Why is flexibility so appreciated?

[Mathman]

All sports people and people not in sports have flexibility or they are in rehab.

I don't think "flexibility" has to be an either/or proposition (either you can bend or you can't). It can also be comparative.

To me, there is a spectrum: inflexible, limited flexibility, normal flexibility, superior flexibilty, freakish flexibility. A 145 degree change of edge spiral displays greater flexibility than a 90 degree change of edge spiral does.

Average flexibility – what I can do (except for the skating part)

He’s trying!

Superior flexibility – the average person can’t do this.

Hand assisted (sort of).

Hand assisted for real. If you don’t stop doing that, young lady, your legs are going to lock in that position and you’ll never walk again!

And the winner:

NATHAN CHEN

Spirals and Camels at 145 degrees are beautiful and can be exciting with the right music.

Have you ever seen a 145 degree camel spin?

http://www.dmfsc.com/Skills/CamelSpin.jpg

http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/reports/2002-mids/bradley-2.jpg

 

[gkelly]

Have you ever seen a 145 degree camel spin?

Only with hand assist of some kind.

E.g., the end of the combo spin here, about 1:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsQEzXT6xA

 

[Pikachuusb]

I believe Ive seen Shawn Sawyer & Rohene Ward do that as well.

Thank you for the link to Toller Cranston that was a wonderful program. Ive heard soo many wonderful things about his skating but have never watched any of his videos. I will have to watch more in the future :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Only with hand assist of some kind.

E.g., the end of the combo spin here, about 1:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsQEzXT6xA

It seemed to me that Toller did an Attitude posiition Nothing wrong with that.

MM. We have to agree not to agree on the I spin. If you think grabbing your foot with two hands and dragging the foot over your head is beautiful, that is your taste, not mine. I'm not saying it should not be judged in competitions but it is an advantage for skaters who could do this before they took up skating.

I'm not sure if calling what I consider a beautiful camel is 45 degrees. My vectors were never precise. But if a skater can get the free leg between even with the ice and the 180 degree one, by half way, that is the most imposing level for judging. And btw, it can be used in bravura or lyrical skating and with meaning. (defiant or inspirational)

Butryskaya came close to that if not totally.

 

[Mathman]

MM. We have to agree not to agree on the I spin.

The I spin? Did I say anything about the I spin? :scratch:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The I spin? Did I say anything about the I spin? :scratch:

Can you show me a pic or youtube of an I spiral (for want of a better term) not spinning? Maybe in Gymnastics with a kick upwards and down but not an extension and held.

 

[Spun Silver]

See above in this thread. I posted a pic of Sasha's I, which MKFSfan noted is a spiral, not a spin.

 

[seniorita]

Can you show me a pic or youtube of an I spiral (for want of a better term) not spinning? Maybe in Gymnastics with a kick upwards and down but not an extension and held.

i m not sure i understood, you mean not spinning and without support? In gymnastics you have positions I&Y (they are not called like this though) that you hold your position and without help, with support of the hand you also turn around like spinning. In Y position you can spin without support of hand. Not just kick up to your head.
1
2
3
4 maybe this is closer to Y
if i didnt understand the question i m sorry

 

[MKFSfan]

Can you show me a pic or youtube of an I spiral (for want of a better term) not spinning? Maybe in Gymnastics with a kick upwards and down but not an extension and held.

Are you talking about "I" position spirals that don't have a hand hold? I don;t think I've ever seen one in an "I". Shizuka, Mirai and a few others do a "Y" release move. Many skaters do a "I" spiral in the side catch position. Not sure about a front catch "I" spiral.

"I" spiral: http://www.skateygirl.com/nat2006/srladies/czisny/free/images/2006-01-12 221_jpg.jpg

Front catch spin: http://www.cs.kent.edu/~walker/photos/02-01-06_LASkating/Images/photo291.jpg

Nobody does this side catch "Y" spin better than Alissa: http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/06skatecan-jbm/CZISNY20618562.jpg

 

[seniorita]

"I" spiral: http://www.skateygirl.com/nat2006/srladies/czisny/free/images/2006-01-12 221_jpg.jpg

why is this called I spin

Nobody does this side catch "Y" spin better than Alissa: http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/06skatecan-jbm/CZISNY20618562.jpg

while this Y spin?
i thought for I spin your foot has to be stretched in front of you not on your side.
I m confused again.

 

[Mathman]

i thought for I spin your foot has to be stretched in front of you not on your side.

Classically (that is, going all the way back to 2003 ) I think that's right.

