Men's 300+ Total Points Club

[bibi1899]

Who cares if all the jumps weren't perfect when someone can skate like that? I feel for those judges, having to sit through mediocre performance after performance until Javi finally gets on the ice.

All the judges should care about it! They are international judges and they should be responsible for the correct and proper judgement. If they don't care about even a bad landing can receive positive GOE, why should we need the judge system? why should we need those judges? We should burn all the technical handbooks, since judges don't care about it.....

 

[da96103]

I love Javier and Hanyu. The thing that these two men have going for them that no one other than Patrick has a great program. You can argue that Javi shouldn't be doing the same kind of program over and over but it what he excel's at. Both Javi and Yuzu have intricate programs with maximum scoring value that suits them to a T. That is why the PCS is so high with Javi even with mistakes. The judges love the programs and reward him for it. A program like Shoma's is spectacular and he may posess all of the skills to score in that 300 range but the actual program will need to become more intricate. Shoma is wonderful and I enjoy his skating he has power and softness which is so unique. I do think that it will take a better program to get to 300. Of course this is just my opinion. I also think Dennis with a clean skate could score close but I believe that Patrick and Shoma will do it before Dennis. Dennis is into so many other things besides skating, I think his focus is not the same as the other top men. Again, just my opinion.

Are you talking about this passage from his wikipedia?

Ten was the official ambassador for the Olympic Bidding Committee "Almaty 2022". He is a member of the Astana Presidential Sports Club[8] and the Political Party "Nur Otan". In 2013, he began producing his own ice show, "Denis Ten and Friends". In summer 2014, he announced his co-operation with All That Sports management company established by Kim Yuna.

 

[Franklin99]

Aaron to score 200 in LP would need to hit TES at Hanyu level. Impossible

I'm only talking about his SP potential.

 

[HanDomi]

I'm only talking about his SP potential.

I guess with 2 perfect quads in short he could score max 95, internationally of course.

At SA he got 86 for perfect 1 quad sp. 48 TES 38.5 PCS. Let's say quad will add him 5 points, so 53 TES + I guess max 40-1 PCS so...

 

[sabinfire]

Wow, that slop scored 300+ yesterday? Since the bar has been lowered, you can bet at least one more new man will break 300 at 4CC, and same at Worlds.

 

[HanDomi]

Wow, that slop scored 300+ yesterday? Since the bar has been lowered, you can bet at least one more new man will break 300 at 4CC, and same at Worlds.

Yep. Hanyu smashed records and now we discovered that half of the mens field now can break 300 points easily :dev2:

 

[xibsuarz]

Wow, that slop scored 300+ yesterday? Since the bar has been lowered, you can bet at least one more new man will break 300 at 4CC, and same at Worlds.

Mmm perhaps Patrick, and either Yuzuru, Javier, or him could repeat at Worlds, but I don't really see anyone else doing it

 

[sabinfire]

Mmm perhaps Patrick, and either Yuzuru, Javier, or him could repeat at Worlds, but I don't really see anyone else doing it

Patrick Chan and Shoma Uno will probably be next in line. D10 definitely has the potential to do it too. His win at 4CC last year was miles better than the sloppy skates at Euros this year.

 

[Jaana]

I think that Aaron would get over 300 points only if all his jumps in sp and fs were quads. In PCS he is too far behind the top guys in this moment, but of course there is always a possibility of improvemen.

 

[Globetrotter]

Yep, I guess that’s the reason everytime he enters the ice rink the atmosphere in the arena makes yesterday waiting K&C looking like a warm room full of loving friends.
Really gurl, you’re reaching here, trying way too hard.
Yes, some of those GOEs were a farce (not going on PCS as I think the way they are given is wrong for everyone and not just for a few skaters) and his SS are not on par with those of the other top skaters, but if there’s something he has it’s his charisma, his charming ability to connect with the audience and his ability to be an entertainer while still putting a huge tech content on the ice.
Of course you don’t have to like him, but if you go on saying how mildly the crowds react to him or how much they don’t care for him, then you’re just delusional and all I can say to you is: stay pressed

