Why don't figure skaters trash talk?

[Tonight's the Night]

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I think I would find it weird if one of my favorite Russian ladies or favorite ice dance teams did some trash talking and then went out on the ice and did the beautiful things they do. Not only would I find it weird, I think it would make their work less beautiful.

Also I think there's a kind of vulnerability in skating -- you really put yourself out there emotionally -- and that is incompatible with the tough act involved in trash talking. There has to be a supportive community; people don't take emotional risks if they don't feel trust.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Thinking on this, it's true that there did used to be some trash talk in figure skating, maybe it stopped because figure skaters just aren't good at it?

In my extensive research into Plushy's career I did see him and Yagudin make comments that could be trash talking. My personal favourite was Yagudin ragging on Plushy saying "No-one cares who's Russian National Champion" but since the dude never actually was one, it fell rather flat

Then there was Brian Joubert at the 2005 Euros who on hearing Plushy was planning to withdraw due to illness was all: "He's not sick, he's just afraid to face me."

Well you can imagine the look on his face (you can find it on YouTube somwhere actually) when rather than withdraw Plushy came out and nailed the LP and won the event. Meanwhile poor Brian J missed the podium.

Quality karma.

 

[Harriet]

Is 'trash talk' some weird American subculture? I get that it might be a thing in pro wrestling and reality TV shows, but not real life. In places I've lived (Britain, NZ, Asia) most people seem to frown on it as immature. Unless they're into pro wrestling or reality TV, of course. Or politics.

If the Australian men's cricket team engages in it, you can be 100% sure it's immature. Also toxic, stupid and all-round reprehensible.

 

[LadyB]

Confidence is a good look, arrogance is not.

Says it all!

 

[karne]

I'm not sure figure skating fans are the type to enjoy trash talk...in fact I think trash talk is starting to become unpopular in many sports. I know here in Australia quite a few people don't much care for our cricket team because of their tendency to sledge (aka trash talk).

If the Australian men's cricket team engages in it, you can be 100% sure it's immature. Also toxic, stupid and all-round reprehensible.

Yeah, because the Australians are the evil villains of the cricket world who are the only ones who do anything bad and every other cricket-playing nation is full of perfect little angels who never do a single thing wrong

Anyway, a key point of trash-talking is that you have to be able to back it up. Ice is slippery and strange things happen. If you trash talk then fall on your ass, you're going to look like an idiot, aka Patrick Chan trash-talking Plushenko before Vancouver and then proceeding to finish well down the order there.

 

[ladyjane]

So why don't figure skaters trash talk? Most athletes do it, and that's how they build their huge brands and following. They aren't trash talking to bring someone down, or to make someone feel bad, rather, they're saying they have the confidence to win it all; and entertaining the fans in the process.

I'm so glad they don't as a rule (apart from some exceptions maybe). Ugh. Yuck. I don't mind any athlete having so much confidence that they think they can win, but I don't think it's fun to listen to an athlete talk someone else down in that context (even if that isn't really meant). What arrogance. Not before, not after the competition. Definitely not entertaining me as a fan. And I follow Figure Skating since the 80s, have loved and admired athletes from all over the World. Since I started doing adult skating, I admire the athletes even more, and especially if they respect and admire their competitors. No wonder I hardly enjoy other sports if that's the way athletes treat each other in those sports (although there are many other reasons for not really enjoying other sports).

 

[WednesdayMarch]

What Ic3Rabbit said. All of it.

Figure skating is an art as well as a sport, and the elites all know each other and many train together. Everybody wants to do their best and win fairly but it's not as clear cut as a sport that is won by a number of goals, a time on a stopwatch or which combatant is beaten to a pulp.

And anyway, we're not at home to Mr or Mrs Rude.

 

[LastSacrifice]

What Ic3Rabbit said. All of it.

Figure skating is an art as well as a sport, and the elites all know each other and many train together. Everybody wants to do their best and win fairly but it's not as clear cut as a sport that is won by a number of goals, a time on a stopwatch or which combatant is beaten to a pulp.

And anyway, we're not at home to Mr or Mrs Rude.

I completely agree that being rude is unacceptable and unappealing. But if you trash talk before the competition starts, that's more putting yourself on the line than it is bringing down the competition and/or disrepecting them. I also think if the skaters are familiar with each other it's easier to banter or trash talk because they would be able to laugh it off as friends. Personally, me and my training mates trashed each other a lot when competing; when I win, I get to look cocky and when I lose, I get laughed at; all in good humor.

