Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Rissa]

Yeah, i think the zayak risk is about the same for both layout. Layout A seems to be safer for him now, I think? Since if he include 4Lo he will need to get use to the layout too. So if he does 3Lz3Lo +4Lo it will be like having to get used to 2 new types of jumps he is not accustomed to yet.

But 3Lz-3Lo is so cool. And I believe quite uncommon for men so Yuzu would get bonus points for pushing the envelope.

Or perhaps it could be a good strategy for the Olympic year if he opted against a 4 quad LP. A new quad this year, a new combo in the Olympic year. Staying with 3 quad LP would minimize the strain and risk of injury and maximize the chances of having a clean-ish LP. Having a full set of triples as well as 3 different quads in a clean-ish LP might suffice for Olympic gold.

 

[gsyzf]

Yeah, i think the zayak risk is about the same for both layout. Layout A seems to be safer for him now, I think? Since if he includes 4Lo he will need to get use to the layout too. So if he does 3Lz3Lo +4Lo it will be like having to get used to 2 new types of jumps he is not accustomed to yet.

In layout B, 3t, 3s, 3lo are all in combo. If he triples any of 4t, 4s and 4lo, he can double the 3t, 3s, 3lo in combo, even when he triples multiple quads.

In layout A, 3lo is not in combo. If he pops only one of 4t, 4s and 4lo, he can just change the 2nd 3t to 2t. But if he pops two or more quads, e.g. 4t and 4lo, then he needs to change the 2nd 3t to 2t and change the solo 3lo to 2lo. The solo 2lo wouldn't look good. Solo triples would look better than solo double. In the past, he often had that doubled 4S at the beginning of the program, which looked a bit weird to me.

 

[mcq]

But 3Lz-3Lo is so cool. And I believe quite uncommon for men so Yuzu would get bonus points for pushing the envelope.

Or perhaps it could be a good strategy for the Olympic year if he opted against a 4 quad LP. A new quad this year, a new combo in the Olympic year. Staying with 3 quad LP would minimize the strain and risk of injury and maximize the chances of having a clean-ish LP. Having a full set of triples as well as 3 different quads in a clean-ish LP might suffice for Olympic gold.

As long as Boyang doesn't suddenly do 3Lz3Lo+4T3T instead of 3Lz3T+4T2T, it is not necessary to do 4 quad program for Yuzuru. The difference in BV of Layout B to Boyang is only 1 point. Now things will be different if Boyang does 4 type of quad, or 2 4Lz jump instead of 2 4T. There is also Shoma too. But for the time being Layout B is enough to lessen the BV gap. (Previously it is 95.79 for Yuzuru and 103.7 for Boyang. I only mentioned Boyang here cause he is the one with the highest BV among men)

In layout A, 3lo is not in combo. If he pops only one of 4t, 4s and 4lo, he can just change the 2nd 3t to 2t. But if he pops two or more quads, e.g. 4t and 4lo, then he needs to change the 2nd 3t to 2t and change the solo 3lo to 2lo. The solo 2lo wouldn't look good. Solo triples would look better than solo double. In the past, he often had that doubled 4S at the beginning of the program.

Ah true there is also this consideration. However, well, if he pops something it will look unpretty overall in the first place. I meant in terms of the risk of zayaking, 1st layout and 2nd layout is about similar.

 

[gsyzf]

As long as Boyang doesn't suddenly do 3Lz3Lo+4T3T instead of 3Lz3T+4T2T, it is not necessary to do 4 quad program for Yuzuru. The difference in BV of Layout B to Boyang is only 1 point. Now things will be different if Boyang does 4 type of quad, or 2 4Lz jump instead of 2 4T. There is also Shoma too. But for the time being Layout B is enough to lessen the BV gap. (Previously it is 95.79 for Yuzuru and 103.7 for Boyang. I only mentioned Boyang here cause he is the one with the highest BV among men)

He can't wait till other skaters up their tech before he ups his tech.

 

[Meoima]

Latest from Jeffrey Buttle: "Just wrapped up a week of working with 3 Olympic champions. Bananas!!! So much talent." https://twitter.com/J_Butt/status/756957816980697088
Where's my dancing banana?

It's Meryl, Charlie and Yuzuru as the 3 OGM that Jeff mentioned. In Meryl and Charlie's fan thread, I have read that they have been doing something in Canada per Meryl's Snapchat.

 

[Rissa]

As long as Boyang doesn't suddenly do 3Lz3Lo+4T3T instead of 3Lz3T+4T2T, it is not necessary to do 4 quad program for Yuzuru. The difference in BV of Layout B to Boyang is only 1 point. Now things will be different if Boyang does 4 type of quad, or 2 4Lz jump instead of 2 4T. There is also Shoma too. But for the time being Layout B is enough to lessen the BV gap. (Previously it is 95.79 for Yuzuru and 103.7 for Boyang. I only mentioned Boyang here cause he is the one with the highest BV among men)

It's like reading from clouds, what others might do. But I think it's a given that they will up their game too, heck Boyang might just as well do those 2 quad lutzes, he's got 2 years to learn it, doable for him. Shoma's not chopped liver either, if his 4F is good he might start doing 2 by the Olympics... But Layout B should suffice if done cleanly even if others raise their BV as well. :yes:

Omg, I can't believe I've already assigned Yuzu that layout without seeing a single successful 3Lz-3Lo from him!