Not sure why NicoleH has such an adverse reaction to Javi. Russia, Bratislava, Shanghai - you name it, the audience love him. It's a very intrinsic thing that is unique to Javi, much like what you get with Daisuke Takahashi and Elena Radionova. PCS wise, you will never think of them as having great SS and the carriage and arms can sometimes go sloppy. But the audience still love them despite the flaws. Their big personalities and X factor carries through and you don't underestimate this weapon. Judges are human too. The cheers and positive vibes coming from the audience can readily put them in a more relaxed and generous frame of mind - sloppy arms? But that still looks charming. Fight for landing? Well it was still on one foot and he/she still turn out a big smile and I just feel so good. +1. Of course I am not saying this is fair or right but if you have the charm and looks to win the audience and judges' hearts, you get away more. It's unfair but it's human reality.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Not sure why NicoleH has such an adverse reaction to Javi. Russia, Bratislava, Shanghai - you name it, the audience love him. It's a very intrinsic thing that is unique to Javi, much like what you get with Daisuke Takahashi and Elena Radionova. PCS wise, you will never think of them as having great SS and the carriage and arms can sometimes go sloppy. But the audience still love them despite the flaws. Their big personalities and X factor carries through and you don't underestimate this weapon. Judges are human too. The cheers and positive vibes coming from the audience can readily put them in a more relaxed and generous frame of mind - sloppy arms? But that still looks charming. Fight for landing? Well it was still on one foot and he/she still turn out a big smile and I just feel so good. +1. Of course I am not saying this is fair or right but if you have the charm and looks to win the audience and judges' hearts, you get away more. It's unfair but it's human reality.

Oh, no, no, no, no. Javier Fernandez is NO Daisuke Takahashi in ANY aspect. That is insulting. He was also anything but sloppy and has as good of skating sills as Patrick Chan.

 

[Rissa]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Javier Fernandez is NO Daisuke Takahashi in ANY aspect. That is insulting. He was also anything but sloppy and has as good of skating sills as Patrick Chan.

Of for pete's sake, can people get off their high horse and stop bashing skaters? No, comparing Javi to Daisuke is not insulting Daisuke. Audience loved Daisuke, despite all the occasional mistakes he made, and audience does like Javi, one must be blind not yo recognize that, in spite of how "sloppy" or "unskilled" he is. What people are defending, is Javi's ability to make audience like him, not the quality of his skating. Nobody is saying that Javi is the only skater with that ability either, Javi being charismatic doesn't take away anything from Daisuke, or Hanyu, or anybody else. Charismatic skaters aren't the same, they have their own brand of charisma, they draw others in for different reasons. Daisuke did it with sexy openness, Hanyu does it with crazy-eyed intensity, Javi does it with charm and wink. Why is the simple idea of likebility, evident in Javi's skating, so strange to some people and makes people see insults where only compliments were intended?

 

[futurepupdoc]

I didn't know these things specifically but I do follow him on social media and he is a busy busy person. Lots of skaters are always skating and you see very few pictures of videos besides training or something to do with skating or working out... But Dennis does all kinds of fun videos that are truly unique and artistic.

 

[Globetrotter]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Javier Fernandez is NO Daisuke Takahashi in ANY aspect. That is insulting. He was also anything but sloppy and has as good of skating sills as Patrick Chan.

I think you got too carried away. I meant that skaters like Javi has the ability to get audience on their side. Surely you are not denying that. Daisuke and Elena Radionova are other good examples who always get folks loving them even if they dun skate clean. They of course do it in different ways but the end result is they can get the audience fired up and like it or not, judges will get more generous when the audience gets positively involved.

Unfortunately I have to disagree that Daisuke had as good SS as PChan. He has much better PE, CR and IN but definitely not SS. The lean, the blade work and the effortlessness is not quite at PChan level, although he still has pretty good SS. Just that it is hard pressed to find anyone who actually matches up to PChan in that aspect.

 

[tureis]

Here’s what I think about the SS debate. It’s worth 20% of the total PCS and deserves that much attention, not more.

We live in an age of figure skating where the top ranking men are by default considered 9+ skaters across the board and their PCS reflect that. Should it be that way? Of course not. Skaters are not equally great or average in all 5 areas. If a skater is at 7-8 in SS or TR but 9-10 in P/E or IN, the scores should reflect that. But judges still haven’t made that transition in their way of thinking and to be honest, at this point it looks like they never will. So as an example, skaters with average SS but great P/E and IN will always see their SS and even CH scores inflated, and skaters with outstanding SS and TR who are not natural performers will have their IN inflated.

I have no doubt that many could just watch brilliant edge work all day and find pure skating skills the most fascinating aspect of figure skating. It’s still just one aspect of this sport and isn’t enough on its own to rank one skater above another in general. Neither are choreography or interpretation for that matter.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I actually think it will be Uno, instead of Chan. Chan's got the goods to crack 300 and Uno doesn't quite yet, but Chan would need absolute perfection (which he's only done once), and if Uno adds a 4S (which he's landed in practice recently) and gets his PCS to rise even higher (more than it already has increased exceedingly in the past year), he'll get 300. I would also expect Jin to eventually get above 300, but I have a feeling that the judges will never give him PCS above 85, no matter how much he improves or how cleanly he skates.

 

[HanDomi]

I actually think it will be Uno, instead of Chan. Chan's got the goods to crack 300 and Uno doesn't quite yet, but Chan would need absolute perfection (which he's only done once), and if Uno adds a 4S (which he's landed in practice recently) and gets his PCS to rise even higher (more than it already has increased exceedingly in the past year), he'll get 300. I would also expect Jin to eventually get above 300, but I have a feeling that the judges will never give him PCS above 85, no matter how much he improves or how cleanly he skates.

