Knierim and Frazier hit with lawsuit for use of song

[gsk8]

Feel free to retweet.

 

[Moxiejan]

So do the Animals get royalties if it really is a public domain song?

Since it really is a public-domain song, The Animals do not get a songwriting credit. The band’s arrangement, which changed the time signature from 4/4 to 6/8 and had an opening riff that “borrowed” (aka stole) from Bob Dylan’s, is covered & gets royalties.

 

[reneerose]

So basically it's just a dispute with the cover artists not getting fees from NBC/Comcast directly. I read that there are 3rd party companies that help artists get paid by network TV for fees to use the cover recordings if they are background used...i.e. figure skating. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/655360/olympic-figure-skaters-program-music-license

 

[Ladskater]

Team USA skaters Alexa Knierim, Brandon Frazier sued for song use at Beijing Olympics

Heavy Young Heathens accused the skaters, along with NBC and U.S. Figure Skating, of using the song “House of the Rising Sun” without permission.

sports.yahoo.com

Team USA figure skaters Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazier were hit with a lawsuit this week by a music group for their use of their version of “House of the Rising Sun” during the Winter Olympics in Beijing.

In all the years I've followed the sport, I've never heard of this happening. Have you? I'm not even aware of a process for asking for "permission," although that of course doesn't mean there isn't one.

Looks like the group resides in California, and since K/F do too, the group is being "opportunistic" - especially since they waited until the Olympics. The group should be thrilled for the "free" promotion which would inevitably enhance sales and presence.

Your thoughts?

Actually House of the Rising Sun was a huge mega hit in 1964 for the rock group the Animals. It's still their quintessential song and no one can touch them for their version. I don't know whose version K/F used but the song is a traditional song and has been recorded by many artists. I don't know why this group from California think they can sue for a song that's already been around for many years. Maybe Eric Burdon of the Animals could shed some light on this....

 

[reneerose]

Actually House of the Rising Sun was a huge mega hit in 1964 for the rock group the Animals. It's still their quintessential song and no one can touch them for their version. I don't know whose version K/F used but the song is a traditional song and has been recorded by many artists. I don't know why this group from California think they can sue for a song that's already been around for many years. Maybe Eric Burdon of the Animals could shed some light on this....

That's why I think the judge will throw their case out. I mean if NBC already pays broadcast blanket fees for music then I would think this group would have a deal with the third party company to get their synch/mechanical royalty fee from NBC. And interesting, that this song was also covered by Dolly Parton being a folk song covered as you say by many artists over the years.

 

[Shayuki]

It's kind of curious, since I'd imagine that the publicity Olympics brings is something that one would even pay big money for, so suing for it seems backwards. But that's how I've always felt about music copyright.

 

[twirlingaround]

Can we skip the comments about " anyways, this cover sucks or the musicians suck" I find it quite unfair to the artists who deserve respect for their work. The skaters certainly saw some value in it. Do I agree that this lawsuit is an attempt for publicity ... yes. But that still doesn't make comments about the music itself fair.

They sound like money grabbers and should be called the sleezy heavens

 

[Charlotte 71]

Can we skip the comments about " anyways, this cover sucks or the musicians suck" I find it quite unfair to the artists who deserve respect for their work. The skaters certainly saw some value in it. Do I agree that this lawsuit is an attempt for publicity ... yes. But that still doesn't make comments about the music itself fair.

You are right. My bad on my OP. I just don't like to see our pair, who are already probably worried about finances and funding for their training, distracted by what appears to be a junky lawsuit - junky because what financial or reputational harm could have possibly come to them from A/B's use of their music? Probably the opposite - I had to go find the song on youtube and see if it would grow on me at all - it didn't - but the comments were active for the first time in three years. Cha-ching. And as for the music itself, this overwrought cover is not my bag - you know how the kids call something "fire" if they like it? Well, I want to reclaim that word and call it fire, but in a bad way, as in out of control and needing to be doused before it consumed everything around it - but of course that is just my opinion. I respect the creative effort and the protection of artists' rights. This is just an overreach.

 

[skatedreamer]

Even though pairs skating isn't that popular in the US these days, K/F have been using this program all season. It's true that the Olys have far greater exposure, but I still can't help thinking that somebody would have noticed/heard about the song and told the group about it before now.

It just seems odd that they chose this particular moment to file a lawsuit, unless it's to take advantage of NBC's deep pockets.

 

[Seven Sisters]

They sound like money grabbers and should be called the sleezy heavens

I don’t think that’s fair. There is nothing wrong with an artist wanting to be compensated if someone uses their work. Alexa & Brandon/NBC/whoever should promptly pay these artists fair compensation for the use that has already occurred and then, promptly change to different music going forward.

One unexpected benefit of all the news coverage—a far larger audience now knows who Alexa & Brandon are! Maybe US pairs skating will gain a few new fans.

 

[yume]

Lol.