 

[mcq]

He can't wait till other skaters up their tech before he ups his tech.

It's like reading from clouds, what others might do. But I think it's a given that they will up their game too, heck Boyang might just as well do those 2 quad lutzes, he's got 2 years to learn it, doable for him. Shoma's not chopped liver either, if his 4F is good he might start doing 2 by the Olympics... But Layout B should suffice if done cleanly even if others raise their BV as well. :yes:

Omg, I can't believe I've already assigned Yuzu that layout without seeing a single successful 3Lz-3Lo from him!

Well, I am not saying he shouldn't up his BV more. I was just saying for now it is not necessary, yet. For all we know by the time the olympic season come it could be a 4-quad program + 3Lz3Lo ( the BV would be 107.63, yes I calculated it, guilty as charged ) or even his old seimei layout for Yuzuru. It will depend on his health, consistency and progress. His health is still the number 1 consideration now for his team and him when deciding a layout, I would assume. Wishing him all the best and I hope he can still grow and evolve more (not just technically but artistically) like he always say he wants to.

 

[gsyzf]

Ah true there is also this consideration. However, well, if he pops something it will look unpretty overall in the first place. I meant in terms of the risk of zayaking, 1st layout and 2nd layout is about similar.

There is risk of zayaking as long as a skater pops a jump in any layout, unless the layout doesn't include all types of jumps to maximize BV. IMO, the risk of zayaking is really about how easy it is to avoid zayaking once a skater pops jumps. If he needs to make big changes or significant effort to avoid zayaking once he pops a jump, then the risk of zayaking is quite high. I don't know if he can jump solo 2lo any more. At 2014 NHK, he popped both of his 4s and 4t, by the time he realized it, the best option was to change 3A to 2A, but he couldn't jump 2A any more, so he singled the 3A instead, which caused more loss in BV.

I think it's easier for him to double a triple in combination than do a solo double.

 

[gsyzf]

Well, I am not saying he shouldn't up his BV more. I was just saying for now it is not necessary, yet. For all we know by the time the olympic season come it could be a 4-quad program + 3Lz3Lo ( the BV would be 107.63, yes I calculated it, guilty as charged ) or even his old seimei layout for Yuzuru. It will depend on his health, consistency and progress. His health is still the number 1 consideration now for his team and him when deciding a layout, I would assume. Wishing him all the best and I hope he can still grow and evolve more (not just technically but artistically) like he always say he wants to.

It takes time to get used to new layout. If he doesn't make the change next season and only does it in the olympic season, he will have very little time left to get used to the new layout. I don't think 3lz3lo is some kind of monster jump he can't do. Many girls are doing it. He can do 3lo from almost stand still. It's not that risky. If he doesn't try it next season, and wins WC next year, he would be more reluctant to upgrade his layout in the olympics season. It's better for him to try 3lz3lo next season and if it doesn't work out, he can change it back to 3a3t in the olympic season.

 

[Klarnet]

It's not like 4Lo is without risk, it's nightmare on the hips if I remember correctly. The more he trains 4Lo, the more the risk of of injury increases. Basically, there's no enitrely safe option.

It's just a matter of strategy, it's smarter to give rest to already injured parts of body in order to recoup full strength by worlds, rather than rush into things. As for 4Lo, all quads pose risk of injury, but it might be less stressful to focus on 2 quads including 4S (at least in the 1st half of the season) rather than on 3 quads.

I actually calculate the maximum BV (if all level 4) of both layout, do correct me if my calculation is wrong

Layout A :
4Lo (12) 4T (10.3) 3F (5.3) 4S3Tx (10.5+4.3 x1.1) 3A3Tx (8.5+4.3 x1.1) 3A1Lo3Sx (14.74) 3Lox (5.61) 3Lzx (6.6)
+ StSq4 (3.9) FcCo3Sp4 (3.5)FcSSp4 (3) CCoSp4 (3.5) ChSq (2)
= 100.81

Layout B :
4Lo (12) 4T (10.3) 3F (5.3) 4Sx (10.5x1.1) 3Lz3Lox (6+5.1 x1.1) 3A3Tx (8.5+4.3 x1.1) 3A1Lo3Sx (14.74) 3Lzx (6.6)
+ StSq4 (3.9) FcCo3Sp4 (3.5)FcSSp4 (3) CCoSp4 (3.5) ChSq (2)
= 102.68



P.S : The difference of putting between 3T and 3Lz is about 2 point BV, I don't know if it is worth it enough to do 3Lz3Lo instead of 3A3T to add an extra +/- 2 BV.
Meanwhile, as comparison, Boyang Jin has around 103.7 as his maximun BV for his WC layout. Yuzuru can come close to it (102.6) without adding a 4th quad only by replacing one of his 4T to 4Lo, IF he does 3Lz3Lo or (100+) if he does 3A3T and 4S3T. His old maximum BV is about 95+

In layout A, as there are 3 different quads, he could do 3Lz3T combo instead of 4S3T to make it easier.

