- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Me to. Even in 2001 when he lost to Plushenko (whose program was amazing).I can watch gladiator over and over again
Dee
Yagudin vs. Plushenko
- Thread starter demarinis5
- Start date
Dee
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Yeah when Yags had a major foot injury and struggled in all programs landing the jumps, and in the aftermath of the event Plushenko had to field questions what would have happened if Yags was healthy instead of only being asked about his great performances. Plushenko's only win over Yags in a global event was with Yags hurt.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Plush made several boo boos at DC Worlds (03). Tim was clean. In judging a style of skating, I would say Plush was bland and nervous and not using his show-off style. I was there and disappointed that he didn't show off. He skated very conservatively and not much more than bland.
Tim, who was always a type of bland skater with a big smile, was on that night, and imo, should have won.
China won the Pairs; Kwan won the Ladies; Canada won the Dance. Had not Plush's scores been inflated, there would have been no medal for Russia. Horrors!!!
Joe
Tim, who was always a type of bland skater with a big smile, was on that night, and imo, should have won.
China won the Pairs; Kwan won the Ladies; Canada won the Dance. Had not Plush's scores been inflated, there would have been no medal for Russia. Horrors!!!
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I agreed with the mens results of the 2003 Worlds. Goebel left out a quad and did not do 3 as usual, only did 2 quads that night, same as Plushenko did. Plushenko had 2 small errors on jumps, the same as Goebel. Goebel obviously has to do much more jump wise then Plushenko to even have a chance, that night he did basicaly the same. So no way he was going to win.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I agree with that. Plushenko was simply a much better overall skater than Tim, so Tim would have had to totally dominate on the jumps to have a chance at an upset.
Same with Sokolova against Kwan. Elena gave a fantastic performance, but Kwan was Kwan.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Sorry, we have to agree to disagree. Plush's small errors were out and out stumbles. He was not at his best THAT night from my first hand observation. I have no clue how it looked on TV.
Plush does have more better skates than Goebel, in general, but not that night. Plush was outright nervous. He was under pressure to win this to make up for the Olys. I judge each performance - not based on previous contests.
I am not a fan of Goebel and I would never mention anything he left out. That is his perogative. It's what any skater DOES in competition that matters. And, for me, more jumps doesn't make for a whole package of skating. THAT night was a surprise to me to see Goebel skate so well.
Joe
On tv, it looked like Plushy was not at his best - I remember thinking, wow Goebel was robbed and then wondering, well you never know - live he may have been slower or perhaps had scratchy blades or what not. I too was never a Tim fan, but I thought he won that night.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
You are entitled your opinon but if memory serves me correct what I recall is Plushenko's errors being three turns out of a quad-triple-double, and the end of a triple axel-triple flip sequence. Goebel's were two footing a quad toe, and putting both hands down on the final triple loop. So I dont see any big difference in errors based on that, both had 2 quads also, and also Plushenko had 1 more triple axel IIRC.
Goebel still has too many problems with posture, basic skating, speed of footwork to hope to beat Plushenko without a big jump edge on any night IMHO. Like you said we will have to agree to disagree.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
That was the decision. But I have my own criteria for skating.
SSF: btw Goebel does not STILL have too many problems. He retired.
Joe
You are insane! Tim doesn't know artistry if it hits him over the head. People simply don't win gold by relying on the technical aspect alone. If they did, it would be disastrous! Figure skating is about more than jumps, it's also about interpretation of music, of the beauty of movement. And in my opinion Alexei does all of these exceptionally. As someone said, Plushenko excites but Alexei awes - and I would rather be awed by the lovely Mr. Yagudin.
Also, I STRONGLY disagree Plushenko has better - anything - than Alexei when both are at the top of their games.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Define artistry. I don't see it in figure skating.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I would argue that Pluschenko in Torino did exactly that - mechnically went through the techncial motions - he outjumped everyone, the judges propped his spins and footwork like usual and gave him PCS that beggered belief because he put nothing other than technical stuff into that performance.
Ant
Sorry but I don´t understand, what exactly do you mean with you don´t see it in figure skating? What is artistry to you? I´m very curious.
/Lena
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think figure skating art is in the mind of the behololder. If I were to say that Kwan had artistry. Do you realize how many posters would disagree!!?
Yes I do
and I agree about "the art is in the mind of the beholder". But then you do see the artistry (I though you didin´t see any that confused me). I do think however artistry is in the interpretation too. Like choreography where like for example a jump or landing goes excatly with the music, face expressions that fits the music or the character the skater act etc. very short explanation./Lena
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Isn't art always in the mind of the beholder, as you put it, Joe? In painting, dance, or skating? There will never be agreement.
I'm sure many jocks think figure skating is more like dance than hockey, because of the artistic element.
I'm sure many jocks think figure skating is more like dance than hockey, because of the artistic element.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
And isn't the "What is art" question as futile as the "Is figure skating a sport" question?
Ant
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
RE: Tim and 'artistry' - I think he got the hang of it... but only once and that was at the SP at Portland Nationals... in 2005... that was magic 
I was there rinkside at SLC when Alexei won his gold. I admit to being hysterical with joy...I had been following him all his career. Yes, Plushenko is an amazing skater, and I love watching him as well. When you have two such wonderful skaters, it's difficult to say which one is ultimately the best overall...it comes down to a matter of opinion, and so I give Plushenko his due. But I give Alexei my Number One assignment!
Tim was indeed on that night-that was the best I ever saw him skate. But he truly was not in the same class as Alexei and Plush. Just his little "flipper" arms alone kill it for me. I loved Sasha Abt far better than Tim that night as well, even though Sasha had too many mistakes to medal. I would have had him in there for the bronze if I could have....
When I look at Plushenko, I always think of the word "Circus." And although many say his "Nijinsky" skate is a masterpiece, I can't imagine any male person looking less like Nijinsky than Plushenko, which kind of kills it for me, though I applaud the concept.
We've gone for 8 pages here, which just proves that it's up to the individual to decide who they like best. I vote Alexei, but I respect the Plush votes, too.
Tim was indeed on that night-that was the best I ever saw him skate. But he truly was not in the same class as Alexei and Plush. Just his little "flipper" arms alone kill it for me. I loved Sasha Abt far better than Tim that night as well, even though Sasha had too many mistakes to medal. I would have had him in there for the bronze if I could have....
When I look at Plushenko, I always think of the word "Circus." And although many say his "Nijinsky" skate is a masterpiece, I can't imagine any male person looking less like Nijinsky than Plushenko, which kind of kills it for me, though I applaud the concept.
We've gone for 8 pages here, which just proves that it's up to the individual to decide who they like best. I vote Alexei, but I respect the Plush votes, too.
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