Zagitova pockets gold at GPF debut

[Sam-Skwantch]

Whatever marks she gets for the tano should also reflect that she has a very unattractive arm position on those jumps.

I actually think it looks nicer than a lot of the standard jumps without any arm variations we see most skaters doing. Especially in real time. Sometimes the straight arm tano actually looks a little silly like they are trying to ask a question. I’m glad we’re starting to see more variations and styles for the accents on jumps. I welcome both the bent arm and straight variations of tanos. I say... do what ya like. Everyone doing the same thing goes against the nature of an artistic sport.

I don’t think Masha is getting GOE for the tanos though and I think her PCS is also taking a bit of a hit. The judges don’t have to reward arm variations if they don’t want to.

Rippons are my favorite accents. I don’t even care if someone spams a program with them. They increase my enjoyment that much. Maybe we’ll start to see some bent arm Rippons too

 

[LiamForeman]

I've written this before, but I like Sotskova's arms in her jumps. It reminds me of Harding's arms in her 2flip from her 1991 SP. I see it as an artistic choice.

 

[jenaj]

No they clearly aren't. Look at where Zagitova leaves the ice (or even just the direction of her blade by the time she picks in on the 3T) and then measure the rotation from that point. She's getting less than 2.25 rotations in the air. Her salchow has a spinny takeoff, she's nearly sideways by the time she leaves the ice and she doesn't land close to backwards either. If you actually look at her feet instead of the arms over the head then it is easy to see.



Underrotations have nothing to do with a program being masterful or not. I would have called Satako for an underrotation in the SP (the judges did not) but that doesn't change how her blade usage and fluidity and the overall usage of her body and choreography and musicality are better than anyone else.

Also as far as the technical elements go, Satako had the best spins of anyone and her mastery of skating skills and sharpness of movement allowed her to have the best step sequence of the competition. Better than Carolina Kostner, who has great edge quality but is not able to do rapid movements as well anymore, both with her skates and with the way she moves her limbs.

For scoring purposes, the rotation isn't measured from where the skater leaves the ice. The pre-rotation issue has been discussed ad nauseum on another thread so I won't repeat it. But the measurement for deciding URs is where the blade touches down.

 

[jenaj]

I am trying hard to like Alina she is such a beautiful girl and a fierce competitor but those half over boots tights are killing me. I was amused to read in a recent interview that Eteri is very strict as regards to her skaters' appearance not only in competitions but in practice -all girls have to have their hair and nails done every day , and even to wear fingerless gloves so the the latter to be seen to all. Apparently nobody told Eteri that shoes either can make or break a lady's outfit - what a pity... imagining these 'hooves' on Oly podium...

For me, it's not just the ugly half over-the-boot tights. It's the whole package. The red tutu looks like something from the costume closet. I even heard that Evgenia wore it as a junior. And the red opera gloves are Halloween-ish to me but I suppose they complete this particular "look."

 

[Neenah16]

For me, it's not just the ugly half over-the-boot tights. It's the whole package. The red tutu looks like something from the costume closet. I even heard that Evgenia wore it as a junior. And the red opera gloves are Halloween-ish to me but I suppose they complete this particular "look."

She did

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvKG-vfX6Is&feature=youtu.be

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I have to disagree. Satoko's URs and PRs doesn't affect her program at all when you look at in a performance, interpretation and choreographic point of view. It should affect her TES and rightly so. The flaws of her jumps are not at all a disturbance in her overall performance unlike a fall or a step out. Her jumps are smoothly landed, UR and PR aside.

They dont affect programme, but they dont give nothing to the programme eather, and that could be the problem. While with many other skaters jumps are big factor which if done well, add something more to the performance. Even jumping big with one rotation (same as Jason's split jump or Alina's jumps sequence) could wow the viewers. So, it affects Performance component. It could affect Composition in terms that there is no triple jumps or variety in jumps or timing of the jumps. It could not affect interpretation of the music tho, and Satoko should score really big there.

 

[Tutto]

For me, it's not just the ugly half over-the-boot tights. It's the whole package. The red tutu looks like something from the costume closet. I even heard that Evgenia wore it as a junior. And the red opera gloves are Halloween-ish to me but I suppose they complete this particular "look."

IMHO the idea is not to let Alina outshine Evgenia who is sure a pretty girl but Alina is a stunning beauty with a star quality in spades... hence the ugly tights, old dress etc just my guess..

 

[jajoana]

She did

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvKG-vfX6Is&feature=youtu.be

This dress Alina wore last season http://fs-gossips.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/zagitova-537x307.jpg .
For 2017/2018 she's got the new one http://www.trud.ru/userfiles/gallery/eb/b_eb60dc47b69f8311d01b8b767670fa43.jpg.

 

[Icey]

You mean there was a pocket in that costume?

 

[jenm]

I do think it should affect her performance scores though. Maybe not the UR or PR aspect but the overall barely off of the ice and just lack of power are a huge contradiction to her huge presence when assessing her interpretative ability. The overall presentation can be affected by TES in my oppionion and her jumps are almost disruptive. It’s not as if skaters enter a vacuum and performorm their jumps in a different realm. StSeq’s can have a tremendous impact on a program and its quality certainly can have an impact. Look at it this way....think of a skater with impressive jumps or even spins. Those high quality moments do add to the physical connection a skater can lend to a program’s performance value. Look at Rika’s 3a-3t for an example. It certainly adds value to this performance.