 

[gsyzf]

It's just a matter of strategy, it's smarter to give rest to already injured parts of body in order to recoup full strength by worlds, rather than rush into things. As for 4Lo, all quads pose risk of injury, but it might be less stressful to focus on 2 quads including 4S (at least in the 1st half of the season) rather than on 3 quads.

He may have two layouts, one for the first half and one for the 2nd half of the season. But I'm not sure if doing two 4lo and three 4s is less stressful on the body either. Last season, he practiced two 4s and three 4t and he already got injured at the beginning of the season.

 

[Sorrento]

It's Meryl, Charlie and Yuzuru as the 3 OGM that Jeff mentioned. In Meryl and Charlie's fan thread, I have read that they have been doing something in Canada per Meryl's Snapchat.

Cool.:dance:

 

[Meoima]

There is a rumor saying that because of his injury, Yuzuru might not jump quad in the second half for now. So, if I count it right, then a layout like: 4lo, 4t, 4s // 3f, 3lz3t, 3a3t, 3alo3s, 3lo is just half a point less in BV than 4lo 4t 3f // 4s3t, 3a3t 3alo3s 3lo 3lz
(and still 4 points more than his Boston layout)

 

[HanDomi]

There is a rumor saying that because of his injury, Yuzuru might not jump quad in the second half for now. So, if I count it right, then a layout like: 4lo, 4t, 4s // 3f, 3lz3t, 3a3t, 3alo3s, 3lo is just half a point less in BV than 4lo 4t 3f // 4s3t, 3a3t 3alo3s 3lo 3lz
(and still 4 points more than his Boston layout)

or maybe just 4lo and 4s at beginning of season

 

[gsyzf]

or maybe just 4lo and 4s at beginning of season

He has a long season next season. So doing an easier layout (no 4t and no quads in the 2nd half) at the beginning of the season is not a bad idea since the competitions at the beginning of the season are less important than the competitions at the end of the season.

He may do
4lo, 4s3t, 4s/3f, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a2t, 3lo, 3lz (only minor changes from his previous layout, with slightly higher BV) at the beginning of the season.

and

do

4lo, 4t, 3f/4s3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a3t, 3lo, 3lz

or 4lo, 4t, 3f/4s3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a, 3lz3lo, 3lz

or 4lo, 4t3t, 3f/4s, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a, 3lz3lo, 3lz (if he totally avoids toe loop in the 2nd half, I think this is actually very possible) in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[HanDomi]

He has a long season next season. So doing an easier layout (no 4t and no quads in the 2nd half) at the beginning of the season is not a bad idea since the competitions at the beginning of the season are less important than the competitions at the end of the season.

He may do
4lo, 4s3t, 4s/3f, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a2t, 3lo, 3lz (only minor changes from his previous layout) at the beginning of the season.

and

do

4lo, 4t, 3f/4s3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a3t, 3lo, 3lz

or 4lo, 4t, 3f/4s3t, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a, 3lz3lo, 3lz

or 4lo, 4t3t, 3f/4s, 3a-1lo-3s, 3a, 3lz3lo, 3lz (if he totally avoids toe loop in the 2nd half, I think this is actually very possible) in the 2nd half of the season.

well, my guess is if he will be doing quads in 2nd half it's never going to be 4T again, I guess it will be 4S

 

[Meoima]

I think Yuzuru should reduce the Toe loop jump in the second half, because of his injury. So maybe a -3lo combo is not that bad.

 

[Hanmgse]

It's Meryl, Charlie and Yuzuru as the 3 OGM that Jeff mentioned. In Meryl and Charlie's fan thread, I have read that they have been doing something in Canada per Meryl's Snapchat.

omg can't wait to see the program

 

[kiches]

There is a rumor saying that because of his injury, Yuzuru might not jump quad in the second half for now. So, if I count it right, then a layout like: 4lo, 4t, 4s // 3f, 3lz3t, 3a3t, 3alo3s, 3lo is just half a point less in BV than 4lo 4t 3f // 4s3t, 3a3t 3alo3s 3lo 3lz
(and still 4 points more than his Boston layout)

Interesting, where is the rumor from, one of the magazine articles/interviews with Shirota?

 

[Marin]

Interesting, where is the rumor from, one of the magazine articles/interviews with Shirota?

In full version of Shirota's interview for Memorial magazine, she said that due to injury Yuzuru moved all hard jumps in the first half and choose to do safer and comfortable jumps in the second half. Moving quads in the first half is fan speculation, as we know in Yuzuru's case aka "comfortable and safe jump" can be quad sal or quad loop xDD Yuzu things you know )) replacing 3lutz with quad sal was pretty safe and comfortable so who knows...:rofl2: