who's on schedule to peak at Torino?

[soogar]

Joesitz,
Well I don't know the situation that Ilya was in, but having seen him on SOI and in professional events, Ilya really puts a lot of effort to get his skating out there to the audience and he has kept up his technical skills. He also speaks great English and has a fabulous sense of humor. Why can't Ilya demand more money? As far as I'm concerned, he busted his a$$ on tour , what more performance criteria would he need? Ilya definitely had the stuff to be the headliner on SOI after Kurt Browning.

I think there's a bit of hypocrisy and prejudice b/c Kristi and Kurt both put a lot of effort in their show skating and were financially rewarded for it while Ilya exerts the same effort and they don't want to renew his contract. SOI already took a beating when Tara got injured and I would say that they considered her a disappointment. There are lots of people who really enjoy Ilya's skating and if they didn't before the show, they change their mind after seeing him.

I love Todd's skating and while I don't advocate ditching him , Ilya has the stuff to headline the tour while Todd doesn't quite have the personality to carry the show on his shoulders.

If Ilya were American, it would be a whole different story. He would be getting work everywhere and he would be paid handsomely for it and could demand more money.

I wouldn't say that Alexei is more beloved than Ilya. If pro events were as prevalent as they used to be, Ilya would be getting lots of props for his skating. Alexei was just the new Russian and there was no room for another.

Yes SOI has many foreign skaters: probably b/c the USFSA is holding on to all the top American skaters. They couldn't get MK and Sarah wouldn't come on board (though I don't think she would have helped much) so they had to extend an offer to Yuka. If they weren't in such a tough pinch, they wouldn't have asked Yuka back (b/c they unceremoniously dropped her before) even though Yuka is a beautiful skater. However they did let Roz Sumners skate every year for 10-11 years even though she was only doing doubles and when she left the tour, she did so at her own choice.

 

[Grgranny]

Becca, have you seen Todd live? He really comes across much better live. Of course, I love Ilia too. I don't know who I would say let go in place of him. But I sure do like him. At least this year we didn't have to suffer through K Witt.

 

[Becca84]

Yes, I have seen Todd live - twice, once in '98 & this yr in SOI. I think he's a good skater, but he just doesn't seem to connect w/ the audience as well as others do. I have never seen Todd loosen up & just have fun. Anytime I've seen him he's doing a serious skate, which after awhile bores me...

Maybe SOI does go for the US & Canadian (Sumners & Browning) skaters more, but the tour IS in the US & Canada. No, it's not fair, but it all comes down to who the majority want to see. I'm sure the Americans wouldn't draw as big a crowd in Europe. But we really don't know what the reasons are for what happens & it's not really fair to assume anything! I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes w/ the show & I doubt anyone else here does either. For all we know, Ilia may have wanted to leave because of his marriage to Katia & their baby. But as for Ilia ever being a headliner, it would be hard, IMO. I never cared for Ilia till I saw one of his SOI performances. Before that I thought he was kinda boring (& I'd seen him live in '98 as well). Ilia could be a draw for anyone who saw him in SOI, but I don't think anyone would come just to see him live for the first time. IMO, Alexei, B&S, & S&P, on the other hand, all have trade mark moves & were enjoyed by all in their competitive careers, so they are big draws no matter which country they are from! As for Yuka, I don't think she ever had a hugely strong fan base here, but I'm not sure...

Oh, & as an example of some US skaters NOT being given preference in SOI - Kyoko & John & Jenni & Todd are the only pairs who don't skate twice (while B&S & S&P do)...

Anyway, I don't want to have an SOI argument - these are just MO...

 

[Becca84]

Oh, & I think K. Witt is a good skater, but she does bore me to ....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Soogar - I respect your views on skating - no problem. However, neither you nor I know what happened to Ilia's contract with SOI. Like other posters, I was never impressed with his competitive skating but he did improve greatly while at SOI to the point where I would definitely want to see him in SOI. If anyone knows anything about SOI and Ilia, please let us know.

One other thing. I really don't think it is incumbent on the US to to give jobs to non US skaters. COI and SOI know what they want and at what price they are willing to pay. They are in control. In the case of SOI, they have it easy to hire eligible non American skaters, so what happened to Ilia is still a mystery.

I would like to know more about the European Ice Shows and how they are doing. I've always liked to watch Denise Bielman even without THE spin. And we could wonder why they are not hiring European skaters like Ilia.

