2023 World Figure Skating Championships Men's Free Skate

[4everchan]

I don't think Ilia will ever be what we think of as a "beautiful" skater, but he has other strengths. He adds variety to the current group of men, filling a technical void after Nathan left and adding more with the 4A. Didn't he once have an instagram story where they asked him what was his biggest regret, and it was something like, "Thinking I have skating skills." LOL, at least the kid is aware.

In any case, I would hate for Ilia to try to conform to some subjective standard of "beautiful" skating, only for him to lose what's currently unique about him - this brash, youthful style with YOLO attitude going for all the crazy jumps that no one has been able to do, including 4A and 3Lz-3A (with a rippon on the 3A!). He has been such a fresh face and really shook up the men's discipline in a different way this year. I bought a ticket to this year's Nationals not to see Jason Brown, though he's fabulous, but for a chance to see Ilia's 4A. It didn't happen, but the 3Lz-3A-3T made up for it. I guess we all have our reasons for watching skating...

He has glaring weaknesses, yes, but I'd like to see how he tries to improve. Maybe he never gets to this "beautiful" skating 90+ point PCS ideal, but he still has something to offer in this sport, and I think he deserves his bronze medal, especially after his short program and the 4A.

Personally, I think he still has a lot to improve technically, such as cleaning up the q's and the UR calls on his current quads, and becoming more consistent over both programs. If that means having to take out 1 or 2 quads to give him more strength during his other quads while also adding in more steps, transitions, and choreography, I think we all win.

This is all fine with me... The guy on my avatar is far far away from a Patrick. Nathan or Shoma.... I like him because he is sweet and tries to better himself all the time. He cares about the sport. So, trust me, I understand what you are saying.

The problem is not Ilia and what he brings to the ice. The problem is fans wanting him to win in the current circumstances. When was the last time a world champion wasn't a complete skater? This is why many of us are discussing this... If Ilia and/or his fans want him to win, then he will have to work on ice coverage, speed, flow, posture, musicality, quality of basic stroking, choreography and connection. Can he do all of that and jump quads... I think so. It's possible. Is it difficult? Very. If he does not make it there, does that mean he shouldn't be celebrated for what he brings to the ice? definitely not. As a matter of fact, I was the one who posted a thread in the Edge when Ilia landed his first quad axel.... Ilia was celebrated for his achievements as he should be. It will be interesting to see how he develops over the years to come.

 

[cailuj365]

This is all fine with me... The guy on my avatar is far far away from a Patrick. Nathan of Shoma.... I like him because he is sweet and tries to better himself all the time. He cares about the sport. So, trust me, I understand what you are saying.

The problem is not Ilia and what he brings to the ice. The problem is fans wanting him to win in the current circumstances. When was the last time a world champion wasn't a complete skater? This is why many of us are discussing this... If Ilia and/or his fans want him to win, then he will have to work on ice coverage, speed, flow, posture, musicality, quality of basic stroking, choreography and connection. Can he do all of that and jump quads... I think so. It's possible. Is it difficult? Very. If he does not make it there, does that mean he shouldn't be celebrated for what he brings to the ice? definitely not. As a matter of fact, I was the one who posted a thread in the Edge when Ilia landed his first quad axel.... Ilia was celebrated for his achievements as he should be. It will be interesting to see how he develops over the years to come.

How interested he is in winning is actually an interesting question... As recently as GPF, they asked him whether he would rather be the first to land a quint or win the Olympics. I thought it was pretty incredible that without much thought, he said land a quint! How many elite skaters at this current level would choose that over being Olympic champion? But I thought it told a lot of what he valued in skating, and why he's been in this sport, and that's been to do crazy jumps and push boundaries.

I think Ilia may already be changing that viewpoint though, especially after seeing the disappointment on his face with his marks and with some of the statements he's made to the media already. He clearly cares and wants to improve, and I think he definitely wants to be champion one day. Interestingly, he says a lot about trying to improve his "performance," but to me, he's already a pretty good performer and showman when he's feeling it. His weaknesses are more stroking, choreography, flow, so we'll see how (if) he improves there.

 

[emilinkaa]

But I like figure skating more than I like other sports, with the exception of gymnastics. Just because my reasons for enjoying the sport are different than yours doesn't mean I'm wasting my time or that I'm not a fan. I feel exhilarated when I see a difficult jump or combination landed or a program with perfectly landed jumps and god knows figure skating has increased my knowledge of music, which is also one of my favorite things. I also like seeing different dance styles in ice dancing and interesting positions on lifts in pairs. I also like interesting transitions, which is one of the few things I do understand about PCS. It's why I loved Matt Savoie.

