Why is flexibility so appreciated?

[Mathman]

Those are three gorgeous positions. I don't see how anyone can object to the term "flexible." If flexible means bendy, look how much their backs are bent backward at the lower spine.

To me, it seems like Sasha's position in these pictures is harder. She not only bends backward but also twists. (Or is she cheating the position, compared to Mirai?)

Look how muscular Sasha's back is!)

 

[janetfan]

Here is a link to one of the lesser known devices invented by Mischin
to help Plushy develope his flexibility

.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bitshaker/167481938/

 

[MKFSfan]

Not sure which is harder. I would think twisting sideways to pull the leg up might be a bit simpler than laying way back. I think Mirai and Caroline actually have a deeper back bend, while Sasha has a more open hip angle. I like how Sasha's forearm is parallel to her free leg, while most seem to do this position with elbow up, forearm perpendicular to ice. NO idea if one is easier/harder, or just a matter of preference. Seems like it would be harder to pull leg up with elbow down unless you are in a sideways lean. Either way, those positions require a very flexible back and open hip angle! I think the picture of Caroline's haircutter is a bit late and that she's transitioning into her beillmann. Mirai I think has one of the nicest haircutters around.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The position in the layback spin when the skater brings free foot to their head.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/ap/3c886ac8-cb35-4e70-8e9b-9c3da1dbd8d8.widec.jpg
http://www.skateygirl.com/nat2007/jrladies_s/zhang/images/1-21-07 198_jpg.jpg
http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060114/060114_cohen_vmed2_8p.widec.jpg

An excellent display of Acrobatic positions. Tbere had to be a lot of backbend practices and stretches to get them. Should get lots of points for those tricks.

 

[Mathman]

Here is a link to one of the lesser known devices invented by Mischin to help Plushy develope his flexibility.

.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bitshaker/167481938/

“No, no, Gumby – like this!”

Gumby

Irina Grigorean

 

[Mathman]

An excellent display of Acrobatic positions. Tbere had to be a lot of backbend practices and stretches to get them. Should get lots of points for those tricks.

Yes, they certainly do. Just like they get lots of points for other tricks that they practiced hard for, like triple Salchows.

It is all part of the "balanced program" idea of the IJS. It's not just jumping tricks, it's tricks of all kinds that rack up the points.

At Four Continents, Caroline Zhang scored 4.0 points (same as a triple toe) for her level four layback spin and 4.10 points for her level four combintion spin, including GOE.

At the World Team Trophy she scored 4.20 and 4.50 (same as a triple Salchow) for the same two elements.

If Sasha comes back, these "acrobatic bonus points" will be a big help against the triple-triple girls. :yes:

 

[Alicja]

It's interesting that seemingly nobody really knows why they find flexibility this fascinating. Maybe someone else will try?
Many of the examples of flexible skaters are very impressive and fascinating. I've never managed anything more than a simple split, especially my back isn't very flexible at all. I sort of admire people who can do that crazy stuff.
Anyways, I'm still trying to figure out why so many people love above-average flexibility in figure skating a la Sasha Cohen or Caro Z. I want to clarify here that I realize that a certain extent of flexibility is required to hit aesthetic positions in spirals. But to me flexibility above that necessary range doesn't necessarily make a skater more exciting or more interesting, aside from the wow-factor the first time you see a move.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
I think flexibility (which every athlete has) or they wouldn't be athletes, is extraordinary for those fans who do not watch Cirque du Soleil and who never took an acrobatic class as a co-training method to improve their figure skating tricks. Acrobatic classes are a must in this era of competitions. Be assured that Acrobatics on Ice will garner high GoEs if done well (and also in the PC scoring.)

(and btw, taking acrobatic classes will get you quite a bit of ballet positions but only the classical positions and all are used by muscle power - no dragging your foot up above your head.

Get thee to a tough acrobatic teacher, Ladies!!! :agree:

 

[Mathman]

I think people like to see great extention and better than average flexibility in spirals and spins for the same reason that they like to see triple jumps more so than double jumps. Higher, faster, stronger.

 

[seniorita]

thats funny.. cause i ve seen cirque du soleil about 3- 4 times, and i have been to acrobatic lessons, (they were not called acrobatic though and not for fs but another sport) but i m always amazed with sasha's flexibility or carolin's layback cause it is not what a normal training can teach you!And it is different to watch it in a circus show than an actual competition. And more interesting than rhythmic gymnastics' flexibility cause it includes skating at the same time.
It is amazing for most people, cause the ones who havent tried to bring their foot to their ear they look it as super wow(i cant think of a decent word now), and the ones who have tried know how it is to bring it upthere (and keep it) and are amazed by their easiness to do so on ice.