Joe

 

[RealtorGal]

Icenut, I found it interesting that among all your ladies choices, you didn't mention Shizuka, the new World Champion! What is your reasoning? Just curious!

 

[icenut84]

Icenut, I found it interesting that among all your ladies choices, you didn't mention Shizuka, the new World Champion! What is your reasoning? Just curious!

I forgot! Oops. lol. I certainly didn't leave her out for any bad reason - I just forgot about her. (I'm a scatterbrain.)
Shizuka could definitely be a threat in 06, if this year is anything to go by. I hope she doesn't get injured from the kind of jumps she's doing - I wonder if she'll even step it up by the time 06 rolls round! She could be doing 3-3-3. (I think she's done that in practice - I think Kostner's done 3-3-3s in practice too.) I really don't know though. So many things could happen...

 

[soogar]

I'm not sure about Shizuka even though she'll be the same age as Kerrigan in '94. I loved her program but this could have been her peak (I hope not). I think Sasha has a way to go before peaking and the timing will be right for her in Torino. Go ahead flame me, but MK peaked in 1998 and she's been on cruise control since. With the trend going on in the Olympics for MK, I won't be surprised if she doesn't make the podium in Torino.

On Ilya: He's getting work in Europe, but there aren't as many shows plus things are really expensive (cost of living) in Europe. The real demand in skating is from North America. I think NA want to be entertained and couldn't care less on the nationality of the skater. I'd rather see a great performance from a european skater rather than a crappy one from an american. Conversely, when World Professionals aired, I thought Rory Flack Burghardt (no title) was a million times more entertaining than silver medalist Rosalynn Summers, 2 time gold medalist Katarina Witt and silver medalist Nancy Kerrigan COMBINED.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I reiterate - It is not incumbent on the US to give work to non Americans. And the work the Ice Shows do give is in the interst of the business. If the business fails then that's the blame of the business people. So if SOI fails, you can blame it on not having a majority of Russian skaters in their company.

Can you imagine me living in Ruissia and hoping to see Sasha Cohen in an Ice Revue?

If you are living in America and are making gobs and gobs of money, you could fly to Europe and see all the wonderful happy European skaters.

Joe

 

[sarahmistral]

I guess we're speaking two different languages then, Joe, because the way I see it, it's more an issue of skating perhaps daring to transcend the world of nations and imagined communities (the latter the title of a book I read in grad school that picks the nation as historical construct, and though that's certainly another can of worms, it's the one that informs my own perspective on matters such as this one as citizen of the world) and fans' love of getting to experience live skating (and show skating, mind you, where no one's competing for a nation and everyone gets to let their hair down and forget for a moment about national allegiances) making them care little or not at all about whether a foreigner came from across the globe to 'take work' from an American skater.

However, that may be in a perfect world, and fans will be fans, patriotic even at events where it's just about showing off your skating and there are no medals to be had for any country, and no judges from any country, but in a perfect world, just for the record, or rather, in my perfect world, Sasha Cohen (whom they love around the world, last I checked, be it Moscow, Dortmund, or D.C.) would have no problem touring with an ice revue in Russia so fans of skating there could see one of the world's best, and those wonderful happy European skaters, among whom there are some of the world's best as well, could come here and tour and be applauded for their efforts, because I, for one, won't be making gobs and gobs of money anytime soon in order to be able to afford to go see, say, the adorable Alexander Abt, tour Japan or Russia.

My whole thing is, why not encourage the love of skating over the love of country, rather than going the way of an "Ice Wars", a ridiculous concept to me if ever there was one, bringing all the negative showdown feelings about people on different ends of the planet from competitive skating to a show, where, I continue to contend, it should be all about the beauty of skating.


Whatever, agreeing to disagree, maybe it is just about cold hard cash, business, and work permits in the US for Americans first (I guess entertainers are subject to the same constraints that a rigid concept of the us vs. them national construct imposes on the rest of us), but I just wanted to reiterate my point as well, as the nature of this forum always strikes me as not being dismissive of any particular point of view, barring chronic bashers or otherwise disrespectful people.

Thanks for reading,
Sarah

 

[Kateri]

Sarah, ITA....and for the record, Sasha skated a show here in the UK - before the queen, no less (if you care about that sort of thing... )

I was there...she did a cute routine mixed with rhythm gymnastics - with the ribbon on a stick.