The classic I-spin.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Sasha_Cohen_2.jpg

The classic Y-spin. (Rudy Galindo By the way, Rudy got in trouble with the USFSA for doing this move. Only ladies are supposed to pose for crotch shots.)

http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/06coi-everett/IMG_3215.jpg

But now everyone is coming up with their own variations. I don't know what to call Alissa's spiral , posted by MKFSfan.

http://www.skateygirl.com/nat2006/srladies/czisny/free/images/2006-01-12 221_jpg.jpg

First, it's a spiral, not a spin. If she were holding her leg with the other hand it would by a Y-spiral. With that cross-hand catch with her leg behind her right shoulder -- I don't know what to call it, but it's pretty cool.

 

[Medusa]

The classic Y-spin. (Rudy Galindo By the way, Rudy got in trouble with the USFSA for doing this move. Only ladies are supposed to pose for crotch shots.)

That was a joke, right?

 

[Mathman]

That was a joke, right?

I wish.

Galindo was the first openly gay US figure skater. He was roundly criticised for including "feminine" moves in his skating. He felt that the US Figure Skating Association never gave him his due, for this reason.

The last straw was being virtually ignored as the U.S. champion in 1996 (he was not invited to Skate America, etc.)

But he got his revenge with his signature professional program, YMCA -- the rockingest, rollingest show program EVAH!

 

[gkelly]

being virtually ignored as the U.S. champion in 1996 (he was not invited to Skate America, etc.)

Of course, Jeremy Abbott was not invited to Skate America in 2009 for the exact same reason, for whatever that's worth.

 

[seniorita]

If she were holding her leg with the other hand it would by a Y-spiral. With that cross-hand catch with her leg behind her right shoulder -- I don't know what to call it, but it's pretty cool.

i thought it might had something with the supporting hand, but up until now i thought the name was given according to where your leg is up and toe is pointing.
I havent seen much of Galindo, and i searched a bit youtube for this program you said, but i didnt find it, i saw a very nice swan lake though..

 

[snowflake]

Of course, Jeremy Abbott was not invited to Skate America in 2009 for the exact same reason, for whatever that's worth.

What do you mean? That "He was roundly criticised for including "feminine" moves in his skating." ...or that he is openly gay?

 

[Mathman]

I havent seen much of Galindo, and i searched a bit youtube for this program you said, but i didnt find it, i saw a very nice swan lake though..

I couldn't find it either. It should be called "Village People" or "YMCA," and he performed it on COI off and on for many years. "Send in the Clowns" is another good one.

Galindo had a really hard life and overcame many obstacles finally to become a successful skater/entertainer.

Edited to add: There might be a copyright problem involving the music. I did find Send in the Clowns, but it is picture only. The audio was disabled because of copyright.

What do you mean? That "He was roundly criticised for including "feminine" moves in his skating." ...or that he is openly gay?

What GKelly is referring to above is that Galindo, in 1996, and Jeremy Abbott this year both were left off the Skate America roster even though they were U.S. champion, to make room for the World Champion (Todd Eldredge in 1996 and Evan lysacek in 2009.)

They could, however, have invited both Galindo and Eldredge, and both Lysacek and Abbott, if they had wanted to.

 

[seniorita]

i just found itbut it is not youtube link so i have no idea if it is appropriate to post it, if not please tell me ! http://www.mediafire.com/?3lnncuzwmlm
wow i say!so this is the one program he is dressed like a sailor, i have watched only pics by now!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Galindo was the first openly gay US figure skater. He was roundly criticised for including "feminine" moves in his skating. He felt that the US Figure Skating Association never gave him his due, for this reason.

Define "feminine" moves? Would Mao's 3A be kind of masculine-like?

The last straw was being virtually ignored as the U.S. champion in 1996 (he was not invited to Skate America, etc.)

So what? What is it about SA that makes it such a Special GP event?

 

[MKFSfan]

why is this called I spin


while this Y spin?
i thought for I spin your foot has to be stretched in front of you not on your side.
I m confused again.

Mathman already explained, and I agree with his explanation! I think because Alissa has her free foot perpendicular to the ice, fans call it an "I" and when skate is pointed up, call it a "Y." I think the technical term for both is side catch spin/spiral.

For comparison sake, here's Sasha's:

"I" spin: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Sasha_Cohen_2.jpg
"I" spiral: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/cityofate/Sasha On Ice 2009.jpg
"Y" spin: http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2006nationals/long-ap4.jpg
"Y" spiral: http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2004nationals/long-4.jpg
Front catch: http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2002olympics/short/short-ap-5.jpg

This is fun!!