2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 2

[Warwick360]

lol, in what world was the scoring fair? Satoko's PCS - she has a program. she has choreography. not that the judged cared... Kaetlyn's combo - she put the foot down and the combo doesn't get invalidated? Evgenia's PCS and GOE? - how did that spin even get positive GOE, it traveled a visibly?

Robin Cousin kept talking about the type of musicality Satoko has, how she "seamlessly" executes program to the music. And judges reward her with that dud of a score. Simply unbelievable. And then to give Osmond a higher PCS. Giving new level of meaning to "salt to the wound". :disapp:

 

[Eclair]

Robin Cousin kept talking about the type of musicality Satoko has, how she "seamlessly" executes program to the music. And judges reward her with that dud of a score. Simply unbelievable. And then to give Osmond a higher PCS. Giving new level of meaning to "salt to the wound". :disapp:

to be fair, I don't have that much of a problem with Kaetlyn's PCS, especially considering what Evgenia got. Kaetlyn is fast and has excellent SS and she portrays her program character sufficiently. I wouldn't have given Kaetlyn that combo though. And waaaay higher PCS for Satoko.

 

[Tolstoj]

lol, in what world was the scoring fair? Satoko's PCS - she has a program. she has choreography. not that the judged cared... Kaetlyn's combo - she put the foot down and the combo doesn't get invalidated? Evgenia's PCS and GOE? - how did that spin even get positive GOE, it traveled a visibly?

Satoko is beautiful but you can't deny that her skating is still very small, especially when you watch her live without the camera close on her.

Kaetlyn's combo, Jackie Wong explained on twitter why it was convalidated, i would have counted as a step-out on the lutz because that's what judges did in the past. But honestly on her SP i would argue more on how she managed to get the base value for that scratchy 3lutz.

Evgenia's PCS were to that level all season, judges like her a lot, i thought she was really good and we can't forget that she has more transitions in her program than the others but she should have been below Kostner on the components for sure.

The first spin wasn't great, i said it before but it's not the only spin that got away with positive goes somehow.

Nothing out of ordinary honestly, Kaetlyn, Evgenia and Carolina being pushed by the judges is not new to me.

 

[readernick]

My point being. Flexibility should not be a key into being considered a better spin alone. Sure, it may allow hitting the levels more easily if there is flexibility. But GOEs should be left far away from that matter. Especially considering how skaters have been constantly complaining about problems around hip/back area.

But even discounting injury concerns, perhaps I should have used Berenice instead of Dabin. Just because Berenice goes for those aforementioned I spins and Biellmann, she should get higher scores than Caro? God, no. Sure Evgenia's positions are nice, but when their centring are as bad as it was on some of the spins today, the GOEs are simply indefensible. Even her jumps aren't that technically great to be fair (discounting the arm on the head gimmick).

Yes, no hate for Evgenia here because I admire her mentality and drive so much but those jumps aren't pretty. They are muscled. But, she does them in the last half of her program and she always lands them. So respect!! Does not really deserve those GOEs but the "Queen" of figure skating always gets high GOE's deserved or not. It happened with Yuna kim too in certain elements. For instance, usually Mao had better spins than Yuna but Yuna would get better GOE's. It is just the way it works in the current judging system.

There are clear rules for GOE. It is possible to get a high GOE on a spin even if it is not centered because there is a list of different criteria that can lead to high GOE and you don't have to hit all of them. But, I think Carolina and Medvedeva probably deserve very similar GOE's. Because they both hit enough criteria for high GOE even if they don't hit all the criteria. But, the best spinner (to me, anyway) is Miyahara. Her spins hit every criteria.

 

[Eclair]

Satoko is beautiful but you can't deny that her skating is still very small, especially when you watch her live without the camera close on her.

Kaetlyn's combo, Jackie Wong explained on twitter why it was convalidated, i would have counted as a step-out on the lutz because that's what judges did in the past. But honestly on her SP i would argue more on how she managed to get the base value for that scratchy 3lutz.

Evgenia's PCS were to that level all season, judges like her a lot, i thought she was really good and we can't forget that she has more transitions in her program than the others but she should have been below Kostner on the components.

The first spin wasn't great, i said it before but it's not the only spin that got away with positive goes.

Nothing out of ordinary honestly, Kaetlyn, Evgenia and Kostner being pushed by the judges is not new to me.

You're right, it's nothing new. Still doesn't make it fair judging in my books. And Satoko's choreography, interpretation and musicality should mean something, especially since she has good edge-work and SS. She's not lightening fast, but she has exceptionally wonderful programs.

I have never ever seen a combo with a foot touching the ice getting validated before. It's the first time it was judged this way. The most what happened ever, was the foot touched the ice, stayed on the ice for longer than a second then the skater jumped and that combo was validated. But that's not was Kaetlyn did.

 

[Warwick360]

to be fair, I don't have that much of a problem with Kaetlyn's PCS, especially considering what Evgenia got. Kaetlyn is fast and has excellent SS and she portrays her program character sufficiently. I wouldn't have given Kaetlyn that combo though. And waaaay higher PCS for Satoko.