So she has been invited to do shows abroad.

k

 

[sarahmistral]

You were there!?!?!?!

It must have been gorgeous, not only the skating but also the setting; I saw pictures of it on Sasha's website, and it looked like quite the momentous occasion

I'm sooo jealous

Sarah

 

[Kateri]

It was fun, I liked Sasha very much, though I really went to see A&P! She was doing jumps, twirling the ribbon around her as she span (spun? spinned??), looking like a....spinning ribbon...uh corkscrew thing!

I thought I should go, as it was the only chance I figured I'd get to see live skating in the UK...
someday I'll go to worlds!!

kat.

 

[mzheng]

I believe she did some ribbon number in COI shows back in 2000 or 2001 when she had back injury, she couldn't jump so she choose to do some gymnastics moves on ice that year.

 

[Pati]

Go ahead flame me, but MK peaked in 1998 and she's been on cruise control since.

Not gonna flame ya, but I will most strongly disagree. I think last year's performances were not even close to "cruising" as you put it. This year's too minus the mistakes. (she is entitled to make the occasional mistake, she's only human)

Next season will tell us a lot about her chances for gold in 2006. I am really hoping she does the GP. She hasn't done a program choreographed for COP yet. Not until she does will we really know how she will do (assuming of course that COP is being used by then), not to mention seeing how she will be judged.

 

[Ximena]

ITA agree with Pati, Michelle was in a great form last season, of course she didn't do any 3-3 but she was in top form.
I do hope too she does GP this season, not only to see her judged by COP but also because I believe if she wants those 3-3 consistent she needs to compete more, then again is up to the skaters, some skaters work better when they don't have that much competitions but others don't. I don't think Michelle really expected that level of competition the kind Arakawa or Miki or any other who did two triple-triple, now she needs that back.
Same goes for Irina but Irina not competing is for way different reasons

 

[RealtorGal]

I don't think Michelle really expected that level of competition the kind Arakawa or Miki or any other who did two triple-triple, now she needs that back.

Why do you think she did not expect that level of competition this year? After all, she lost 2 OGM to girls who pulled off 3/3s. She knows what's going on, even if she isn't actually competing. I doubt there were any real surprises as far as the technical abilities of other skaters goes. I think she was just counting on them not being able to pull out all the stops and put it together enough to take the title.

 

[mzheng]

Why do you think she did not expect that level of competition this year? After all, she lost 2 OGM to girls who pulled off 3/3s. She knows what's going on, even if she isn't actually competing. I doubt there were any real surprises as far as the technical abilities of other skaters goes. I think she was just counting on them not being able to pull out all the stops and put it together enough to take the title.

I agree the first half. She and her coach knew all along the threaten come from Japanese when every one on FS boared kept talking about SC as a majore competetitor. That's why she hired RA, and RA worked with her.

I strongly disagree the second half that she just counting on others fail. IIRC once there was an little girl fan told her when MK in competetion she wished her competetion bad luck. Michelle said to the girl, just wish me luck, don't wish others bad luck. Skated the best she can under the circumtance always be her goal, she knows she can control how other skaters skates. Being in bussiness that long she knows what to expect, you can't win all the time. It was amazing that she already wins so much.

 

[Longhornliz]

I've been thinking lately about what michelle said in her fluff peice about how she now realizes that you do have highs and lows in a season and that she cant expect to maintain a peak performance during the entire season.

If you think about how this translates in the long term, perhaps it is her strategy NOT to have a 3/3 in this past season. Maybe its not worth the risk of injury to her, and she will attempt to build up to a peak in the next olympic season? Same could be said about Sasha, little has been said about her quad since the last olympics and she has not had a consistent 3/3. Maybe she is holding out, hoping that the jumping beans in this season will not be able to sustain the pressure that level of jump puts on the body over a long period of time.

 

[Becca84]

If you think about how this translates in the long term, perhaps it is her strategy NOT to have a 3/3 in this past season. Maybe its not worth the risk of injury to her, and she will attempt to build up to a peak in the next olympic season? Same could be said about Sasha, little has been said about her quad since the last olympics and she has not had a consistent 3/3. Maybe she is holding out, hoping that the jumping beans in this season will not be able to sustain the pressure that level of jump puts on the body over a long period of time.

Well, it would make sense if that was their strategy! I really hope that all the pressure to do 3-3 jumps doesn't cause more injuries. It seems like the guys have had more difficulties now that they are regularly doing quads...