My dad has watched skating off and on since Scott Hamilton competed, and he can barely tell you which jump is an axel. But he still enjoys watching it, and loves to tell me when he sees it on TV, even though we live on different continents.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I feel that balance is not there atm, PCS is definitely given more weight after last year's changes to 3 categories from 5. Ilya should have won on balance over Cha.

PCS has the same weight overall this season as last season (In the SP, it's average x 5.01 vs. average x 5 last season, and in the FS it's average x 9.99 instead of average x 10), it's just the weight of different aspects within the PCS have changed.

Maybe the way judges reward PCS scores has been different this season, for whatever reason - Absence of favoured skaters with high PCS scores, easier understanding due to the reduced number of categories, better knowledge on how to score because of recent refresher on criteria, ... - but PCS in total are not worth more this season than they were last season.

 

[balabam]

Thank you everybody. This has been good season also here at the forum. See you when next season start and let's hope we can watch it.

SO you are not a fan of World Team Trophy in 3 weeks?

 

[Andrea82]

SO you are not a fan of World Team Trophy in 3 weeks?

and don't forget
Wolmar Spring Cup (7-8 April)
Triglav Trophy & Narcisa Cup (12-16 April)
Thailand Open Figure Skating Trophy (1-4 May)
Oceania International Competiton (15-17 May)
Mexico Cup (16-20 May)
Hollins Trophy (9-12 June)

​

 

[sworddance21]

I don't think Ilia will ever be what we think of as a "beautiful" skater, but he has other strengths. He adds variety to the current group of men, filling a technical void after Nathan left and adding more with the 4A. Didn't he once have an instagram story where they asked him what was his biggest regret, and it was something like, "Thinking I have skating skills." LOL, at least the kid is aware.

In any case, I would hate for Ilia to try to conform to some subjective standard of "beautiful" skating, only for him to lose what's currently unique about him - this brash, youthful style with YOLO attitude going for all the crazy jumps that no one has been able to do, including 4A and 3Lz-3A (with a rippon on the 3A!). He has been such a fresh face and really shook up the men's discipline in a different way this year. I bought a ticket to this year's Nationals not to see Jason Brown, though he's fabulous, but for a chance to see Ilia's 4A. It didn't happen, but the 3Lz-3A-3T made up for it. I guess we all have our reasons for watching skating...

He has glaring weaknesses, yes, but I'd like to see how he tries to improve. Maybe he never gets to this "beautiful" skating 90+ point PCS ideal, but he still has something to offer in this sport, and I think he deserves his bronze medal, especially after his short program and the 4A.

Personally, I think he still has a lot to improve technically, such as cleaning up the q's and the UR calls on his current quads, and becoming more consistent over both programs. If that means having to take out 1 or 2 quads to give him more strength during his other quads while also adding in more steps, transitions, and choreography, I think we all win.

I think Ilia will improve his skating skills. I like the variety he brings to the men's skating. I'm a huge fan of the "beautiful" skaters like Jason and Shoma, but I also think there is room for different kinds of artistry. In dance, for example, I love ballet, but I also enjoy hip hop and everything in between. One does not have to be classical to be artistic.

 

[readernick]

I think Ilia will improve his skating skills. I like the variety he brings to the men's skating. I'm a huge fan of the "beautiful" skaters like Jason and Shoma, but I also think there is room for different kinds of artistry. In dance, for example, I love ballet, but I also enjoy hip hop and everything in between. One does not have to be classical to be artistic.

Absolutely this. I think Ilya is getting the PCS he deserves now. However, he clearly has artistic/ performance potential. I can't see him every being like Jason ( that's ok one of each wonderful skater is enough) but he can be a better more artistic version of himself. What really is lacking is the SS as has already been mentioned. But, he's so much younger than his competitors. He has time to work on his basic stroking and grow into his own kind of artist.

 

[Jammers]

Why I stated what I did is look at the position of US skating in United States. First off the coverage by NBC/Peacock which has been nothing short of horrible. If a person does not have Peacock or cable the only chance that some will be able to watch the world Championships is the two hour segment that is going on right about now on a Saturday evening where the fewest number people will be home to see it or to find it. Second is state of elite skating in America. Our team basically got only 3 medals. Two of them the gold in ice dance and the silver in pair were basically taken by two teams that are very likely to retire after the season is over and outside of the second pair team who I think was 4 or 5th there is no chance for the others to medal any time soon unless a lot retirements happen which I wouldn't count on. Then there women division which has had nothing short a disasterious result at this world championship. Isabeau who got fourth which was not a major problem, we had the top women in the US lower than this, but the others two dear god one was 12th the other 16 or 18th I think which I think I had been one of the worst showings in recent memory. Many are very worried about Isabeau jump technique as she grows and matures that it will fail and after her there very little in pipeline of development left because outside of Ava , Lindsey, and Josephine Lee and couple junior skated that may be able to move up to senior level the rest of the top US women are in their mid to late 20's and who knows how long they will be in the competitive ranks. Then the US men who basically the only US discipline that is basically healthy led by 18 year old Ilia. Ilia won the bronze medal the best result by individual in this year's worlds. The men also had Jason Brown who was in Olympics last year and Andrew. Basically all them did their job to keep 3 US men spots. Andrew made the free skate,which considered that he had not competed internationally for 2 years was great, Jason was 5th and Ilia was third. The men in the US basically have good pipeline of development. A lot of the men are in their early 20's and several younger are starting to process of moving up to senior level and Lucas Broussard who still in juniors but in next two years will move up and most likely rise right to top level of US men.

