I've also added the score to my score tracker on my original post.
So I don't think you would spoil things at all.
State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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I've also added the score to my score tracker on my original post.
So I don't think you would spoil things at all.
Thanks Mrs. P!
That list adds a real interesting perspective to the season so far. I think Jason's one of the only US men to skate a clean short so far, yes? Still - that score is off his personal best but is head and shoulders ahead of anyone else this season. And he did it not just in PCS but in TES too. The program is still growing on me, but I like the costume and 83.59 is SOLID for an early season skate sans quad.
It was nice to see Alexander Johnson out there too. I thought he had a beautiful program and his stroking is so wonderful to watch. He also had a really nice, easy looking triple axel. Shame about the other jumps, but I remember in an earlier article he was saying how a lot of his jumps are still elusive, but it looks like he has improved from when that article was published. You can tell he's very close - they were rotated and stood up, just tight and two footed. But hopefully with a little more time, comfort they will come back. I'm glad he's doing one for event in the CHallenger Series. It will be good to see him get more exposure before nationals. He's someone I could see make top 6 or 5 at nationals if he skates clean.
That list adds a real interesting perspective to the season so far. I think Jason's one of the only US men to skate a clean short so far, yes? Still - that score is off his personal best but is head and shoulders ahead of anyone else this season. And he did it not just in PCS but in TES too. The program is still growing on me, but I like the costume and 83.59 is SOLID for an early season skate sans quad.
It was nice to see Alexander Johnson out there too. I thought he had a beautiful program and his stroking is so wonderful to watch. He also had a really nice, easy looking triple axel. Shame about the other jumps, but I remember in an earlier article he was saying how a lot of his jumps are still elusive, but it looks like he has improved from when that article was published. You can tell he's very close - they were rotated and stood up, just tight and two footed. But hopefully with a little more time, comfort they will come back. I'm glad he's doing one for event in the CHallenger Series. It will be good to see him get more exposure before nationals. He's someone I could see make top 6 or 5 at nationals if he skates clean.
The 86.00 [45.39/40.61] was from the Olympics. His PCS as a bit lower at this competition, but not too far off. (40.09)
His TES was 43.60, a few points below his personal best SP TES, which is actually from Trophee Eric Bompard last year (45.98)
His base value was 0.6 lower here, due to a level 3 step (he had level 4 in France). His +GOE was also lower here by 1.88 points.
So there's a little room for improvement.
He scored 79.41 at Nebelhorn last year, the TES was a tad lower but the big difference is in PCS. You can either argue that he's getting the PCS he should have received before, or that he's benefiting from reputation PCS. YMMV.
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I'm curious - are scores at the Olympics generally thought to be inflated (the way people always say scores at nationals are)?
In looking at the judges protocols, it was really funny to see how harshly Judge 12 marked Jason in transitions & choreography, especially compared to the marks she gave to Voronov, Balde & Johnson, among others.
In looking at the judges protocols, it was really funny to see how harshly Judge 12 marked Jason in transitions & choreography, especially compared to the marks she gave to Voronov, Balde & Johnson, among others.
Yes, the general thought is the Olympics is thought to be inflated and people were getting record scores.
However, I'm not sure how much that will be in play for Jason. As I noted he's only a tad bit off from his PCS from the Olympics. He's probably only has maybe a few more points to gain with the program under it's current layout though and I'm not sure if 40+ PCS is the highest we'll see for him this season.
I think the future is quite "iffy" for the Americans. As a group, cf to the world, they are not a powerhouse technically. Some might win a few medals in the GP series, but I don't see a world medal in the offing.
What big tricks are the "US boys" capable of ? Brown's triple axel is still not among the best and I will be surprised if he has a quad that is reliable this season. Abbott's age will probably diminish what he can do this year.
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Thanks Mrs. P! I will definitely be interested to see where his programs and scores go this season, and am really looking forward to Tristan tomorrow.
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Jasons triple axel was beautiful in the nebelhorn sp today! More confident than I've seen it in a while. Looked so clean I almost thought it was a double at first.
Also, it's worth noting that Jason, in his first major competition of the season, has already gotten a score that beats max aaron's personal best ever for the sp, without even having a quad.onder:
Also, it's worth noting that Jason, in his first major competition of the season, has already gotten a score that beats max aaron's personal best ever for the sp, without even having a quad.
onder:
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Jasons triple axel was beautiful in the nebelhorn sp today! More confident than I've seen it in a while. Looked so clean I almost thought it was a double at first.
Also, it's worth noting that Jason, in his first major competition of the season, has already gotten a score that beats max aaron's personal best ever for the sp, without even having a quad.
It's worth noting that Max's ISU PB came with two mistakes on the quad (hand down and only a 2T combination instead of 3T) and also a fall that disrupted his step sequence. I think there were a couple of other places where Max left points on the table too (spins being one of them - he lost a level for his flying camel IIRC).
Add in those lost points and Max's score would be pretty comparable - or higher - than Jason's.