 

[skatedreamer]

I don’t think that’s fair. There is nothing wrong with an artist wanting to be compensated if someone uses their work. Alexa & Brandon/NBC/whoever should promptly pay these artists fair compensation for the use that has already occurred and then, promptly change to different music going forward.

One unexpected benefit of all the news coverage—a far larger audience now knows who Alexa & Brandon are! Maybe US pairs skating will gain a few new fans.

Yes, they should pay if the group wins the lawsuit.

As for changing their music, Worlds are a month away. Changing their music could require a whole new program. Is that what you expect? A more realistic approach would be to settle with the group and get the rights to continue using the music for the rest of this season.

New fans...I'm all for it but not for this reason. Pairs skating deserves fans because it's beautiful and thrilling, not for the bad publicity generated by this legal soap opera.

 

[lesnar001]

Even though pairs skating isn't that popular in the US these days, K/F have been using this program all season. It's true that the Olys have far greater exposure, but I still can't help thinking that somebody would have noticed/heard about the song and told the group about it before now.

It just seems odd that they chose this particular moment to file a lawsuit, unless it's to take advantage of NBC's deep pockets.

If I had to guess....
A) Nobody in their "inner circle" follows Figure Skating, but someone watching the Olympics happened to hear their music being used.
B) They filed the lawsuit now, knowing it would generate much more publicity than it would at any other time.

I tried to be careful with my wording, since I don't want to find myself named in a lawsuit for "defamation of character" or anything.

One thing I'm curious about is how Knierm/Frazier ended up choosing this particular version of "House of the Rising Sun" in the first place, since the group isn't even well known.

 

[Jaana]

I don´t like this new version of "The House of The Rising Sun" at all, prefer the old one by Animals...

 

[el henry]

I don’t think that’s fair. There is nothing wrong with an artist wanting to be compensated if someone uses their work. Alexa & Brandon/NBC/whoever should promptly pay these artists fair compensation for the use that has already occurred and then, promptly change to different music going forward.

One unexpected benefit of all the news coverage—a far larger audience now knows who Alexa & Brandon are! Maybe US pairs skating will gain a few new fans.

But all indications are that the proper parties probably have paid for their use. At least, I would be knocked over with a feather if the venues had not obtained the appropriate blanket permissions.

Their father filing at least the third lawsuit that I could find ( against different entities in different situations) looking for a payday. I don't consider that an artist wanting to be compensated.

And I don't like the cover at all, but, unpopular opinion, Eric Burdon and the Animals didn't knock my socks off either

 

[yume]

Other artists as Sofi Tukker (Higuchi) or Yasmin Levy (Zagitova) do shout-outs on social media when they want some promotion. Not a whole lawsuit. Either they desesperally want attention or they need money.
No wonder there so many uses of warhorses. Who would file a lawsuit for Tchaikovsky's music?

 

[reneerose]

BTW when a figure skater chooses a piece of music for their program that's a cover of the original song, don't they sometimes try not to use the original song because the royalty fees are higher than those for using a cover of the original? I never really understood that. And it's not the skaters per se that pay the rights fees, it really is on the broadcast network or the skating federation that picks those up.

That's why you hear so many covers of original songs instead of the original song itself in skating programs. Except in certain cases. Part of Nathan's FS music were snips from the covers recorded by Taron Edgerton from the recent Rocketman 2019 movie soundtrack and Wakaba Higuchi used a cover of Elton John's "Your Song" and not the original recorded track itself.

 

[moonvine]

This is awful.

 

[karne]

I'm guessing that Alexa and Brandon, and their coaches, made the understandable assumption that the music was covered under the usual licensing agreements - or perhaps made an error when looking it up; I mean, House of the Rising Sun has several dozen covers out there of varying quality, they might have thought they found it on a list and mistaken it for another band's cover. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt there.

I'm all for artists getting proper royalties for use of their music, and that's why skating has the setup that it does to cover the skaters with the licensing agreements at rinks and broadcasters.

But between dad the lawyer, the previous multiple suits, and this only coming out at the Olympics...well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a frivolous lawsuit looking for a quick buck out of NBC.

 

[skatedreamer]

I'm guessing that Alexa and Brandon, and their coaches, made the understandable assumption that the music was covered under the usual licensing agreements - or perhaps made an error when looking it up; I mean, House of the Rising Sun has several dozen covers out there of varying quality, they might have thought they found it on a list and mistaken it for another band's cover. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt there.

I'm all for artists getting proper royalties for use of their music, and that's why skating has the setup that it does to cover the skaters with the licensing agreements at rinks and broadcasters.

But between dad the lawyer, the previous multiple suits, and this only coming out at the Olympics...well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a frivolous lawsuit looking for a quick buck out of NBC.

I think you’ve got all your ducks in a row. And quacking in unison.
Hoping dad’s ducks don’t get the NBC bucks!