The annoying thing is the judges are too lazy to assess individual components with any variance. Here is how I’d expect to score Satoko on average. Obviously these would vary based on the effort.

SS: 8.5
Transitions: 8.0
Interpretation of the Music: 9.5
Performance:8.75
Composition: 9.5

———________————______————-_______


About Masha’s PCS: I think they are punishing her Performance and Composition scores for the excessive Tanos but they seem to help her not UR so it’s s fair trade off. The thing is...if the judges are punishing for excessive Tano are we now in a realm where we need to start punishing chicken wing arms for every jump? I don’t think so but I think the judges are start starting to open this door for discussion.

As a fan of big beautiful jumps (one of the reasons why I'm a Yuna fan), I agree that jumps are a great aspect of the program and a wow factor. But I disagree with the statement that just because jumps are small and flawed (in terms of UR and PR), a program cannot be masterful. Jumps don't make up the whole program is my point.

 

[jenm]

They dont affect programme, but they dont give nothing to the programme eather, and that could be the problem. While with many other skaters jumps are big factor which if done well, add something more to the performance. Even jumping big with one rotation (same as Jason's split jump or Alina's jumps sequence) could wow the viewers. So, it affects Performance component. It could affect Composition in terms that there is no triple jumps or variety in jumps or timing of the jumps. It could not affect interpretation of the music tho, and Satoko should score really big there.

I don't know what you mean because Satoko's programs this season are some of the most well composed programs among the ladies. Her jumps may be small and flawed but they are quite well timed and placed in the program.

 

[vorravorra]

IMHO the idea is not to let Alina outshine Evgenia who is sure a pretty girl but Alina is a stunning beauty with a star quality in spades... hence the ugly tights, old dress etc just my guess..

Is beauty the most important thing in a skater though? I don't see in what Alina outshines Evgenia other than more difficult tech content. There is a lot of work to be done before her skating is less juniorish.

 

[j00mla]

I don't think Eteri plans something against Alina, she just care much more about Med, because they are almost like relatives allready. Alina must be more initiative in upholding her interests, she is still rather child then adult so it's not easy to her - a teenage girl far from parents in the skating group where initiative of students is expected as one of primary attributes, 2 years before she was unknown quitter and now she is in the top of the world best skaters... Damn, she's unbelievable

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I don't know what you mean because Satoko's programs this season are some of the most well composed programs among the ladies. Her jumps may be small and flawed but they are quite well timed and placed in the program.

I agree with you, i love her programmes too. But how well programme is choreographed may have nothing to do how skater brings that choreography in the ice rink on a competition day and how Composition is going to be scored in the end. I was just saying that in general some parts of Composition (as placing of the elements on ice surface and usage of ice surface and ice rink - skaters pattern on the ice) we cant objectively judge by watching it on TV screen. Skaters can score high in Composition if they 'fill the rink' while skating the programme and if they succeed in present variety of movements and ways of skating (as well as they can by expressing idea and character of the programme and nuancies of the music). Im not saying that Satoko cant succeed in other aspects of Composition too, but how what we can see is sometimes only about 50% of the Composition mark.

 

[russianfan]

IMHO the idea is not to let Alina outshine Evgenia who is sure a pretty girl but Alina is a stunning beauty with a star quality in spades... hence the ugly tights, old dress etc just my guess..

WOW, some new conspiracy theories, now about Eteri and Alina

 

[jajoana]

WOW, some new conspiracy theories, now about Eteri and Alina

Not really.
Since it was announced that Alina was going to keep her LP thre has been constant whining on some sport forums. Looks like pepole just want to think, that Alina is a red-headed stepchild in Etery's group and it's a sort of evidence, how cruel Etery is. Im not a fan of Etery, but it's really too much.

 

[Mathman]

IMHO the idea is not to let Alina outshine Evgenia who is sure a pretty girl but Alina is a stunning beauty with a star quality in spades... hence the ugly tights, old dress etc just my guess..

The Cinderella theory. The wicked stepmother dresses Cinderella in rags so she won't outshine the ugly stepsisters at the Prince's ball.

 

[MaiKatze]

Not really.
Since it was announced that Alina was going to keep her LP thre has been constant whining on some sport forums. Looks like pepole just want to think, that Alina is a red-headed stepchild in Etery's group and it's a sort of evidence, how cruel Etery is. Im not a fan of Etery, but it's really too much.

But that doesn't make much sense. If Tudberidze really wanted to hold Alina back behind Evgenia, she should've given her an easier program with more jumps in the first half. Her highest LP score this season is higher than Evgenia's. This could've been easily avoided if she had an easier program. Her doing this extremely hard program is possible because of her youth. She's lucky her debut season is the Olympics season, she can win on TES. Who knows if that will still be possible for her at 16? 17?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

As a fan of big beautiful jumps (one of the reasons why I'm a Yuna fan), I agree that jumps are a great aspect of the program and a wow factor. But I disagree with the statement that just because jumps are small and flawed (in terms of UR and PR), a program cannot be masterful. Jumps don't make up the whole program is my point.

Well I think the scores I posted reflect that of a masterful program that happens to have a few disruptions affecting the overall picture.

 

[moriel]

The Cinderella theory. The wicked stepmother dresses Cinderella in rags so she won't outshine the ugly stepsisters at the Prince's ball.

But then... I recall people raging about Evgenia ugly tights some time ago too =D