However, it doesn't even have to appearing super arrogant or cocky, for example, if Bradie Tennell were to say, "I think the only thing me and Alysa Liu agree on, is that we're not losing to the other." I doubt anyone would find that rude or arrogant, but it's certainly a lot more interesting than "the competition looks really tough this year, I'm honored to be competing with these skaters." Same goes for Nathan Chen saying something like "It's hard to do better than 5 titles in a row, so if I don't win this year, it'll be a failure." That's not coming off as disrespectful, but really interesting, and it's telling the fans to "Watch me."

 

[alexocfp]

I think the close knit community aspect of this sport discourages trash talking.

There are only a few clubs producing the elite athletes. So most elite skaters are training with their main rivals. That is already a deterrent to trash talking.

Plus, the figure skating culture is not one that lends itself to trash talking. It’s more a sport of friendly competition.

I can see judges being turned off by it and marking you down for doing it as well.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Figure skating is a very interesting sport to view. I don't believe trash talk is necessary, and is only a way to alienate fans.
I personally would never talk trash about my competitors. When I'm at a competition, that competition is my 100% focus. I can literally not afford to think about anything else other than skating the program.

Trash talk (talking or being talked about) can mentally affect yourself and others, and skaters don't want to win/lose this way. They want to win based on merit.

I don't like to talk to competitors before a competition, and my competitors have exactly the same mindset. At competition it's best to focus on yourself, and then afterwards you can talk and have banter with other skaters if appropriate. Banter is alright during training (although in reality if you are talking a lot or speaking to other skaters, this may not be affective training), and maybe before and after. But remember, it's a brutal sport, as very rarely do some opportunities ever occur, and when they do you need to maximise all your performance possible on the day - because all the training can often come down to one competition (be it nationals, getting minimum TES for championships, the championships themselves).

With things like boxing, anger is good and can be channelled. In figure skating, element timings require immense levels of precision and you have to fully focus on those. There may be Anime shows like "Yuri on Ice" who have these very weird and strange thought process voiced allowed for the characters, but this is not the case. In order to accomplish quad toe, you need to be focussed to set up for a triple toe. You can't think "I'm going to land this quad toe and shove this in my competitors face and prove him wrong". In any other sport, anger helps you to channel inner energy which will help, but in figure skating you need a calm mindset and to focus on the technique (maybe use energy to save jumps, but the takeoffs need precision).

Think about how many people already hate Nathan - simply for doing nothing other than their disagreements with the judges. How many fans blatantly go around saying things like "He makes me want to throw up, he should get negative PCS" "Nathan deserved to come last in Nationals" etc (Of course, these are very exaggerated to make a point).
Imagine the sheer level of hate Nathan would get if he ever dreamed about saying anything negative about Hanyu or Jason Brown.

In general, not a good idea all around.
I may have digressed a lot here, so welcome to my ted talk I guess :?

 

[alexocfp]

Also should mention that it won’t work anyway. These skaters have fallen, have failed, have been through it all to get to the top. You think some words are going to affect them?

What are you going to do? Trash talk Shcherbakova, for instance, to get her off her game? Good luck with that.

 

[LastSacrifice]

Also should mention that it won’t work anyway. These skaters have fallen, have failed, have been through it all to get to the top. You think some words are going to affect them?

What are you going to do? Trash talk Shcherbakova, for instance, to get her off her game? Good luck with that.

I think you're equating trash talk with trying to gain a competitive edge or directing hate towards someone. Trash talk isn't and shouldn't be about that. I'm pointing out that skaters can add to the broadcasts and storylines if they say things like "X is a good skater, I'm gonna beat him/her anyways." The point isn't actually to put someone down, but to put yourself out there and to make people interested in the competition. Competitions are shows at the end of the day, if personalities are just super generic and boring that's not interesting at all.

 

[YuBluByMe]

I completely agree that being rude is unacceptable and unappealing. But if you trash talk before the competition starts, that's more putting yourself on the line than it is bringing down the competition and/or disrespecting them. I also think if the skaters are familiar with each other it's easier to banter or trash talk because they would be able to laugh it off as friends. Personally, me and my training mates trashed each other a lot when competing; when I win, I get to look cocky and when I lose, I get laughed at; all in good humor.

Exactly. There’s a working assumption that trash talk is always loud and obnoxious and that’s untrue. It doesn’t have to be and it’s not how runners do it. It’s fun banter. One of my rivals was known for her form: She ran with high knees – very unusual for a sprinter – with both hands at breast level, palms up as if she was about to play pattycake. This is the prissiest form you will ever see. I trashed talked her all the time about it (I called her “Princess”) and she trashed talk right back.

“When are you going to start running like a real runner?”