And rightly so, because his PCS shouldn't rise just because of number of quads

 

[kelleigh]

Please forgive me to be topic: but the bashing thing is really disturbing. Though IMO I don't see it's an absolute fairness for Javier's 300 at Euro, charisma is another thing that you can't just say he doesn't have it because you hate him on your own self. I am definitely not a fan of Javier (especially his FS this year) but reaction from the audiences to him is absolutely not a cold shoulder. A fact that you have to admit. I do think his FS score was inflated a bit in Euro (remain neutral for SP as I find the look-like-very-high score was within an understandable spectrum - one more quad for TES), but 1. the gap between his and the other's scores was on the right track. I am not talking about the ranking, but their scores exactly. Looking at Kovtun et al, to me it sounds like the judges were giving out belated New Year presents to everyone, they were being too generous to all of them, not only to Fernandez. And that's not Fernandez's fault. 2. That's Euro. I do think 4CC and Euro are usually score-inflated and overrated that those two should not be weighted at the same level of recognition in ISU ranking system.

Someone says Denise's performance last year in 4CC was way much better than this year's messy Euro which is what I agree to. However there were some complaints about inflation for 4CC last year too which is what agree to, again. What I want to say is, I bet 4CC will follow the trend of inflation, no matter it will be a perfect one like GPF or a mediocre one like Euro, I will not be surprised to see anyone get over 300 even by a skating with cracks here and there. Perhaps participants in 4CC last year didn't break 300 just because there was not the trend, but the panel is now very much ready to give it out. Is it correct? I don't think so. Is it Fernandez's fault? Not really.

For Fernandez, I will wait and see his score in the coming World Champ. And his footwork is really beautiful, his interpretation and choreography are fascinating too, even his landings are not nice, this doesn't affect his SS/IN/CH. According to his FS performance in Euro, some people keep pinching on his GOE but the only one thing I can't agree on is just the +0.14 GOE of his s/o 4T. Basically he got -GOEs for his flawed jumps. Should that be a justify reason for people to ventilate their anger and hatred to him? One doesn't need to like any skater, but people need to be rational and objective. And in any ways, scores are from judges, not from the skaters. I, myself, would be much stricter to give the scores to the skaters in Euro but I am not the judge and it is important for the audiences to understand there would be differences between different people's point of views. If the judges are not 100% right, how can you angrily say that they are wrong and you are the right when we are talking about the less-than-3-point margin which does not affect the medals? Fernandez is not the first to demolish 300 and he just came over it by around 2 points. Even though it's questionable, is that so unforgivable?

Okay, going back to the over-300 estimation. I look at it in terms of the judging trend in reality (in my eyes), IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT I LOVE TO SEE IT HAPPENS OR AGREEING ON THESE :handw:
P Chan - Yes if he does his FS extremely clean. I still remember the booing-world champ thing (not a good gesture though.) The judges always love him and he deserves the PCS indeed in most cases. He doesn't need to be perfect, the judges will give it all if he's not too bad.
Uno - Yes but not this season of course. He needs another quad to his programs as his PCS is not in the same league with P Chan. But he will have the second quad soon and he gets good PCS in terms of a rookie so I expect it should only go up in the future then he will be ready for 300.
D Ten - Who knows the magic Ten? When he's on, he's fabulous, when he's off, he's...... not on the rink. TBH Ten is the kind of skater having balance between technical ability (jump+spin), skating skills and interpretation/showmanship, but he needs the consistency to let the judges go for it.
Boyang Jin - Not now and not likely in the future also if he can't fix his PCS.
Nathan Chen - Let's just wish him the best at this moment. Sounds cruel, but really not sure if he will be able to make it or not with such a messy injury in such a young age.
Maxim Kovtun - No. He's consistently doing a lousy job.
Han Yan, Daisuke Murakami, Max Aaron - No.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And rightly so, because his PCS shouldn't rise just because of number of quads

In some ways it should. Especially if transitions come into and out of quads (making them more effective), and obviously the performance/execution mark should be higher because quads enhance the overall impression and level of difficulty of a program. CH/IN is arguably tied to quads, if the quads are matched to highlights in the music or key moments (the best example I can think of is Chan's quad in his Phantom program which is timed exactly with the iconic chord of POTO -- if it were a double axel or an easy triple it wouldn't be as effective).

 

[HanDomi]

In some ways it should. Especially if transitions come into and out of quads (making them more effective), and obviously the performance/execution mark should be higher because quads enhance the overall impression and level of difficulty of a program. CH/IN is arguably tied to quads, if the quads are matched to highlights in the music or key moments (the best example I can think of is Chan's quad in his Phantom program which is timed exactly with the iconic chord of POTO -- if it were a double axel or an easy triple it wouldn't be as effective).

But he doesn't have any transitions to jumps