2013 Worlds Ladies SP

garnetgem · Mar 14, 2013

daniel1406 said:
okay... warm greeting from one of figure skating fans from Australia

I had to get up at 4am to watch ladies sp.

To be honest, I'm so disgusted about the judges.

I missed group 1 and 2.

But in group 3 and 4, there were some skaters (sorry I forgot their names) who deserves much higher score.

And what the hell is wrong with Kim's score? it's so underscored (considering other top skaters).

"e" on her flip? I looked perfectly fine. But if the tech judge were to give "e" her on flip, why didn't she give "e" on Osmond's ? Kim's 3F got -0.2 GOE.
I wonder if the tech judge was the one who was so strict only on Kim's 3F before. I'm pretty sure, it was the same judge.

Also, Murakami's TES is higher than Kim's? - since when 3T-3T, 3F and 2A scores higher than 3Lz-3T, 3F and 2A (In my opinion, even with "e" Yuna should've got a higher TES than Murakami's) -_-

In regards to Kim's PCS, Kostner's PCS is higher than hers - which doesn't really make sense to me at all.

Lastly, Mao's two foot landed 3A got +0.14 GOE? This is just ridiculous. I like Mao and I want to see beautiful 3As in her programs (btw I DO love her FS this year). But it was just wrong to get +GOE on that 3A in her sp.

Therefore, in my opinion, Yuna Kim's score should've been 73 - 74.

She was definitely underscored

... I expected her to get around 72 (maybe 73) with that program. I was surprised that she got that 'e' on her flip :S. I think the judges were a little harsh on Yuna. I mean Mao got +GOE for her two-footed, URed 3A and Carolina... well do I need to explain?

shine · Mar 14, 2013

daniel1406 said:
In regards to Kim's PCS, Kostner's PCS is higher than hers - which doesn't really make sense to me at all.

Why? Because Yuna Kim is a heavenly creature? :laugh:

To be honest, Kostner is currently head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS. People need to get out of their pre-2010 mind set where Kim had the unwavering love from judges on PCS. Those days are gone. She's great, but not THAT great. I see no reason for her PCS to be a notch above the other top contenders, especially now.

katymay · Mar 14, 2013

goldenskate999 said:
After highly anticipated ladies short programs, here are my thoughts:
1. Yuna Kim needs to change her choreographer, is it just me or did anyone feel that her "Kiss of Vampire" was just too boring? Didn't really like the music either. As far as element goes, she looked good considering the fact that she was off the ice for 19 months. Slight undermark on pts was expected since she was going so early but less pressure on her so they even out imo. Without the deduction from her single triple-L (and if she nailed it, she would've received GOE) she would've easily made over 70. (Around 72 or so, can't complain really)
2. Mao Asada, again breaks down. How many times have we seen this? Again and again, I'm having doubts on Mao when it comes to big competition against big names. I would, for once, love to see her clean program but my expectations are low on this happening.
3. Carolina Kostner really seems like she's found her groove w/ artistry. Did she get lucky w/ her score today? Absolutely, a fall is a fall but sometimes you have to get lucky too. Good Job.

I don't think Asada was that bad, in fact, I would have put her 2nd to Yuna. Asada's footwork, for example, is exquisite. The axel, even if two footed, etc., was also beautiful.
As far as Yuna, the problem isn't the choreography, it is her lack of a facial expression, her lack of joy or anything at all that tells me she really wants to be there on the ice. I would much rather watch any of the three Japanese ladies who have perfected the fine art of selling a program. (As in SMILE!).
Carolina Kostner owns the ice when she is skating, even when she falters. I understand where the high scores come from, really I do.
Ashley has made a great deal of improvement in softening her arms, and lordy, that flip was huge and beautiful. I would rather see a double tacked on at the end rather than a tiny sloppy triple.

prettykeys · Mar 14, 2013

The new hip thrust

Lori Nichol has blessed both Patrick Chan and Carolina Kostner with epileptic hand shaking; in Chan's Phantom LP and Kostner's SP this year. Maybe that is the secret to getting high PCS - it is a major choreographic gem.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 14, 2013

shine said:
To be honest, Kostner is currently head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS. People need to get out of their pre-2010 mind set where Kim had the unwavering love from judges on PCS. Those days are gone. She's great, but not THAT great. I see no reason for her PCS to be a notch above the other top contenders, especially now.

Hey, why not save her the effort of having to jump then, and just have her skate and still beat everyone. Clearly jumping ability doesn't matter if you're a stronger skater in general.

