Yagudin Requests Alcohol Rehabilitation Program

[WhiteNights]

Yags

I promised myself over a month ago I wasn't going to get dragged into this fray...but...I must comment on two things:

First, as a Native American I take great offense to your line that "virtually all native americans" have alcohol problems - that's patently ridiculous. Do NA's have a greater propensity towards alcoholism than the general population? Yes. But not all are drinkers, and certainly not all are alcoholics.

Secondly.....and this has been so misunderstood - Yags is NOT going into rehab. This is a program that the Connecticut court offers ALL first time offenders - and if they are approved after a consultation - then they go to some counseling and classes. It is not a rehab program for alcoholics, it's an EDUCATION program - that's all - and he's entering it because if you successfully complete it, the DUI is erased off your permanent driving record. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with admitting to a problem, alcohol related or otherwise. It's simply a course of action that most attornetys, most likely including his, suggest in this situation.

ARGHHHHH!!!!! C'mon people - at least TRY and get the facts straight. Rant off.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

WhiteNights - I agree, citing ethnicity for addiction is in bad taste. Native American have had a rough time in this country without putting stigma on them.

Joe

 

[Linny]

Clarification

Thank you, WhiteNights and others, for clarifying.

There are many "labels" that get thrown around and they are often difficult to understand.

An alcoholic
A drinking problem
Rehabilitation
Court Mandated Counseling

These are just a few of them.

There's also no easy way to draw boxes around them. Is a person with a drinking problem necessarily an alcoholic? Don't know. Guess it's highly individual.

What's interesting to me is that we are skipping over the part of the arrest report indicating that the driver was traveling at a high rate of speed. Speeding is also illegal. And dangerous.

Yags has spoken quite candidly about his love of fast driving. He's also got an entire skating program based on racing. Perhaps this is also a type of addiction? Maybe he needs to feed his addiction by taking race lessons at a race track? Or by playing one of those really sophisticated video machines?

Linny

 

[Panther2000]

YOu GET A MAJOR HAND WHITNIGHTS

myself having Native American on both my mothers & fathers side, though I still consider myself Black. I take offense to steryotypes by people who know nothing of the Culture & just goes by what bigots & the media proclaim. Ok now, with that said. Back on topic. Do I belive that alexei has a problem. NO!!!!!. This program I agree with the board here ( with the exception of 1 or two people). This is an educational program for 1st time offeners where there was no REAL damage ( Not rehab). Unlike others THANK THE LORD. He did not crash or hurt himself or others. I think that it is a good thing for him to take the program realize what COULD HAVE HAPPEN & move on with his life. As an adult who herself when I go out with my husband or freinds will have a few martinis or glasses of wine. There is nothing wrong with have drinks with friends. However, I never drive when I do. I usually bum a ride from someone. That was alexei's mistake. He couldn't leave his car there( I wouldn't, not that kind of car) But, maybe all two friends to help him out. I don't know. I am just happy to hear that he is doing what is required so he an to get back to what is really important to him. Making sure that hip is healed & getting back on the ice.

 

[Mathman]

WhiteNights, I feel the same way. I was determined not to comment on this story, too. In my case, I didn't want to say anything negative that might end up hurting the feelings of the many Alexei fans on this board.

I agree with both of your points. I am sure that what Rgirl meant was that the introduction of alcohol into the American nations, along with other Eurpean gifts such as smallpox and tuberculosis, had a devestating effect on those cultures.

But about Alexei, he does not deserve either praise or blame for applying for the mildest possible punishment for this offense. The alternative was jail time and a permanent blot on his legal record.

I suppose it is natural that our interest is piqued by rogues and "bad boys." We do seem to like a little "street" in our young people, especially men. But by the same token, I greatly admire those precious few athletes, entertainers and celebrities who take seriously their responsibilities as role models for young people. When a great skater lives his or her whole life in a goldfish bowl of public scrutiny, yet maintains a sense of security in his/her own moral core -- well, I guess that's "boring." But I take my hat off to her, even so.

Mathman

 

[curious]

like you said mathman,people don't like good boys or girls

 

[WhiteNights]

Yags

Thanks guys! I've cooled down now, LOL.
And Mathman, I couldn't agree with you more. As someone who knows some of these skaters, what is so important for me to remember - hello...think Kobe....think OJ....think Rush Limbaugh if you want to....sports heros/celebrities are just people - they just happen to be really, really fantastic at one particular thing - in this case, skating.

But that's it. Otherwise, they're just as screwed up, wonderful, heroic, disgusting...take your pick of adjectives...as the person sitting in the cubicle next to you, or across the street, or lying next to you in bed when you go to sleep at night.