“When you beat me like a real runner. It’s going to be a very long time I think.”

We were going at it before a race one day and she joked about changing my nickname for her from Princess to Your Majesty after she wins. I promptly lost but refused to change her nickname and bought her a hot dog instead. Our trash talking became a running joke and I would go on to buy her a lot of hot dogs.

This is just an example, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is perfectly acceptable in track & field. Is it necessary? No, but it’s fun. It can even be relaxing.

Plus, the figure skating culture is not one that lends itself to trash talking.

Agreed. But I think it’s the culture and the nature of the sport, and not the close knit community. The running community is close knit too; the top runners especially all know each other well. It’s actually part of the reason why trash talking isn't a big deal.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I think you're equating trash talk with trying to gain a competitive edge or directing hate towards someone. Trash talk isn't and shouldn't be about that. I'm pointing out that skaters can add to the broadcasts and storylines if they say things like "X is a good skater, I'm gonna beat him/her anyways." The point isn't actually to put someone down, but to put yourself out there and to make people interested in the competition. Competitions are shows at the end of the day, if personalities are just super generic and boring that's not interesting at all.

They aren't shows. They are where skaters (or athletes in general) compete to see who comes out on top - who is the best. Skaters don't compete for your benefit, they compete for their own benefit to try and win.
Trash talk doesn't make personalities interesting in my opinion. Honestly, half the time it just makes me cringe. It's like the class clown distracting others from working - some (mostly people who don't care about school) are deeply amused and want the class clown to continue. Others are there in school to learn. At the end of the day, anybody who actually cares about school doesn't necessarily mind if the class clown shuts up.

It's totally unnecessary and doesn't improve the sport. As athletes, we are there to show the best of ourselves. Not the worst.

I don't know any figure skating fan that would care for it. They are there to watch the skating and the quality of the skating, not have an athlete gloat that they are better than other athletes.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Exactly . There’s a working assumption that trash talk is always loud and obnoxious and that’s untrue. It doesn’t have to be and it’s not how runners do it. It’s fun banter. One of my rivals was known for her form: She ran with high knees – very unusual for a sprinter – with both hands at breast level, palms up as if she was about to play pattycake. This is the prissiest form you will ever see. I trashed talked her all the time about it (I called her “Princess”) and she trashed talk right back.

“When are you going to start running like a real runner?”

“When you beat me like a real runner. It’s going to be a very long time I think.”

We were going at it before a race one day and she joked about changing my nickname for her from Princess to Your Majesty after she wins. I promptly lost but refused to change her nickname and bought her a hot dog instead. Our trash talking became a running joke and I would go on to buy her a lot of hot dogs.

This is just an example, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is perfectly acceptable in track & field. Is it necessary? No, but it’s fun. It can even be relaxing.



Agreed. But I think it’s the culture and the nature of the sport, and not the close knit community. The running community is close knit too; the top runners especially all know each other well. It’s actually part of the reason why trash talking isn't a big deal.

Thats in private. Would you go on live television in a press before the event, and say that that runner doesn't run like a proper runner, or say to the cameras that you will beat the other runner because you are significantly faster?

EDIT: Sorry for double-post, was unable to edit my post with additional multi-quote for some reason.

 

[el henry]

I think you're equating trash talk with trying to gain a competitive edge or directing hate towards someone. Trash talk isn't and shouldn't be about that. I'm pointing out that skaters can add to the broadcasts and storylines if they say things like "X is a good skater, I'm gonna beat him/her anyways." The point isn't actually to put someone down, but to put yourself out there and to make people interested in the competition. Competitions are shows at the end of the day, if personalities are just super generic and boring that's not interesting at all.

But when you follow figure skating, you learn all the personalities. And I can assure you that Jason, Jimmy Ma, Alex K, Nathan, Vincent, all have wonderful and fun and engaging personalities. (if I left someone off, not deliberate, just going through random names ). You can do great "Up Close and Personal: without trash talk.

"Hey, you call that a triple axel, not on my ice buddy, imma hittin' 300 points this comp?" *in public* isn't particularly funny, engaging, or anything, except reminiscent of seventh graders trying to come up with the dozens.

I find the real respect among skaters much more engaging. And this from someone who froze her butt off in the 700 section of the Vet back in the day. And if you don't know what that is, you don't know trash talk

 

[YuBluByMe]

Thats in private. Would you go on live television in a press before the event, and say that that runner doesn't run like a proper runner, or say to the cameras that you will beat the other runner because you are significantly faster?

EDIT: Sorry for double-post, was unable to edit my post with additional multi-quote for some reason.