Kim is less than the skater she was in 2010, but she still pulled out the hardest jump layout of anyone in that SP. The hardest 3-3, and a 3F as her solo jump (when she could have gone for a more consistent 3S).

Kudos to Mao for the 3A, but that 2-foot with +GOE is ridiculous. There is a lot to be desired from the judging. Some of the veteran skaters, especially in the final flight were given GOE gifts like it was Christmas.

Art&Sport · Mar 14, 2013

shine said:
Why? Because Yuna Kim is a heavenly creature?

To be honest, Kostner is currently head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS. People need to get out of their pre-2010 mind set where Kim had the unwavering love from judges on PCS. Those days are gone. She's great, but not THAT great. I see no reason for her PCS to be a notch above the other top contenders, especially now.

Ha ha! You like Kostner and don't care as much for Yu Na. How's about the fact that if Yu Na stands up and skates like she can skate, she's gonna win! She has just been out for two years and the judges weren't so willing to over-score her here as they did for Patrick. Interesting sport, as we already know who the gold medal winners will be in all four disciplines. Who can honestly say that V/T, Patrick, Yu Na, and V/M are not going to win gold? I'll be hugely surprised if D/W win without V/M stopping in the middle of their program again.

Yes, shine, so all of our opinions are mostly subjective and biased toward whom we like, or whom we honestly feel some emotional connection to in watching their skating. The rules are just too arbitrary at the moment. I'm sure many of the judges are trying to do an unbiased professional job, but the regulations are not very helpful and the scoring re technical caller and rules changes regarding falls, rotations, pops just too piecemeal and complicated. Overlay all of this with the unavoidable and obvious politics, and no wonder there is confusion and debate regarding many of the marks.

Like I said before, if Worlds were taking place right now in Russia, or in Japan, you can betcha a lot of the outcome of these scores would be quite different.

daniel1406 · Mar 14, 2013

shine said:
Why? Because Yuna Kim is a heavenly creature?

To be honest, Kostner is currently head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS. People need to get out of their pre-2010 mind set where Kim had the unwavering love from judges on PCS. Those days are gone. She's great, but not THAT great. I see no reason for her PCS to be a notch above the other top contenders, especially now.

With all the respect, No she is not a heavenly creature. And I agree with that Kostner has been head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS so far. But I'm talking about this 2013 Worlds only. With her sp (especially with a fall on her 3Loop), do you really think she deserves a higher PCS than Yuna's?

cheerio2 · Mar 14, 2013

I thought Caro's score was ridiculous.

Didn't think Mao should have gotten any positive GOE's on the 3A because of the two foot, but it looked rotated. Her spins seemed slower than usual.

I thought Yuna's score was about right. Her jumps were amazing, but her spins seemed slower, and footwork and choreo didn't seem up to her usual standard.

Murakami I would have had second and Osmond third behind Yuna. I really enjoyed both their skates.

Krislite · Mar 14, 2013

Yuna needs to get Lori to choreograph for her. It seems David's political clout is slipping.

Mao88 · Mar 14, 2013

LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Yuna KIM (KOR) - 69.97 Short Program, 2nd Copy
2. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA) - 66.86 Short Program
3. Kanako MURAKAMI (JPN) - 66.64 Short Program
4. Kaetlyn OSMOND (CAN) - 64.73 Short Program
5. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 63.98 Short Program
6. Mao ASADA (JPN) - 62.10 Short Program
7. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 61.17 Short Program
8. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 59.62 Short Program
9. Gracie GOLD (USA) - 58.85
10. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE) - 58.36 Short Program
11. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 56.90 Short Program
12. Zijun LI (CHN) - 56.31 Short Program
13. Alena LEONOVA (RUS) - 56.30 Short Program
14. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 54.72 Short Program
15. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 54.59
16. Sonia LAFUENTE (ESP) - 52.44
17. Natalia POPOVA (UKR) - 51.67
18. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 51.23
19. Monika SIMANCIKOVA (SVK) - 51.18
20. Brooklee HAN (AUS) - 50.62 Short Program
21. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA) - 50.41 Short Program
22. Kerstin FRANK (AUT) - 49.66 Short Program
23. Kexin ZHANG (CHN) - 48.80 Short Program
24. Nathalie WEINZIERL (GER) - 48.14 Short program
25. Isadora WILLIAMS (BRA) - 46.63 Short Program
26. Anita MADSEN (DEN) - 46.16 Short Program
27. Carol BRESSANUTTI (ITA) - 44.51 Short Program
28. Kaat VAN DAELE (BEL) - 42.51
29. Elene GEDEVANISHVILI (GEO) - 42.40
30. Tina STUERZINGER (SUI) - 42.36 Short Program
31. Juulia TURKKILA (FIN) - 40.70 Short Program
32. Anne Line GJERSEM (NOR) - 38.53 Short Program
33. Inga JANULEVICIUTE (LTU) - 36.79 Short Program
34. Patricia GLESCIC (SLO) - 36.66 Short Program
35. Alina FJODOROVA (LAT) - 36.44 Short Program