If you're going to love them, then love them for their performances and abilities - but how many more sports heros need to fall from grace before people get with reality and realize they aren't "heros" - heros are the guys who rushed into the world trade center to save strangers and died in the process. Heros are the cops and highway patrolmen who will die in the line of duty this month - protecting our sorry asses - for no money, leaving their wives widows, and their children fatherless.
And that's just a small example of the real heros.

Love your athletes - your skaters - your celeb's - for the entertainment joy they bring you. If you get the opportunity to become friends with them, then love them for whatever personality feature about them you enjoy. But don't for god's sake enshrine them on a high pedastal from which many are most certainly going to take a swan dive.

It would be great for this DUI talk, now that it's been over five weeks, to maybe shift into talking about Alexei's amazing performances over the weekend. He's back!!!

Okay.....preach off, LOL.

 

[Rgirl]

WhiteNights, Panther, and to anyone else who was offended by the wording in my post on Yagudin:
Of course you are right that I should have been much more careful in how I used Native Americans as one of many groups with a genetic propensity towards alcoholism rather than the words I originally used. I knew when I wrote the post it would probably generate a hot debate, but I certainly never meant to stigmatize any group. I've edited the parts mentioned and noted where I made edits. Mathman is correct that my intent was to say that "the introduction of alcohol into the American nations, along with other Eurpean gifts such as smallpox and tuberculosis, had a devestating effect on those cultures." Wish I had used Mathman's words, but 20/20 hindsight...

I do hope, however, that you will reread my post (believe it or not, it's one of my shorter ones, lol) and try to see that my main point is I do not think anyone with an alcohol problem should be stigmatized.

As for whether we should call Yags's program education, counseling, rehab, or whatever, I think no matter what you call it, Yags's program amounts to the same thing: Getting help with a problem early. I don't even care what his motives are. The important thing to me is that he is addressing the problem.

I'm sorry that my choice of words offended you or anyone else. It was never my intention to stigmatize anyone. In fact my intent was the opposite, to promote DEstigmatization of people with alcohol problems. But you are correct that I needed to state things more carefully when I cited Native Americans as examples. Twenty years ago, I had a lot of experience with Native Alaskans and the alcohol problems they faced, many of which were made worse by government policies intended to be helpful. So that's why Native Americans came to mind. And I do understand your point about language. I get angry too when I see people do the same thing I did, though using different examples for different topics. However I appreciate Linny's point that many of these labels are fuzzy, their meanings are often difficult to define, and they tend to overlap.

I hope we understand each other better now, even if we still disagree on some points.

No hard feelings, I hope.
Rgirl

 

[windspirit]

Re: Yags

It would be great for this DUI talk, now that it's been over five weeks, to maybe shift into talking about Alexei's amazing performances over the weekend. He's back!!!

Were you there? That second program (to Nyman's Memorial? -- I'm still not sure) was something else, wasn't it? http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/windspirit6/sm/cloud9.gif Btw, welcome to Golden Skate!

Rgirl, thank you for editing your post. I too thought that some things in it were painted with too wide a brush. I even thought that maybe someone had kidnapped you. http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/windspirit6/sm/cry.gif But of course I know how it is when something comes out not exactly like you wanted it to, which certainly happens more often to me, than to you. Especially when I'm tired.

 

[Rgirl]

Thanks, Windspirit. I originally wrote that post at 1:53am. Tired is right. Lesson learned. The hard way, as usual

And welcome to GS, WhiteNights. And a memorable welcome it has been--in a positive way
Rgirl

 

[Germanice]

It would be great for this DUI talk, now that it's been over five weeks, to maybe shift into talking about Alexei's amazing performances over the weekend. He's back!!!

WhiteNights, Windspirit, since it seems you were there, why don't you tell me/us something about his performances in Simsbury? So far I've heard contradictory things about it ... the girls a the AYDG were impressed, naturally, but on FSU I've also read the word "depressing" ... PLEASE! let me know! Thank you!

As for the DUI thing, I've already made my comment a few weeks ago (and one can tell I wasn't glad at all about this accident!) but, frankly, now the subject is getting tiring. Just give him a break and let him do this alcohol "education" program. Period.

Anke

 

[windspirit]

WhiteNights, Windspirit, since it seems you were there, why don't you tell me/us something about his performances in Simsbury? So far I've heard contradictory things about it ... the girls a the AYDG were impressed, naturally, but on FSU I've also read the word "depressing" ... PLEASE! let me know! Thank you!