First example: No, unless she was with me in the event. If she was, I will say something to her about it, but I wouldn't word it "doesn't run like a proper runner." I would say something like, "You're going to be the one buying me a hot dog today because you still got those high knees." This is fine because people knew about the hot dogs.

Second example: If I'm asked if I will beat another runner, I absolutely will say I will win because I'm significantly faster.

"Do you think you will beat Runner B?"
"Absolutely, Sir. I have a second helping on her."

What's wrong with that? Anyone can have a bad day, but running is not a judged sport and barring injury, performance level doesn't change significantly from race to race. I'm not going to suddenly be three seconds slower from my last race. So if I'm a second faster than someone I know I'm going to win. What's wrong with just saying it aloud when asked? Audacious? Arrogant? Maybe, but I best back it up. How else am I supposed to answer it? Simply say yes but leave out the reason?

 

[LastSacrifice]

But when you follow figure skating, you learn all the personalities. And I can assure you that Jason, Jimmy Ma, Alex K, Nathan, Vincent, all have wonderful and fun and engaging personalities. (if I left someone off, not deliberate, just going through random names ). You can do great "Up Close and Personal: without trash talk.

"Hey, you call that a triple axel, not on my ice buddy, imma hittin' 300 points this comp?" *in public* isn't particularly funny, engaging, or anything, except reminiscent of seventh graders trying to come up with the dozens.

I find the real respect among skaters much more engaging. And this from someone who froze her butt off in the 700 section of the Vet back in the day. And if you don't know what that is, you don't know trash talk

There's a pretty far cry between "Hey, you call that a triple axel, not on my ice buddy, imma hittin' 300 points this comp?" and "It's hard to do better than I've already done, so if I don't do better than 300 this comp, it's gonna be a disappointment." or "People say I'm the best American skater but I want people to say I'm the best skater. period."

Trash talk isn't about disrespect, it's really about whether you're willing to bet against everyone and prove them wrong.

I disagree with most skaters have different and/or engaging personalities; every skater's interview is "I still got a long way to go". It sounds like there are no unique motivations other "wanting to compete with the best" or "improve myself". It's like watching a movie and all the character's motivations and backstory are just "I want to win". Completely 2 dimensional.

 

[el henry]

There's a pretty far cry between "Hey, you call that a triple axel, not on my ice buddy, imma hittin' 300 points this comp?" and "It's hard to do better than I've already done, so if I don't do better than 300 this comp, it's gonna be a disappointment." or "People say I'm the best American skater but I want people to say I'm the best skater. period."

Trash talk isn't about disrespect, it's really about whether you're willing to bet against everyone and prove them wrong.

I disagree with most skaters have different and/or engaging personalities; every skater's interview is "I still got a long way to go". It sounds like there are no unique motivations other "wanting to compete with the best" or "improve myself". It's like watching a movie and all the character's motivations and backstory are just "I want to win". Completely 2 dimensional.

You aren't reading enough interviews, that simply isn't true.

I don't have the time to list them all here now, but I will come back tonight so you can see just how honest and thoughtful the skaters' interviews are.

 

[el henry]

First example: No, unless she was with me in the event. If she was, I will say something to her about it, but I wouldn't word it "doesn't run like a proper runner." I would say something like, "You're going to be the one buying me a hot dog today because you still got those high knees." This is fine because people knew about the hot dogs.

Second example: If I'm asked if I will beat another runner, I absolutely will say I will win because I'm significantly faster.

"Do you think you will beat Runner B?"
"Absolutely, Sir. I have a second helping on her."

What's wrong with that? Anyone can have a bad day, but running is not a judged sport. If I'm a second faster than someone I know I'm going to win. What's wrong with just saying it aloud when asked? Audacious? Arrogant? Maybe, but I best back it up. How else am I supposed to answer it? Simply say yes but leave out the reason?

Sorry I didn't see your earlier post until now, but I should be able to remember both (I hope)

I am confused. I see nothing wrong with two friends, who know they are joshing each other, saying, Man I'm gonna land that 4A today, you just wait and see, and the other saying in your dreams, pal. So we agree on that. And if it's public, as long as it's between friends, well, I don't see the point, it's not particularly interesting to *me*, but maybe that comes from my long-time NFL fandom and seeing way too much of it

I don't understand figure skating *fans* being thin skinned. Again, maybe I am personalizing too much, but let's take my fav, Jason. I can recite the usual criticisms leveled against him in my sleep. When I respond to one of them and say, no, not true, how can say you that, makes no sense, it's because I am a robust and passionate fan of my fav skater. I am being the opposite of thin skinned.

Unless you mean something else