MiRé · Mar 14, 2013

katymay said:
I don't think Asada was that bad, in fact, I would have put her 2nd to Yuna. Asada's footwork, for example, is exquisite. The axel, even if two footed, etc., was also beautiful.
As far as Yuna, the problem isn't the choreography, it is her lack of a facial expression, her lack of joy or anything at all that tells me she really wants to be there on the ice. I would much rather watch any of the three Japanese ladies who have perfected the fine art of selling a program. (As in SMILE!).
Carolina Kostner owns the ice when she is skating, even when she falters. I understand where the high scores come from, really I do.
Ashley has made a great deal of improvement in softening her arms, and lordy, that flip was huge and beautiful. I would rather see a double tacked on at the end rather than a tiny sloppy triple.

Do you expect a person who's bitten by a vampire to be all joyful?
Come on now, this isn't Twilight.

jan · Mar 14, 2013

Finally, a voice of reason, although I did feel Carolina's program was outstanding and was a showcase of her outstanding skating skills.

cheerio2 said:
I thought Caro's score was ridiculous.

Didn't think Mao should have gotten any positive GOE's on the 3A because of the two foot, but it looked rotated. Her spins seemed slower than usual.

I thought Yuna's score was about right. Her jumps were amazing, but her spins seemed slower, and footwork and choreo didn't seem up to her usual standard.

Murakami I would have had second and Osmond third behind Yuna. I really enjoyed both their skates.

yuki · Mar 14, 2013

Melon said:
Do you expect a person who's bitten by a vampire to be all joyful?
Come on now, this isn't Twilight.

Her expression was adequate for the theme of her program, but the problem is that this kind of style is not a natural fit for her performance ability. Sassy and/or fierce Yuna (a la Danse Macabre, Bond SP) is better than angsty Yuna (Giselle, Kiss of the Vampire) IMO.

MiRé · Mar 14, 2013

Just found something ridiculous.

Skating Skills 7.00 7.00 7.25 7.25 8.00 7.50 7.75 7.25 6.50
Transition / Linking Footwork 0.80 6.75 6.75 7.00 7.00 8.75 7.50 7.75 6.75 6.00 7.07
Performance / Execution 0.80 7.25 7.50 7.25 7.50 8.00 8.00 8.25 7.00 6.25 7.50
Choreography / Composition 0.80 7.25 7.25 7.00 7.50 8.50 7.50 8.25 7.25 6.50 7.43
Interpretation 0.80 7.50 7.50 7.25 7.50 9.00 8.00 8.50 7.25 6.25 7.64

This is Osmond's PCS score sheet.
You can clearly see...............something odd about this score...
Such as a random 9 in between 7.5's.....
hmmmmmmmmmm judges hmmmmmmmmmmmm

MiRé · Mar 14, 2013

yuki said:
Her expression was adequate for the theme of her program, but the problem is that this kind of style is not a natural fit for her performance ability. Sassy and/or fierce Yuna (a la Danse Macabre, Bond SP) is better than angsty Yuna (Giselle, Kiss of the Vampire) IMO.

totally agree with you on that point

yuki · Mar 14, 2013

Melon said:
Just found something ridiculous.

Skating Skills 7.00 7.00 7.25 7.25 8.00 7.50 7.75 7.25 6.50
Transition / Linking Footwork 0.80 6.75 6.75 7.00 7.00 8.75 7.50 7.75 6.75 6.00 7.07
Performance / Execution 0.80 7.25 7.50 7.25 7.50 8.00 8.00 8.25 7.00 6.25 7.50
Choreography / Composition 0.80 7.25 7.25 7.00 7.50 8.50 7.50 8.25 7.25 6.50 7.43
Interpretation 0.80 7.50 7.50 7.25 7.50 9.00 8.00 8.50 7.25 6.25 7.64

This is Osmond's PCS score sheet.
You can clearly see...............something odd about this score...
Such as a random 9 in between 7.5's.....
hmmmmmmmmmm judges hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I'm not completely sure about this, but I believe that the highest and the lowest grade for each component are discarded. While that 9 for IN was overly enthusiastic, the 6.25 was totally uncalled for, so I guess it evens out.

