Plushenko's Return

[Buttercup]

Just to clarify, what I disliked about Torino was not that Plushenko won. I do think he was uninspired and overmarked, but his gold medal was definitely well-deserved.

My point was that the rest of the field was so awful, and that's not what any fan wants to see at a competition, let alone the Olympics. IIRC, when Lambiel finished his LP the Eurosport broadcasters said that if that performance won him a medal, it'll be a disappointing night of skating - and as it turned out, he did enough for the silver.

Plushenko's tango program from the link on this thread was really boring - I'm not a fan of his and never was, but usually he's at least interesting. If that's the best he can come up with, I think he'll prefer to stay retired.

 

[antmanb]

A new video from Chemnitz.

http://www.dresden-fernsehen.de/default.aspx?ID=1988&showNews=286714

Well his jumps are certainly looking very good in that clip - definitely a triple lutz there and easy 3T/3T and 3R. I suppose the flip might not be included just yet as he might be trying to fix the taking off edge so he doesn't lip. The question is whether the 3A and 4T are also being worked on and how they are.

In terms of the footwork i like the fact that he actually slows down when the music does. One of my major criticisms in the past was that he would execute frenetic, arm-flailing, head-banging movements to sections where the music was much slower than the rest and it made no sense in terms of choregraphy and interpretation.

Bottom line - if he gets his jumps back and his consistency, the judges will award him the PCS and he can walk away with further world/olympic titles. Regaining the jumps and consistency is a big if, and another is whether his knees will hold out - he's had several operations and his body might just give out before he gets to the Olympics again.

Ant

 

[Big Deal]

Did you find this program interesting in any way ?
I'm not . The usual skating-stopover-headshaking-pose-skating. etc.
Sad.

I hope he is not coming back to compete because that will revitalize the usual "Russian maffia", who gave PCS like almost 9,0 at the Olympics in 2006 for a skater who couldn't even do a proper sitspin....
Please, not. I want to see a fair Olympic finally!

 

[seniorita]

yes, of course..russia mafia...thats what made plushenko a consistent champion...
how i missed this?

 

[bekalc]

Did you find this program interesting in any way ?
I'm not . The usual skating-stopover-headshaking-pose-skating. etc.
Sad.

I hope he is not coming back to compete because that will revitalize the usual "Russian maffia", who gave PCS like almost 9,0 at the Olympics in 2006 for a skater who couldn't even do a proper sitspin....
Please, not. I want to see a fair Olympic finally!

Right it was the Russian mafia that gave him the win.. Who cares that the silver medalist fell and couldn't land a triple axel. And the bronze medalist also fell and didn't land a quad, and fell in the short too. Maybe Plush's PCS were high but he didn't need any help to win when the other guys can't land their jumps. If anything the PCS were the judges feeling Plushenko was the best and deserved the gold and trying to make sure it happened. Even though it was completely unnecessary.

 

[Mafke]

Maybe Plush's PCS were high but he didn't need any help to win when the other guys can't land their jumps. If anything the PCS were the judges feeling Plushenko was the best and deserved the gold and trying to make sure it happened. Even though it was completely unnecessary.

Fair point about the PCS's. The thing is the judges aren't supposed to judge that way and are guilty of malpractice even if they got the right skater on top. The judges job (under the current system) is to add up the numbers and leave their hopes about who should win to the computer. This was supposed to save skating ..... remember?

I've written before that Plushenko deserved to win both the SP and LP, but honestly both programs bored me silly. I thought Lambiel, Buttel, Lysacek, Savoie and even Weir had more enjoyable and interesting LP's. Under 6.0 I'd have placed him first despite my disliking his programs. Under CoP the jump scores would keep him on top probably though I'd hammer his kneelspin and the choreography and transitions scores would have been as low as I thought I could get away with.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Aside from his boring routine at Olyls and his faulty errors, he won the whole contest. It was for me, one of the worst men's competitions ever. They should have given him silver and no one get the gold.

Be prepared if he does comeback, it will be more of the same.

 

[Mafke]

They should have given him (Plushenko: mafke) silver and no one get the gold.
Be prepared if he does comeback, it will be more of the same.

To be fair, if he got the silver (with no gold awarded) then there shouldn't be a bronze medal either (and a crowded pewter step with Lambiel, Buttle, Savoie and Weir).

 

[seniorita]

They should have given him silver and no one get the gold.Be prepared if he does comeback, it will be more of the same.

why exactly he shouldnt get the gold, because you didnt like his programs?..lol
I dont get it, some find him boring, some exciting...So?
Or because he didnt have a good sit spin?Where is written that the Olympic Champion has to have the best sit spin, so he has to have also..maybe a quad and a triple axel?
Maybe it was the worst competition because eveybody else didnt deliver even a decent program,very interesting yes, but it is still a sport and that way, it was disapointing that night.And plushenko's godfather was not the best he had skated either.
But it is a competition, his skating was the best comparing to the others' and usually this is the deal for the winner..
I hear about marks of skaters all the time...Judges marks are not a skaters fault...unless you believe plushenko acted like the real Godfather there.lol

 

[Blades of Passion]

You should watch someone's feet to see rotation.

