nothing to fall back on". At 2006 worlds and olympics she skated clean programs and ended 12th and 13th. A skater who is very good who can skate a clean program should be able to place top five. So, when the jumps aren't there then she can only do worse than 12th or 13th.

But with a new season change is possible. Back to my original question, does anybody know if Mira is doing a new program or planning triples/triples in competition?

 

[passion]

Her spins are better than Joannie's, IMO.

Mira does have much better flexibility than Joannie, as well. If I do have one criticism about Joannie other than her consistency, it would be that Joannie seriously needs to work on her flexibility. All Mira has to do with her flexibility now is to make it look pretty with more stretch and line.

 

[slutskayafan21]

The obsession with this girl really is crazy. People treat her like some clueless bimbo with no talent. Doesn't make sense to me in the least.

Mira Leung should have won Canadian Nationals this year. She skated two solid, clean programs. THAT'S that most important talking point with regards to this skater, IMO. And yet, nobody discusses it.

And while her LP at Worlds was unfortunate, I DO think she was unfairly marked. She underrotated a 3Sal but made no other mistakes on that single jump and, because of the wonderful judging system, got less points for it than if she had done a 2Sal and actually put a hand down. Her first two spins plus her footwork sequence should have been marked a Level higher and I also don't believe her 3Toe should have been downgraded.

Mira did not deserve to win Canadians this year at all. Joannie had mistakes and she didnt, but the quality of the rest of Joannie's skating is so far superior to Mira's, she did not make enough mistakes to warrant losing to Mira even totally clean. The judges scored Joannie more highly then the same performance would elsewhere, but Mira as well, so it balances out.

Mira was actually overscored in the short program. She should have been further behind Hawker, and if she had been she might not have caught up in the free skate to go to Worlds.

As for Worlds she was not underscored at all. Both jumps you refer to were underrotated, and all her marks were exactly what she deserved. You must see more quality to her skating then is really there. Mira only has one true asset, her usual great consistency landing all her jumps, ugly and poor quality usually, but often landing all the hard jumps in a program which is impressive I concede. What you saw at Worlds is when her one true strength deserts her, her ability to land all the hardest jumps cleanly in a program, she has nothing to fall back on, not quality of jumps, spins, steps, and certainly not the second mark. That is why when her one true strength deserts her she comes in last place.

 

[redhotcoach]

The obsession with this girl really is crazy. People treat her like some clueless bimbo with no talent. Doesn't make sense to me in the least.

Mira Leung should have won Canadian Nationals this year. She skated two solid, clean programs. THAT'S that most important talking point with regards to this skater, IMO. And yet, nobody discusses it.

Umm. Were you actually sitting in the rather empty stands in Halifax this year for the Senior ladies short and long performances? It may not have been obvious on television, but the majority of Mira's programs were arm waving and crosscuts -- something the new judging system does not give bonus marks for. She skated so frenetically that no edge was held long enough to really be an edge - and her combination spins (at least in the short) seemed short rotations. Not to mention the spiral sequence, during which Mira never held a spiral position for longer than 2 seconds. The rule is 3 seconds for all spirals or else the sequence is not counted. I'd say the callers and judges were pretty gracious by giving her a high level for a spiral sequence that the Junior women would have had discounted.

On the other hand, Cythnia, Myriam and Joannie had real choreography with transitions and linking moves that were not based on waving arms and crosscuts. They all had edges and turns and held their spiral sequences and rotations in the spins.

Mira's jumps look rather cheated when you see them in person - at ice level - and it is not fair that she get credit for 'clean'jumps that the younger, less known skaters are penalized for doing the same thing.

 

[chuckm]

Maybe she did have 2 triple-triples. Skaters can have jumps and then "lose" them. From what I've read, that's not unusual.

She was the only one who thought she had triple/triples. The ISU callers saw triple doubles. In fact, many of her plain triples have been downgraded to doubles.

At her first competition last season, Skate America, Mira tried one of her 'triple triples', a 3Z3L, in the FS. The combination was downgraded and she received only 4.7 points for it. The callers downgraded her solo 3T and 3Z jumps to doubles as well.

At Skate Canada, she didn't attempt a 3/3, but her solo 3S and 3T were both downgraded to doubles.

At Worlds, the solo triples 3S, 3T and 3Z were all downgraded to doubles. Perhaps she was slightly injured at Worlds, but that doesn't account for the fact that she was underrotating the same jumps all season.

The problem as I see it is that Mira spends far too much time practicing when her coach is not present to give feedback. Her jump technique is not good, and she seems unable to grasp that something is wrong with her skating. So all that hard work and dedication is not helping her to achieve what she wants most.

