Women and the triple Axel

[drivingmissdaisy]

I see no reason to discourage the 2A+3T combo.

But 3-3 combos should be rewarded even more.

Which they are in the short program, i.e., by being allowed there at all.

Discouraging one thing and encouraging something else is the same difference to me. Evgenia, for example, is better off doing the 3F-3T in the SP but worse off doing the same move in the LP (relative to the 2A-3T). A 3-3 earning more points or a 2A-3T earning fewer each discourage the decision to do the latter in the LP.

 

[gkelly]

But for skaters who can't do triple triples at all or who don't have enough different triples to fill seven jump passes, why discourage them from showing what might be their hardest element?

Or, alternatively, for skaters who do Euler into sal or lip after a triple, and/or triple loop after a triple, why discourage them from pairing the only triple toe with a double axel? Would you rather see triple toe solo and double axel double to, or vice versa?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Would you rather see triple toe solo and double axel double to, or vice versa?

No, I'd rather have skaters who can do 3-3s not need to do the 2A-3T just to maximize points. I'd like to see fewer 2A-3T combos from skaters who can do more difficulty, and have the scoring system reward that difficulty rather than penalizing it.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

3A+1Eu+3S by Rika Kihira
https://twitter.com/FSIgstories/status/1191723708941062144?s=20

 

[skatenewbie]

Rika has yet to land 3A+3T in competition this season, I guess she can replace it with 3A+1Eu+3S? She can put that 3T after 3F/3Lz in 2nd half and get higher base value as well

 

[Mishaminion]

Looks good in practice but we will see if she brings it to competition or not

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Looks good in practice but we will see if she brings it to competition or not

Probably depends on her ankle and if she can put the 3Lz back in.

 

[Mishaminion]

Probably depends on her ankle and if she can put the 3Lz back in.

Personally I would say it's the Lutz that is more important than new 3A combos. Like another poster said she hasn't managed to land her 3A-3T either so far
She will have a hard time gathering enough points without her Lutz against the 3 Eteri wonders, who have quads or 3A plus 3Lz

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Personally I would say it's the Lutz that is more important than new 3A combos. Like another poster said she hasn't managed to land her 3A-3T either so far
She will have a hard time gathering enough points without her Lutz against the 3 Eteri wonders, who have quads or 3A plus 3Lz

"Hasn't managed"?? Her 3A+2Ts were all planned this season and not popped triples. She hasn't put the 3A+3T combo in because she puts her 3+3 combo in the second half in order to gain more points by backloading two of her combos. Without the 3Lz she also cannot do two 3+3 combos without Zayaking and has to do a 3+2 and 2A+2+2 combo and can only do one 3+3 combo. It doesn't make sense doing a 3A+3T currently as it brings her less points than backloading her 3F+3T combo, it hasn't anything to do with her not being able to do a 3A+3T combo. She is simply doing smart math right now.

 

[SkateSkates]

With this new combo and assuming she gets her lutz back she can up her BV significantly. Her LP can look something like this:

3A+Eu+3S
3A
3F
2A
3F+3T (or 3Lz+3T)
3Lz+2T
3Lo

This puts her back on par with Aliona.

 

[Arbitrary]

With this new combo and assuming she gets her lutz back she can up her BV significantly. Her LP can look something like this:

3A+Eu+3S
3A
3F
2A
3F+3T (or 3Lz+3T)
3Lz+2T
3Lo

This puts her back on par with Aliona.

Why does she need 2A? Just add another 3Lz... be first to get rid of 2X jumps totally.

 

[Ziotic]

Why does she need 2A? Just add another 3Lz... be first to get rid of 2X jumps totally.

She would then be repeating 3 different triples which isn’t allowed.

 

[ruga]

Why does she need 2A? Just add another 3Lz... be first to get rid of 2X jumps totally.

With SkateSkates' layout she is already repeating 2 triples (F/Lz and A), so she can't replace 2A with another triple. Also, I don't know if 3A+eu+3Sal really benefits her. 3A-2T, 3A, 3F, 2A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+eu+3S, 3Lo would bring her more points due to backloaded combos, assuming she is capable of adding them in the second half.

 

[Arbitrary]

Ok, I miscalculated with repeated.
Just uplift one to a quad...

Oh, we do need more kinds of a jump.
Please ISU, add some triple Walley or qualify the Dmitriev's lutz as a new kind of jump, Ld.

 

[Mishaminion]

"Hasn't managed"?? Her 3A+2Ts were all planned this season and not popped triples. She hasn't put the 3A+3T combo in because she puts her 3+3 combo in the second half in order to gain more points by backloading two of her combos. Without the 3Lz she also cannot do two 3+3 combos without Zayaking and has to do a 3+2 and 2A+2+2 combo and can only do one 3+3 combo. It doesn't make sense doing a 3A+3T currently as it brings her less points than backloading her 3F+3T combo, it hasn't anything to do with her not being able to do a 3A+3T combo. She is simply doing smart math right now.

Oh.