 

[KayMil01]

deleted

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Extensions are not the same as Super Flexibility (to use the FS definition). A beautiful extension such as in a spiral with changes of edging does not need to be in the 180 degree position. It's a beautiful move of body to skate, and because there is muscle involved, no hands are needed.

Come to think of it, I never saw a 180 degree spiral changing edges. If there is one on youtube, please give link.

 

[mskater93]

180 degree change of edge spiral - see Shizuka's Olympic performance in statue of Liberty position (it maky have only been 165 degrees , but still!), Czisny's COE Charlotte spiral from Nationals, Zhang's COE spiral before she goes for the foot grab, and Sasha's COE spiral circa 2006 (she may have only been @ 160 degrees, though )

 

[HCOSurfer]

Come to think of it, I never saw a 180 degree spiral changing edges. If there is one on youtube, please give link.

1:45-1:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4whtBGdapY

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

1:45-1:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4whtBGdapY

Thank you for the link, HCO - Mea Culpa. Zhang can and does change edge in Charlotte Spiral. That SP is so endearing of her. Can we just call her Queen of the Flexiility Elements? I would not object.

btw - Will we ever see a Charlotte Spin?

 

[MKFSfan]

If any singles lady can do a charlotte spin, my bet is it would be Caroline or Alissa! It's been done in pairs, so I'm sure someone, somewhere has at least tried to.

 

[Ladskater]

As I noticed around various skating boards, flexibility in spirals and spins for many people is one of the most appealing factors they're looking for in a skater. I'm curious to know why.
Of course, a split spiral or something like Caroline's pearl spin is a real 'wow' factor. It's certainly amazing but not really a quality I'm primarily looking for when watching figure skating. For great extensions, perfectly pointed feet I'm going to watch ballet (this is of course important in skating too, but for me only to a certain extent) and for crazy flexibility I'd watch rhythmic gymnastics. So, overall, while I sometimes appreciate it, it's not a necessary or perferable quality to me.

So to all the flexibility lovers out there, what is it that makes it so exciting and essential for you?

It's a no brainer...Figure Skating involves flexiblity. Those skaters who are gifted - like Sasha Cohen for example with natural flexibility have the edge over other skaters who have to work on their flexibilty to perfect a move. It just adds to the overall look of the move and improves the skaters posture and poise.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's a no brainer...Figure Skating involves flexiblity. Those skaters who are gifted - like Sasha Cohen for example with natural flexibility have the edge over other skaters who have to work on their flexibilty to perfect a move. It just adds to the overall look of the move and improves the skaters posture and poise.

All sports people and people not in sports have flexibility or they are in rehab.

What I am saying is that some skaters are more able to bend their body parts better than other skaters. Some of those tricks are quite exciting but I would be hesitant in saying they are beautiful. JMO.

 

[MKFSfan]

Just out of curiousity, Joe, which very flexible positions that ice skater hits well do you find ugly? We may be on a similar thought-I personally have no use for I-spins/spirals and fan-spirals, even when the skater has more flexibility than the average person:
http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0103/d9148b6cd67047ebad5a0d74a783a4c1.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02eI4o4ekxat2/340x.jpg
...but I will also say I think when those positions are fully stretched out well, it's amazing to see, I just not necessarily think,"Oh, that's beautiful!"

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just out of curiousity, Joe, which very flexible positions that ice skater hits well do you find ugly? We may be on a similar thought-I personally have no use for I-spins/spirals and fan-spirals, even when the skater has more flexibility than the average person:
http://media.twango.com/m1/original/0103/d9148b6cd67047ebad5a0d74a783a4c1.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02eI4o4ekxat2/340x.jpg
...but I will also say I think when those positions are fully stretched out well, it's amazing to see, I just not necessarily think,"Oh, that's beautiful!"

MKFSfan - I didn't say ugly. I did say exciting like in Cirque du Soleil and Gymnastics and in FS, I would consider anything that doesn't require a helping hand but just plain old muscle. The I spin for me, is just too many body parts involved.

We agree. If the I spin could go up to high heaven without a two hand assist, I could appreciate the ability of the skate's acrobatics. Not sure, though if I would consider it beautiful since it's only a position reserved for some competitors and doesn't say much about ice to skate.

Spirals and Camels at 145 degrees are beautiful and can be exciting with the right music. That's what skating is to me. I'm not in favore of more acrobatics in figure skating, I get enough of that in Pairs.