There seems to quite a bit of reading into Mira's situation and her attitude. I know that we all do that, but why so negatively for this girl? She's so young.

Mira turned 18 in March, and that's not young for a figure skater. She's older than Mao Asada, Yu-Na Kim and Kimmie Meissner and is only 2 months younger than Emily Hughes.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Not to mention the spiral sequence, during which Mira never held a spiral position for longer than 2 seconds. The rule is 3 seconds for all spirals or else the sequence is not counted. I'd say the callers and judges were pretty gracious by giving her a high level for a spiral sequence that the Junior women would have had discounted.

Huh?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3giL2xsRlTY

Her positions are most definitely held for a sufficient amount of time? Definitely at least 3 seconds before and after the change-of-edge and in the backwards Spirals. LOL, this kind of odd demeaning of Mira Leung is what I'm talking about. I really don't get it.

On the other hand, Cythnia, Myriam and Joannie had real choreography with transitions and linking moves that were not based on waving arms and crosscuts.

Joannie's performance:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8_CGLZ4WAWo

I see absolutely no footwork before any of the jumps or spins? On the other hand, it looks like you're ignoring the several moments of one-foot skating Mira includes in her program, including before two of her spins. Check out 1:17, 3:18, and 4:28. She also includes steps before her first spin (they start at 1:50).

Arguments of Joannie being some kind of amazingly graceful or passionate skater are funny to me as well. I would agree that her actual program was better than Mira's but she really does not skate with much life. Throwing a spread eagle and a split jump into your program absolutely does not make up for 5 MAJOR mistakes.

Best of luck to both of them in the future. I have no favorite but it's pretty clear that Mira was better at that competition.

 

[Eddie Lee]

I words, alone, would improve Mira's skating, she has already received enough to win 2010 Olympic gold! Why can't we just leave it to the judges and her coach to solve her problems--if they are indeed so egregious?

 

[chuckm]

Gold Medalist, you completely ignore the fact that Mira chronically underrotates her jumps. She neglects working on her presentation to concentrate on the technical, but her faulty technique fails her in competition.

 

[nadster]

Huh?

Her positions are most definitely held for a sufficient amount of time? Definitely at least 3 seconds before and after the change-of-edge and in the backwards Spirals. LOL, this kind of odd demeaning of Mira Leung is what I'm talking about. I really don't get it.

Looking at those tapes , I notice Mira's blade was never on a deep sustained edge during that spiral sequence. Her blade was wavering back and forth ( and I am not talking about the deliberate change of edge in one spiral) showing a lack of edge quality.

Joannie's spirals were on much deeper sustained edges. This is what the judges prefer.

In general, Joannie had much better ice coverage and edge quality than Mira. The quality of Joannie's jumps was much higher and had more flow than Mira's as well. So although Mira landed more triples, she would have been held back by low GOE's.

 

[euterpe]

If Mira HAD won the 2007 Canadian Championship, her 24th place at Worlds would have been a major, major embarrassment for Canada.

 

[passion]

If Mira HAD won the 2007 Canadian Championship, her 24th place at Worlds would have been a major, major embarrassment for Canada.

I had never thought of that. In that light, Mira is definitely not ready to be Canadian Champion...yet.

 

[fumie_fumie]

A few things to clarify here.

It was Tracey Wilson at Nationals who mentioned that Joanne McLeod let go of Mira before the start of 2006/2007 season for the reasons I've described earlier. I think you should have watched the nationals from the beginning to the end to get the exact context of Tracey's explanation.

Who knows? This year could be a breakout season for her. I still think she needs to re-evaluate her skating particularly jumping to make some progress in international standings. Her spins are very good and she is extremely flexible. However, her strange take-off appears to be one of the causes of under-rotated jumps.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Gold Medalist, you completely ignore the fact that Mira chronically underrotates her jumps.

That's nice (or perhaps not - LOL), but she didn't at Canadian Nationals.

Joannie, on the other hand, downgraded 5 jumps. The quality of the jumps she did really wasn't much better either. I'd have given her a +1 for her first two jumps in the LP and a -1 for her Double Loop (hand down) and given Leung a +1 for her last jump in her LP...so that's like a +.7 advantage to Joannie overall. Not nearly enough to make up for the difference.

I won't even comment on the idea that Joannie has a strong Spiral Sequence...

Both of them have much work to do and I can't wait to see what they've come up with next season.

EDIT: Eeek, that was a weird typo.