But, you do see his head rotate 3 times. All that hair and the dark lighting just confuses it.

I'll take Robin Cousin's advice for watching the head for counting rotations of jumps all the same, and i remain unchanged in my view that it was double in that show.

Ant

Wow, you're being woefully ignorant. Please stop.

Look again (second jump pass, enters in at 1:15):

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=0UmelX0D-rw

Since you don't seem to be able to see it in real time, pause the video after he is in the air. He is facing forward, there's 1 rotation. Press play and then immediately pause. His head is all the way around again, but he's still high in the air and his body tightly wrapped. He just did rotation #2 and is obviously still going - quickly unpause and then pause the video again and you'll see the third rotation.

In real time, you can see his face 3 times after he jumps anyway if watching very intently. Like I said, it's confusing with all that hair he has and the dark lightning.

Or, you could just look at his feet and clearly see that they are spinning the amount that results from a great Triple. (thanks for letting me know about Robin Cousin's advice but, last I checked, where the feet leave and land on the ice is what determines how completely rotated a jump is. I think I'll side with the laws of Physics)

Hopefully that helps?

 

[antmanb]

Wow, you're being woefully ignorant. Please stop.

And you are being stupidly rude. I've looked at it every which way including the pausing and i'm certain it's a double - you disagree. There's really nothing left to say on the matter.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

why exactly he shouldnt get the gold, because you didnt like his programs?..lol

In my estimation of the Senior Division Olympics, he did not meet the minimum standards. His performance that night lacked luster befitting a Senior champ.

Giving him the silver would have meant that he skated the best that night but did not come up to the gold standard.

 

[seniorita]

In my estimation of the Senior Division Olympics, he did not meet the minimum standards. His performance that night lacked luster befitting a Senior champ.
Giving him the silver would have meant that he skated the best that night but did not come up to the gold standard.

!!
Since Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, Plushenko had lost just twice in international competitions. He had bounced back from double hernia surgery and a groin injury the previous year. Nevertheless, that night he landed 4-3-2 combo and ...and..and....hmmm if he was not to be the OC, then who should?
Ok I stop..I m not sure we speak about the same skater...

Dont fight about his 2 or 3 rotations jump, in this and his next shows he has landed 3-3 and lots of triples with ease and just in the spotlight of a show, so it doesnt matter!!!

 

[Blades of Passion]

And you are being stupidly rude. I've looked at it every which way including the pausing and i'm certain it's a double - you disagree. There's really nothing left to say on the matter.

Ant

Sorry, but you're simply doing it wrong. You are incorrect and it's really annoying that someone is telling me the equivalent of 2 + 2 = 5. I will put this jump into a slow-motion program for you.

 

[Mathman]

This argument between Antman and Blades of Passion gives me new respect for the judges and technical specialists. If two experienced and enthuasiastic observers can't agree as to whether a jump is a double or a triple, even after playing the tape over and over in slow motion and stop-frame, think about all the split-second decisions that officials have to make that determine the outcome of a competition.

I went to a club benefit show a couple of months ago and wrote up a little report, full of glowing praise for all the double Axels and other feats the young skaters put out there. Later a more experienced viewer told me that none of the skaters in the show did a double Axel, only singles (except headliner Yuka Sato. )

 

[MasterB]

I would love to see him back in the circuit again. He would add drama to the event.

This tango program looked really nice. He does seem a little overweight (about 20 pounds) he could probable loose with more training.

I didn't have a problem with him winning the Olympics except that I didn't think he should have been that far ahead of the competition in points. With the exception of the two step sequences he barely had any transitional moves between elements. Stephane's programs were loaded with steps and transitional moves throughout the program, for example.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I didn't have a problem with him winning the Olympics except that I didn't think he should have been that far ahead of the competition in points. With the exception of the two step sequences he barely had any transitional moves between elements. Stephane's programs were loaded with steps and transitional moves throughout the program, for example.

That's what all connoisseurs discuss when music is playing. One form (Evgeni) is to do big tricks and pose to the audience; the other form (Stephane) is to dance throughout his routine.

I doubt Evgeni could skater a Lambiel routine.

 

[Mafke]

On the jump in question, it can be very hard on youtube to tell about jumps, the resolution and speed of the image just isn't that good.

But it looks like a double to me. For it to be a triple he'd have to do the first revolution almost on the ground really, really fast and then s l o w d o w n in the air. There's something about the beginning that kind of gives it kind of a triple look but it really looks like a double in terms of speed in the air and landing.

But again I wouldn't bet a nickel either way, the picture quality just isn't good enough.

 

[Hsuhs]

I've dl a larger version from fsvids. It's a 3Z.
I use a freeware called Light Alloy:
http://www.light-alloy.ru/download/

 

[museksk8r]

I doubt Evgeni could skate a Lambiel routine.

I definitely agree!