I assumed the 3A-3T was planned content based on last season. Oops

Still, getting her 3Lz back is important

 

[jenm]

3A+1Eu+3S by Rika Kihira
https://twitter.com/FSIgstories/status/1191723708941062144?s=20

I'm amazed with how little preparation she did for that combo. and the distance is

 

[lzxnl]

There is another reason I can think of as to why Rika is training a 3A-Eu-3S, and I always thought she might.

This season, her maximal possible (feasible) layout is
4S
3A+2T
3A
3F
3Lz+3T
3Lz+Eu+3S
3Lo

Technically, it's probably a better idea to put that 3F last instead of the 3Lo as her 3Lo has caused a few problems while her 3F hasn't, but anyway that's not a big deal. The question is, what can she do next season? Once she puts the 4T into her program, we'll have

4S
4T
3A+?
3A
3F
3Lz+?
3Lz+?

One option is to do two 3Ts instead of two 3Lzs, which isn't that great points-wise but avoids the issue of having a loop combo (she's done them before). This option would leave

4S
4T
3A+3T
3A
3Lo
3F+3T
3Lz+Eu+3S

However, what happens, come Olympic season, when Rika wants to try another quad? Suppose her 4S is more stable than her 4T, which seems to be the case as she isn't doing a 4T this season. If she wants to do two 4Ts and two 3As, she runs into obvious problems with her combinations; what to do about the extra 3T? So, I propose the following layout instead.

4S
4T
3A+3T
3A
3F/Lz+3Lo
3Lz/F
3Lz+Eu+3S

depending on which 3Lo combo she likes more (she's done both before, but I reckon her 3F combos are better than her 3Lz ones)

This gives, for Olympic season,
4S/T+?
4T
4S
3A+?
3A
3F
3Lz+?

And now we have another problem. I strongly doubt Rika will do a 4S+Eu+3S, and definitely not a 4S+3Lo, so she's probably going to go for a 4S+3T. She's also not going to do 3A+3Lo, which means she has to do 3A+Eu+3S. That finally leaves

4S/T+3T
4S
4T
3A+Eu+3S
3A
3F/Lz
3Lz/F+3Lo

The only way she could improve on this is do a different quad, which I doubt is happening. I don't know if she gets enough spring to do any other quad, but I may be wrong.

Anyway, I feel like Mie Hamada is looking ahead enough and recognising that Rika will need this combination down the track, and it's great for strengthening her 3A anyway.

 

[readernick]

Oh.

I assumed the 3A-3T was planned content based on last season. Oops

Still, getting her 3Lz back is important

Yes, she needs her 3lz but not at the expense of her long term health. It is very wise of her to avoid the jump until her ankle heals fully.

 

[readernick]

There is another reason I can think of as to why Rika is training a 3A-Eu-3S, and I always thought she might.

This season, her maximal possible (feasible) layout is
4S
3A+2T
3A
3F
3Lz+3T
3Lz+Eu+3S
3Lo

Technically, it's probably a better idea to put that 3F last instead of the 3Lo as her 3Lo has caused a few problems while her 3F hasn't, but anyway that's not a big deal. The question is, what can she do next season? Once she puts the 4T into her program, we'll have

4S
4T
3A+?
3A
3F
3Lz+?
3Lz+?

One option is to do two 3Ts instead of two 3Lzs, which isn't that great points-wise but avoids the issue of having a loop combo (she's done them before). This option would leave

4S
4T
3A+3T
3A
3Lo
3F+3T
3Lz+Eu+3S

However, what happens, come Olympic season, when Rika wants to try another quad? Suppose her 4S is more stable than her 4T, which seems to be the case as she isn't doing a 4T this season. If she wants to do two 4Ts and two 3As, she runs into obvious problems with her combinations; what to do about the extra 3T? So, I propose the following layout instead.

4S
4T
3A+3T
3A
3F/Lz+3Lo
3Lz/F
3Lz+Eu+3S

depending on which 3Lo combo she likes more (she's done both before, but I reckon her 3F combos are better than her 3Lz ones)

This gives, for Olympic season,
4S/T+?
4T
4S
3A+?
3A
3F
3Lz+?

And now we have another problem. I strongly doubt Rika will do a 4S+Eu+3S, and definitely not a 4S+3Lo, so she's probably going to go for a 4S+3T. She's also not going to do 3A+3Lo, which means she has to do 3A+Eu+3S. That finally leaves

4S/T+3T
4S
4T
3A+Eu+3S
3A
3F/Lz
3Lz/F+3Lo

The only way she could improve on this is do a different quad, which I doubt is happening. I don't know if she gets enough spring to do any other quad, but I may be wrong.

Anyway, I feel like Mie Hamada is looking ahead enough and recognising that Rika will need this combination down the track, and it's great for strengthening her 3A anyway.

That's some serious analysis. But, it is also correct. She is going to need both 3lz3lo and 3AeurS combos if she adds another quad. It is smart to practice now.

 

[moriel]

It sounds like a bad idea to practice a combo that she will need if she adds a second quad while she has none yet.