Anke, Alexei skated three programs in Simsbury: the first one was to 'Feelings', and I wasn't impressed by it. He almost fell on one of the jumps, and might've had some other problems. Maybe he wasn't warmed up yet, but I also think that his hip is still bothering him. It's never going to be as healthy as it was before. Anyway, I don't think he was happy with himself after that skate, but after the break he was ready. His second program was very interesting, but what I really loved was the way he skated it. It felt very personal, and the music was haunting. We watched it almost in a complete silence (I think I'm going through withdrawal already ). At the end he skated "Racing", and really got into it (even did a 3/3, I think), together with the audience. He seemed very happy with himself after, and he got a standing ovation.

OK, that was a short version, if you want to read a little more, here's my review:
http://pub116.ezboard.com/fplushroom1789frm11.showMessage?topicID=850.topic

 

[NansXOXOX]

Thanks for the link, Windspirit, I love reading your opinions and I think you may be a little more objective than some of the other reviews I've read, although they are all wonderful. It's nice to see things through many different eyes.

Do you think "Feelings" is just not finished, or is the music always going to be a problem with this program since it comes with so much "baggage" of it's own?

Nan

 

[Dee4707]

Whitenights, from one Native American to another, welcome to the board. I've enjoyed your posts.

Dee

 

[curious]

feelings coming with so much baggage because of what happened to him last year? alexei is a very emotional skater,he brings alot of emotional baggage to his programs.

 

[NansXOXOX]

feelings coming with so much baggage because of what happened to him last year? alexei is a very emotional skater,he brings alot of emotional baggage to his programs.

Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the song itself. It's been around so long, over played on the radio when it was new, and the subject of so many parodies, I was asking if Windspirit's less than enthusuastic opinion of Alexei's program was partly due to the song. I don't know if I can get past that myself.

Nan

 

[windspirit]

Do you think "Feelings" is just not finished, or is the music always going to be a problem with this program since it comes with so much "baggage" of it's own?

I think the music is to blame, because not only is it one of the most overplayed pieces of music, but it's also very simple (Carmen and Swan Lake may be overused, but in both cases the music is beautiful and complex) and the tempo hardly changes. It makes the program look bland; there's only so much you can come up with if you skate to something like this. Maybe I'll change my mind, but this is how I feel now.

His second program, on the other hand, was very special. I mentioned Mozart's Symphony No. 40 in my review, because some time ago my friend and I were wondering if Alexei was ready to skate to it. We've thought that only a mature and experienced skater could do it justice. Someone who's already been through some things in his life, and come face to face with his dark side (for lack of the word), etc. Alexei's program to Nyman's Memorial reminded me about the conversation, because it's very similar to what I had in mind. He didn't skate that program, he lived it. If there're moments when an artist becomes one with his art, it was one of them.

Edited to add: I have this piece of Whitman's poem in my ezboard profile; I just looked at it, and I think I've found the words that can describe Alexei's new program well:

I am the poet of the Body;
And I am the poet of the Soul.

The pleasures of heaven are with me, and the pains of hell are with me;
The first I graft and increase upon myself—the latter I translate into a new tongue.

 

[NansXOXOX]

This is beautiful:

I am the poet of the Body;
And I am the poet of the Soul.

The pleasures of heaven are with me, and the pains of hell are with me;
The first I graft and increase upon myself—the latter I translate into a new tongue.

Thank you, Windspirit, very much.

Nan

 

[WhiteNights]

Stuff

Thanks, Dee, Rgirl - and everybody else - nice to be here on Golden Skate.

A few thoughts: yes, "Feelings" does come with its own baggage, LOL. Alexei said to me last July he would be skating his LP to it and I winced a bit because I knew it was no longer a, shall we say, popular piece of music. But after hearing the arrangement, the idea seemed less risky - but it was TT's choice and selection.

I wasn't able to be in CT for the show but I look forward to seeing the new programs and am thrilled that he was so happy the way event turned out.

 

[Germanice]

Thanx a lot, Windspirit! For your review and mostly for the beautiful poem, that was really touching.

All in all it wasn't THAT *bad* - I've just found one "depressing" line in your review:

It's never going to be as healthy as it was before.

It's the kiss of death to all hopes and dreams of his European fans, since eligible competitve skating is almost the only way to watch figure skating on TV here! But I'm selfish. The guy himself comes first, of course!

So it seems to use the "Feelings" music wasn't such a good idea? Frankly - never liked that song, too mainstream/conventional and way too cheesy. On the other hand I've often changed my mind when watching Alexei skate to a piece kinda
- IMHO! - "lousy" music. So let's just wait and see ....

BTW, I've always wondered why he never tried a Blues? Slow, sad, emotional, erotical, it'd suit him perfectly!

Anke

PS: To all those who haven't seen pics of his new performances yet, just have a look here:
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4115663&a=30907406&f=0
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4047349&a=30908682&f=0&vt=vp&pw=