Same problem for me. I don't mind wherever Kaetlyn's PCS may be. But relatively, to be so much higher than Satoko is simply baffling to me; leaves me to wonder how baffling it must be for her. Kaetlyn may be fast, but I can't think anyone can accuse Satoko for not having a tremendous ice coverage she has or for not being mature enough, in spite of being smaller than others. Also, her spins and step sequence for me are far superior than Osmond's. Can't see how on Kaetlyn's off day can judges justify those ridiculous scores.

 

[Tolstoj]

My point being. Flexibility should not be a key into being considered a better spin alone. Sure, it may allow hitting the levels more easily if there is flexibility. But GOEs should be left far away from that matter. Especially considering how skaters have been constantly complaining about problems around hip/back area.

But even discounting injury concerns, perhaps I should have used Berenice instead of Dabin. Just because Berenice goes for those aforementioned I spins and Biellmann, she should get higher scores than Caro? God, no. Sure Evgenia's positions are nice, but when their centring are as bad as it was on some of the spins today, the GOEs are simply indefensible. Even her jumps aren't that technically great to be fair (discounting the arm on the head gimmick).

It was just the first spin, the other two spins were great, better than Kostner's spins.

Honestly to me none of Caro's spins are +3 worthy. Lack of speed, still not very centered, lack of flexibility, and she doesn't even hold those positions that much.

 

[chopinskate]

LOL on 2A
Med - 2,2,1,1,3,1,2,2,2

Bullet points:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of
the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

 

[Warwick360]

For instance, usually Mao had better spins than Yuna but Yuna would get better GOE's. It is just the way it works in the current judging system.

Mao always had the greater positions. But Yuna usually had the speed and control with edges (also that intrinsic understanding of whether the rotation has been met). Mao surprisingly kept hitting level 3 on LSP in the 2009-2010 season, even though she had all the qualities not to (almost like in Karen's case, by coming off a position too soon).

But my point is, you could normally rationalise these difference, one way or the other. I wish when there is a blatant flaw on the day, that the judges wouldn't try to brush that flaw under the carpet. And to do that repeatedly through the season just takes the cake.

 

[Shayuki]

I thought the scoring was okay. The only real problem I have is Kostner's PCS(too simple for that PCS - PCS isn't only about interpretation) and that Osmond was 3rd. If I'm being honest, despite me not being a fan at all, I'd have had Bradie Tennell 3rd. At least she attempts complex footwork and at least she landed her jumps properly, two things I can only say for Medvedeva in addition to her.

I just really don't like it when skaters can get away with such poor combos and not be penalized for it at all in terms of their actual placement.

 

[Warwick360]

It was just the first spin, the other two spins were great, better than Kostner's spins.

Honestly to me none of Caro's spins are +3 worthy. Lack of speed, still not very centered, lack of flexibility, and she doesn't even hold those positions that much.

Lack of speed, not centred and not holding those position enough? Any other day, but not today. Again, why are we still raging about flexibility? If that was the case, Javi would be getting level ones constantly.

 

[Tolstoj]

LOL on 2A
Med - 2,2,1,1,3,1,2,2,2

Bullet points:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of
the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

She does raise the free leg on the entry so that counts as a difficult entry or even steps movements.

 

[chopinskate]

She does raise the free leg on the entry so that counts as a difficult entry or even steps movements.

Still only a +1. I'd also count her muscling as a negative for the jump.

 

[risingtrot]

Kaetlyn getting that score is appalling and disappointing. It should be much lower and she should be behind Bradie. I try to be neutral and reasonable as much as I can here but this was an obvious disappointment. Also getting a +3 GOE even with that mistake? I don't get why she is propped up so much. Daleman is so much better than her imo.

Satoko's And Dabin's PCS should be higher. Satoko got a -3 for her clean 3LO. I hope these mistakes in GOE are just misses and not intentional otherwise there's obviously something wrong in the actual scoring system program they use added with the the actual biases by the judges.

I'm sure ISU has enough funding to correct their scoring system for this type of GOE mistakes but they seem to be not doing anything.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Indeed. And where did your eyes roll to when an SP where this happened scored 78.57, more than three points higher than Kostner's score today? [emoji23]

Stayed in sockets, maybe a blink [emoji23]

 

[kevinVchicago]

Her combo was way better than Katelyn's...Caro's was a 3F+3T that many believed was not ur, I was 50/50... otoh, Katelyn should not have gotten any credit for the second jump...her foot CLEARLY touched the ice after the first. She should have gotten 3F+ combo and either have the 3T< or 3Lz count as her solo jump. Based on the combo alone Kostner should have been 4 points ahead of Katelyn....and for PCS etc. she should have gained another 3 points.

Kaetlyn's was a total mess too; I agree. But I don't know about way better. [emoji23]

 

[Tulipstar]

Wow, just wow, Dabin and Satoko were SO robbed. I love Kaetlyn but the judging was UNFAIR. Glad to see that it was overall good event, ice ended up not being that awful at the end lol Happy for Evgenia, she nailed it, rooting for her in the competition.

