Why figure skating is not a sport (Article)

[Mathman]

Somebody earlier on pointed out the real reason these stupid men raise the "its not a sport" thing all the time...its the sequins and music...

Yes, I agree that this is the problem that people have with putting ice skating in the same macho category as, say, hockey or auto racing.

I think the real distiction is not whether a sport is judged or not, but whether there is a "second mark." In "real sports" it only matters what you do, not how pretty you look doing it. In sports like figure skating, diving, equestrian, etc., you are judged not only by how many jumps and turns you do, but on your style. This isn't "manly." Real men win ugly and are damn proud of it! :sheesh:

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I also agree with Ant about the sequins and costumes. I think if skaters wore the same attire during a competition, the concentration would be on pure skating and not on some glamour aspect.

I think too, that many posters here would not want that. They like the fashion show which, imo, is the main reason for some people not to consider it a sport.

Can you imagine those Divers in assorted bathing togs.?

Joe

 

[lindasaffell]

A question of logic

That's where I would disagree with him. A contest has competitors, a sport has athletes. If you are performing and are being judged on your performance, then how can that be sport? JMHO.

Hi Red,

So, are you saying that athletes cannot be competitors? Are you defining sport as athleticism purely for the sake of um, athletics or of the individual athlete him or herself? Like, sport is purely when one competes with herself? I think that's an odd definition of sport, but if that's yours I can see how you would interpret figure skating in competition as not a sport.

 

[lindasaffell]

Potato, potahto?

I think the real distiction is not whether a sport is judged or not, but whether there is a "second mark." In "real sports" it only matters what you do, not how pretty you look doing it. In sports like figure skating, diving, equestrian, etc., you are judged not only by how many jumps and turns you do, but on your style. This isn't "manly." Real men win ugly and are damn proud of it! :sheesh:

But then, we've all probably seen the clips of big football players moving so gracefully that you have to admire form as well as function. And there IS something to the efficiency and fluidity of motion being naturally beautiful. What you do can to some degree depend very much on HOW you do it, no?

 

[orangemonkey558]

It makes sense...

 

[Mathman]

But then, we've all probably seen the clips of big football players moving so gracefully that you have to admire form as well as function. And there IS something to the efficiency and fluidity of motion being naturally beautiful. What you do can to some degree depend very much on HOW you do it, no?

Well, to me, yes and no. High jumping and pole vaulting are good examples. You have to have proper form or you're not going to make it over the bar.

Still, either you make it over the bar or you don't. You can't win the contest by almost making it over the bar and then winning on the second mark over someone like Nakano who did make it over the bar but wrapped her leg.

Anyway, I like figure skating the best, so what do I care what people call it?

MM

PS. Speaking of fluidity of motion, I discovered my new favorite Summer Olympic sport when I saw it for the first time in 2004 -- horse dancing! What's cool about this sport is that the moves are based on stylistic interpretations of natural gaits (canter, trot, etc.). :agree:

 

[R.D.]

Hi Red,

So, are you saying that athletes cannot be competitors? Are you defining sport as athleticism purely for the sake of um, athletics or of the individual athlete him or herself? Like, sport is purely when one competes with herself? I think that's an odd definition of sport, but if that's yours I can see how you would interpret figure skating in competition as not a sport.

My personal thought is that a "sport" is an athletic activity with rules and that "governs itself" (i.e. non-judged). Now, in most sports you have referees which are there to make sure the rules are followed. This is where the definition might get a bit muddled...see, I believe that refs (let's forget about questionable calls for now) in MOST cases don't decide the OUTCOME of the game, they just make sure no rules are being broken. Now, of course you get those games where there are bad calls, or the refs have no choice but to make a call which might ultimately decide the game. But here's the difference- in sports, the fate is almost always in the PLAYER'S HANDS. In a judged sport you really have no control over your destiny. All you can do is perform your best and hope the judges make the *right* decision.


IMO- events with judges- NOT sports.

Sports ARE competitions. But just because an event is a competition doesn't make it a sport IMO.

 

[jsteam4501s]

Well, I simply feel that it is the athletes - that term specifically - that makes an activity a sport - regardless of how the winner is determined, judged or not. If you are watching athletes doing what attaches the term "athletes" to them, you are watching a sport. Period.

If you say that golfers are athletes, then you cannot say that golf is not a sport.

If you say that divers are athletes, then you cannot say that diving is not a sport.

If you say that snowboarders are athletes, then you cannot say that snowboarding is not a sport.

So - if you say that figure skaters are athletes, then you cannot say that figure skating is not a sport.

For me, it is that simplistic.

 

[julietvalcouer]

PS. Speaking of fluidity of motion, I discovered my new favorite Summer Olympic sport when I saw it for the first time in 2004 -- horse dancing! What's cool about this sport is that the moves are based on stylistic interpretations of natural gaits (canter, trot, etc.). :agree:

Horse dancing? The only Oly horse sports I know of, unless they added something, are show jumping, 3-day, dressage, and reining. There is a section of the dressage called the Kur or musical freestyle, but don't let the freestyle fool you. "Interpretation" is limited to 'pick out music that the crowd might like but won't annoy the judges more than they already are by having a musical phase at all'. (The Kur's kinda in there because some riders like it and because it makes dressage accessable to non-dressage-riders and the general public, who usually haven't got the faintest idea what's going on during a dressage test. Which makes sense--because the essence of dressage is minimalizing the rider and keeping the horse as close to a textbook ideal as possible, watching it you're looking for tiny, tiny details.) Otherwise, you get a set list of moves you must perform in the Kur and they have to be done to the same standard as in the first two phases where everyone rides exactly the same tests with no music. Basically, it's two phases of figures and a short program with no free program.