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Lol I'm aware of his mistakes. The point is that Jason and koris long term strategy involves winning without mistakes to boost GOE and PCS over the long term. Anyway, I'm a fan of both of them, so need to get upset or roll your eyes at me. Just interesting to see which strategy works and when. In a competition where people screw up and Patrick chan and yuzuru aren't around, Jason can lead. But obviously one would need max's ability to do quads to compete against the Japanese guys.
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Good to know. But since Max seems to have somehow acquired a LOT of detractors for whom he could never do anything right, I'm sure you understand why I immediately get defensive.
One of the most amusing things about the arguments in the Nebelhorn PBP thread was the people effectively arguing Jason needed to skate more like Max. Probably the same people arguing Max needs to skate more like Jason.
Can't wait for Nationals this year. I think I might be dead by the end of the LP. Imagine if Max's Gladiator, Jason's Tristan et Iseult and Joshua's Schindler's List were all clean!
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Well... I think both of them are known for strengths that often as opposed to one another: the cliche 'technician versus artist' thing. But I think they're both not given enough credit for their other mark, like I think max recently has become much more artistic... Was watching some old plushenko videos last night and feel like he's already surpassed him, at least 2010 plushenko... Oops
But yes I too will be dead at nationals this year! I've seen your other posts on here and tend to agree with you on being pro max, pro Joshua, and pro Jason... So this should be good. Maybe I'll see you there!
But yes I too will be dead at nationals this year! I've seen your other posts on here and tend to agree with you on being pro max, pro Joshua, and pro Jason... So this should be good
. Maybe I'll see you there!
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Well... I think both of them are known for strengths that often as opposed to one another: the cliche 'technician versus artist' thing. But I think they're both not given enough credit for their other mark, like I think max recently has become much more artistic... Was watching some old plushenko videos last night and feel like he's already surpassed him, at least 2010 plushenko... Oops
But yes I too will be dead at nationals this year! I've seen your other posts on here and tend to agree with you on being pro max, pro Joshua, and pro Jason... So this should be good
Heh...I love Plushy but he did let his artistry go a bit towards the end.
Alas! I shall be dead in front of my computer, possibly at stupid o'clock in the morning, or right before I go to work, watching a comp from the other side of the world...I wish I could be there!
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Oh Karne - run!!!! Escape while you can!!! How dare you say Plushy let anything go towards the end......
But........reading "Max recently has become much more artistic" had me wondering - when? Strains of Carmen still fill my ears............................
But........reading "Max recently has become much more artistic" had me wondering - when? Strains of Carmen still fill my ears............................
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I hope karne will give you her own answer -- but until then, I will note that at the SLC Classic this month, Max's SP Component and FS Component scores both were ISU PBs, for his new "Footloose" and "Gladiator" programs, respectively. :yes:
p.s. Thanks to Mrs. P for starting this thread.
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Oh Karne - run!!!! Escape while you can!!! How dare you say Plushy let anything go towards the end......
I think Plushy started letting a lot of things go once Yagudin retired. There was no-one else good enough to challenge him, so he stopped stretching himself, and did only what was necessary. By the time he realised that was was necessary was no longer quite enough, it was too late to be stretching again. And I am a very huge fan of Plushy. He was my very first skater. :yes:
I think Max has always been artistic. He's just a different kind of artistry - energy and power and excitement. His Tron program was loads of fun. And he could always hear and feel the music. I always got that sense from him. But that kind of artistry is, apparently, the "wrong" kind of artistry - because it's not like Jeremy's, or like Jason's, or like Joshua's. Watching Max doing Carmen last year made me sad, because even though he spoke lovingly and enthusiastically about the music, in the end, Lori churned out the same old dross, and he was clearly being pushed into trying to skate like someone other than himself. And that's why I'm so excited for Footloose and Gladiator, because they are Max programs, in his style, and no-one is trying to make him skate like anyone else.
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I was the one who wrote the max becoming more artistic thing - and it's based on my impressions on his new programs he debuted at the US classic in Salt Lake. And yes, I agree with karne, not sure how max gets criticized for being not artistic when you have much 'worse' (in my opinion) artistry coming from people like kovtun or even denis ten. Max is at least exciting to watch.... Again, these are my opinions ^_^
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Totally agree. I think Max is the atheltic type. He doesn't need to be the like of Patrick Chan to be considered "artistic".
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... Also, it's worth noting that Jason, in his first major competition of the season, has already gotten a score that beats max aaron's personal best ever for the sp, without even having a quad.
As a follow-up to the comparison above of the first international SP scores this season of Max and Jason, a comparison of their FS and Total scores as well
:FS:
Total scores:
Max: 161.26 = 83.46 + 78.80 - 1.00
Jason: 153.58 = 67.74 + 85.84 - 0.00
Jason: 153.58 = 67.74 + 85.84 - 0.00
Total scores:
Max: 240.22
Jason: 237.17
Jason: 237.17
Sources:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_us_intl_classic/CAT002SEG004.html
http://www.isuresults.com/results/nt2014/SEG002.HTM
http://www.isuresults.com/results/nt2014/SEG002.HTM
Wishing both Max and Jason well at their GP events. :yes:
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