I loved Evgenia's program!

 

[readernick]

I thought the scoring was okay. The only real problem I have is Kostner's PCS(too simple for that PCS - PCS isn't only about interpretation) and that Osmond was 3rd. If I'm being honest, despite me not being a fan at all, I'd have had Bradie Tennell 3rd. At least she attempts complex footwork and at least she landed her jumps properly, two things I can only say for Medvedeva in addition to her.

I just really don't like it when skaters can get away with such poor combos and not be penalized for it at all in terms of their actual placement.

You are right it isn't just intrepretation . It is Skating Skills= Carolina has the best of any lady in the world. Transitions=She does not do as many franctic turns as the younger girls but she does more difficult transitions and more multi-directional skating. Performance Execution= this is where jumps can matter if they take away from the performance/ especially if there are falls but did that happen today? No, she still brought the crowd to its feet. Choreography=the best program (along with Miyahara's) and the choreography is perfectly executed. Intrepretation of Music = again top 2 in the world.

What PCS mark does she not deserve?

In fact, I question how the leader deserves the same SS mark , Choreography mark, or Intrepretation of music mark as Carolina. She is good but isn't at the same level.

 

[Shayuki]

Your right it isn't just intrepretation . It is Skating Skills= Carolina has the best of any lady in the world. Transitions=She does not do as many franctic turns as the younger girls but she does more difficult transitions and more multi-directional skating. Performance Execution= this is were jumps can matter if they take away from the performance/ especially if there are falls but did that happen today? No, she still brought the crowd to its feet. Choreography=the best program (along with Miyahara's) and the choreography is perfectly executed. Intrepretation of Music = again top 2 in the world.

What PCS mark does she not deserve?

I'm really not a huge fan of the interpretation or choreo. Why does it make sense to keep smiling when performing supposedly sad / emotional choreo? It just doesn't work and she has the same facial expression always. She also flails which is a big no-no for me. But that's up to personal tastes so I guess I wouldn't argue that.

I think she doesn't display the skating skills or transitions to deserve those marks, specifically. In my opinion, "having" high skating skills isn't enough, you also need to "display" them.

Opening -> first jump -> second jump there's only one "bracket(starting on two foot)" and tons of completely empty two-foot skating. "If she has such good glide why does she need to perform so many crossovers all the time?" Even the connecting choctaws to the second jump, are they even there? She certainly doesn't stay on one foot for longer than a split-second. The thing is, because of her step sequence I know she can do this stuff properly so why doesn't she display this in between the elements? And that also is why I think skaters should need to -display- the skating skills instead of just taking a few laps around the rink and going "Well, my name is Carolina Kostner, I'll get high SS anyway". If her glide's so good why does she need to stay on 2 feet doing nothing for extended periods of time? If her basic skating is so good why does she need to crossover all the time?

I think she's immensely overrated but your mileage might vary. If you have skating skills, please display them.

In fact, I question how the leader deserves the same SS mark , Choreography mark, or Intrepretation of music mark as Carolina. She is good but isn't at the same level.

This is the complete opposite, where I am going "Wow, that's very impressive" and "Wow, how did she manage to do that?" About every 5 seconds. As I said, your mileage might vary. As I've said, Kostner could not skate Medvedeva's program, and I'm not talking about jump content. Whereas literally anyone could skate Kostner's program. Not counting step sequences.

 

[readernick]

I'm really not a huge fan of the interpretation or choreo. Why does it make sense to keep smiling when performing supposedly sad / emotional choreo? It just doesn't work and she has the same facial expression always. She also flails which is a big no-no for me. But that's up to personal tastes so I guess I wouldn't argue that.

I think she doesn't display the skating skills or transitions to deserve those marks, specifically. In my opinion, "having" high skating skills isn't enough, you also need to "display" them.

Opening -> first jump -> second jump there's only one "bracket(starting on two foot)" and tons of completely empty two-foot skating. "If she has such good glide why does she need to perform so many crossovers all the time?" Even the connecting choctaws to the second jump, are they even there? She certainly doesn't stay on one foot for longer than a split-second. The thing is, because of her step sequence I know she can do this stuff properly so why doesn't she display this in between the elements? And that also is why I think skaters should need to -display- the skating skills instead of just taking a few laps around the rink and going "Well, my name is Carolina Kostner, I'll get high SS anyway". If her glide's so good why does she need to stay on 2 feet doing nothing for extended periods of time? If her basic skating is so good why does she need to crossover all the time?

I think she's immensely overrated but your mileage might vary. If you have skating skills, please display them.

You are indeed welcome to your opinion of her intrepretation. I don't understand how you see her beautiful arm positions are flailing but that is again your right. Certainly, I think most skaters would not agree with you but it is highly subjective

But, she does display her SS.
SS are often "displayed" by how well you pick up speed in your elements. Carolina picks up speed from almost every element, every turn, and her speed and ice coverage are unrivaled. Even if you don't like Carolina, I don't think you can objectively not realize her SS are amazing.