 

[SusanBeth]

Sorry if this is OT. Do equestrian events get flack about not being sports too? It seems to me that most of the effort is from the horse or at least a large portion of it. If figure skating isn't a sport, I can't imagine that being considered a sport.

 

[Mathman]

There is a section of the dressage called the Kur or musical freestyle, but don't let the freestyle fool you. "Interpretation" is limited to 'pick out music that the crowd might like but won't annoy the judges more than they already are by having a musical phase at all'. (The Kur's kinda in there because some riders like it and because it makes dressage accessible to non-dressage-riders and the general public, who usually haven't got the faintest idea what's going on during a dressage test...

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, the Musical Freestyle. It makes the sport fun and accessible to non-riders and the general public.

Sort of like how music and costumes make the sport of figure skating fun and accessible to non-skaters and the general public.

Obviously, equestrian events would be "more like real sports" if the horses didn't dance to music and if the riders didn't wear such silly outfits, but that's entertainment. No one would ever watch a figure skating contest if it consisted merely of one contestant after another just running systematically through through their array of jumps and spins wearing an old sweatshirt. (That would be too much like school figures, LOL.)

BTW, if you click HERE you can order the CD of all of Anky van Grunsven's horse dancing music. The CD is titled "Anky's music from Atlanta to Athens" and is 60 minutes of all original compositions that she used in her Olympic Kur performances.

 

[Mathman]

Do equestrian events get flack about not being sports too? It seems to me that most of the effort is from the horse or at least a large portion of it.

Well, horse racing is a sport -- indeed, it is "the sport of kings," LOL.

So is cock fighting. So I guess the idea is that the breeders and trainers are athletes, matching their expertise and technical prowess against that of the other competitors.

Note that, according to this thread's working definition of what constitutes a "sport," these sports qualify. They are not judged. Whichever horse crosses the finish line first, wins. Whichever chicken disembowels the other, wins. No judging involved.

MM

 

[SusanBeth]

Well, horse racing is a sport -- indeed, it is "the sport of kings," LOL.

So is cock fighting. So I guess the idea is that the breeders and trainers are athletes, matching their expertise and technical prowess against that of the other competitors.

Note that, according to this thread's working definition of what constitutes a "sport," these sports qualify. They are not judged. Whichever horse crosses the finish line first, wins. Whichever chicken disembowels the other, wins. No judging involved.

MM

Dressage is judged though. I suddenly feel sorry for the horses. I don't suppose a medal and an anthem would make their day. Let's hope they get treated really well anyway.

 

[shine]

Not a sport? Then be it. It's figure skating, a unique thing straddling both art and sport, and is neither. What's the big deal with it not being a sport?

 

[Mathman]

I suddenly feel sorry for the horses. I don't suppose a medal and an anthem would make their day. Let's hope they get treated really well anyway.

Well, it beats pulling a plow.

That's a great question, though. Obviously we can't read an animal's mind.

But in horse racing, for instance, it always seemed to me like the winner just KNEW he beat all the other horses' butts, now gimme my roses!

In dog shows, it seems like when those gorgeous critters prance around the ring, they KNOW they're pretty and are darn proud of it. "Hey, hey, hey, everybody, look at me, look at me, look at me!!!" (The smaller breeds anyway, LOL.)

As for the equestrian mounts, I am not an insider (as is obvious by my post on "horse dancing, LOL), but I get the feeling that the owners/riders just love their equine partners to pieces. I don't see how you could be in the sport if you didn't feel that way.

MM

 

[R.D.]

Not a sport? Then be it. It's figure skating, a unique thing straddling both art and sport, and is neither. What's the big deal with it not being a sport?

ITA. I'm not sure I understand the mentality of those vehemently INSISTING it's a sport (or not a sport). I just happen to think one way and if others think another way, no sleep lost on my part. That's all.

 

[SusanBeth]

ITA. I'm not sure I understand the mentality of those vehemently INSISTING it's a sport (or not a sport). I just happen to think one way and if others think another way, no sleep lost on my part. That's all.

The reason is probably that if it isn't a sport, it doesn't rightfully belong in the Olympics. Also, people who say it's not a sport almost never mean that as a compliment. So, there is an issue of respect for figure skating going on, at least between the lines.

 

[Mathman]

To expand on what SusanBeth said, I would go back to Antman's post.

The mentality that says figure skating is not a sport often goes on the the corollary, figure skating is a sissy activity and little boys that do it deserve to be beat up after school every day.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think Equestrian Sports are not gender conscious. Boys and Girls ride for the same medals.

As for Sports. A contest is for competitors and a Sport event is for athletes is nothing more than SEMANTICS

And can one really believe that figure skaters are NOT athletes? duh.

If one has ever been in a business deal one will hear the word SPORT quite often after a compromise.

I think posters reinforcing their opinions on a topic over and over and over again is a sport.

Joe

 

[ladysarahchatto]

I think that when the writer admitted that figure skaters are athletes, he shot himself in the foot.

Football REQUIRES athletes in order to be played at the highest levels.
Tennis REQUIRES athletes in order to be played at the highest levels.
Baseball REQUIRES athletes in order to be played at the highest levels.

Figure Skating REQUIRES athletes in order to be done at the highest levels.

The writer said figure skaters are athletes. It goes back to that old axiom all of us learn in school - Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.

Quality-level athletic activities require quality-level athletes. Therefore, football, tennis, baseball, figure skating, and many other athletic activities - they ALL are sports.

ITA.

One of the meanings of the word 'sport' is to engage in activity. That could mean ice skating, poker, bingo, bowling, football, etc. Or to sport with some one-have fun with them-or at their expense.