berrycute · Mar 14, 2013

If you think (as many here do, I see) that Kostner is being held up despite mistakes, you have to ask, WHY? She comes from a middle sized country without any of the weight of the Japanese, US, Canadian or Russian feds, and her coach isn't a know mover and shaker like TAT, Frank Carroll or Mishin. I don't think she benefits from any behind the scenes advantages. More likely, I think, is that the judges are holding up beautiful skating, which she is delivering right now. A fall in an otherwise beautiful program might just be preferable to a clean but dull and I-can't-be-bothered program from some other skater. I for one am glad they continue to reward artistic innovation and beautiful line. Otherwise all we'd have is a bunch of girls in gloves and body suits squeezing out triple triples while some generic tango music plays unnoticed in the background.

demarinis5 · Mar 14, 2013

Congrats to Yuna, Caro and Kanako. I have no problem with their placements.

For me the most improved skater was Mae Berniece of France. I really enjoyed her SP. She got a SB and I hope she can hold
on in the FS and place top ten. GO Mae!

Alvyne · Mar 14, 2013

Art&Sport said:
How do you know that every single judge doesn't care at all? Politics is rampant in the sport. Obviously, KO has talent, and if she continues to prove that she's a cool competitor, she will be given the moon because judges love when skaters go out there and prove them right. Of course, they also love Patrick's SS regardless of how poorly he may perform on occasion.

And, Hint Hint: Sonjia Henie wins 10 straight World gold medals, not without controversy in some of those wins. In her first win she received first place ordinals from 3 of the 5 Norwegian judges, and in later years there were controversial wins at Worlds and Olympics for Henie. Artur Gachinski wins bronze at World championships in Moscow; Stefan Lindemann wins bronze at World championships in Germany; Evan Lysacek wins gold at World championships in Los Angeles. There are many other examples, of course.

Inflated medal win for Gachinski who skated okay, but not great enough to make the podium his first year in seniors. Stefan Lindemann was a good skater with great height on his jumps, but over-rated and over-achieving and lucky to be skating in his home country that year. Lysacek is a good to average skater with a great coach and fed behind him who over-achieved and got lucky during the non-quad requirement years. Too bad that Chan had foot-in-mouth disease at that 2009 World championships trying to put Baboo down. I've always felt Chan was the better skater at 2009 Worlds overall, but he just got too ahead of himself and was too full of himself with all the over-hype from up North.

You can't take the politics and the subjectivity out of figure skating. Too bad that the artistry and meaningful performance aspects are being taken out.

Oh I know about politicking and subjectivity and all that, but since the beginning of this competition, most of your posts are about how the Canadian skatesr don't deserve the marks they get, when it's absolutely not true. Everyone has skated lights out, and their marks reflect that, too bad the favorites made mistakes, underotated their jumps or fell.

What I really want to know is what do you have against Canadian skaters? And I really don't think Skate Canada is that powerful a federation to do all the politicking you're talking about. Anyway, movin on, there is skating to watch.

Robeye · Mar 14, 2013

shine said:
Why? Because Yuna Kim is a heavenly creature?

To be honest, Kostner is currently head and shoulders above the rest of the field in terms of PCS. People need to get out of their pre-2010 mind set where Kim had the unwavering love from judges on PCS. Those days are gone. She's great, but not THAT great. I see no reason for her PCS to be a notch above the other top contenders, especially now.

What is it with you?

The point is that Kostner had a very prominent fall. The question has been asked on this thread as to why that should matter.

From a PCS perspective, I have long (and publicly, too) maintained that a technical shortcoming becomes an aesthetic shortcoming when it significantly affects the arc, mood, flow, or design of the program, and its relationship with the music (which are all, directly or indirectly, enshrined in the PCS bullets). This is why, in my very strong opinion, a slight two-footed landing, say, or even a planned triple that is doubled, should have a lesser impact, while a splat should have far greater. Therefore, there should have been a material effect on at least PE, IN and CH.

Is there something about this critique you do not understand, and is there a reason why you seem to turn every post into an ad hominem attack on either Yuna or her fans?

2013 Worlds Ladies SP

garnetgem

shine

katymay

prettykeys

CanadianSkaterGuy

Art&Sport

daniel1406

cheerio2

Krislite

Mao88

MiRé

Match Penalty

jan

yuki

MiRé

Match Penalty

MiRé

Match Penalty

yuki

berrycute

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Alvyne

Robeye

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