Why I said obivion is that next year Ilia may be the only major American Skater left and only national champion left standing at the beginning of next season. He is going to have to carry a huge burden upon his back of keeping United States skating relevant internationally going into both a home worlds and the 2026 Olympics which the pressure will intense from both the USFS and NBC to bring home the medals especially the Gold Medal in 2026. All of the hype, the noise, and the spotlight will be on him. At that point skating may be least of his problems. I am afraid that he might crack under the pressure.Nathan cracked in 2018 but he wan't the only relevant US skater there either. The US ladies were not great but I do not think any of them were as low as this year, pairs were their and the US wonr a bronze in both the ice dance and team event. In 2026 Ilia will most likely be the leader of the figure skaters of team USA. One of the favorites to win gold. I hope that he can handle it because it going so much pressure on him to proform. This hopefully changes if Nathan Chen come back but I would not bet on it. So here we are. The main standard bearer of US FIgure skating is an 18 year old young man who has deal with all of this along with just plain skating

I am angry that we have arrived at this point. The USFS should have been more prepared for this. They could have put money into development and supporting the skaters coming through the ranks but no we kept propping up aging champions and praying that that the leaders would not retire and now of all of chickens have come to roost because the talent well has run dry in most cases and USFS has no one to blame but themselves for it.

The US ladies were NOT good at the 2018 winter Olympics. As bad as these Worlds were at least we had someone finish in the top 4 in 2018 they finished 9,10,11 at the Olympics and not much better at Worlds with 6,10,12 placings. As for Pairs you do not expect some of your younger Pairs teams to not continue on for 4 more years just when the US got 3 spots for the first time in memory and the older teams are going to retie soon leaving room at the top for them if they stuck it out. Ice Dance does worry me because we don't really have a team i can see getting on the podium after C/B call it quits H/B have been getting passed up by younger teams for the last few years and i don't see from the younger ranks a team that can make a move before 2026 and it's probably been since 2002 that a US team wasn't a favorite to get on the podium at the Olympics.

 

[TT_Fin]

SO you are not a fan of World Team Trophy in 3 weeks?

I don't have time to watch it. Have fun.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Three years before the next Olympics and Jammers is already predicting dire finishes for H/B and all of our younger dance teams? That none of them will reach the podium? Considering that that poster wanted C/B to retire last year and this season Madison and Evan just won worlds.. well some individuals who make predictions almost always make gloomy ones. We'll see what happens but I prefer to be hopeful, not always negative.

 

[4everchan]

Let's leave the pcs side of things for a moment.. rewatching on TV with kurt browning commentating. Kurt mentioned how Ilia sure needs to improve pcs but what really prevented him from scoring higher is negative GOE on his iffy landings. He has by far the highest BV but the GOE is very low.

 

[skatesofgold]

Let's leave the pcs side of things for a moment.. rewatching on TV woth kurt browning commentating. Kurt mentioned how Ilia sure needs to improve pcs but what really prevented him from scoring higher is negative GOE on his iffy landings. He has by far the highest BV but the GOE is very low.

Yeah, there's definitely a few ways for Ilia to squeeze out more points, even on the technical side.

 

[skatedreamer]

Let's leave the pcs side of things for a moment.. rewatching on TV with kurt browning commentating. Kurt mentioned how Ilia sure needs to improve pcs but what really prevented him from scoring higher is negative GOE on his iffy landings. He has by far the highest BV but the GOE is very low.

Can’t argue with Kurt; Ilia’s landings at Worlds were definitely messy. However, I wonder how much of that was due to pressure from expectations. Here’s his performance from Skate America: not much wrong with these landings IMO.

Ilia Malinin / 4Ð / FREE PROGRAM Skate America /Norwood 23.10.22

youtu.be

As an aside, we don’t get much chance to hear Kurt’s commentary in the US and I wish we could! He’s always objective but so respectful and appreciative as well.

 

[4everchan]

Can’t argue with Kurt; Ilia’s landings at Worlds were definitely messy. However, I wonder how much of that was due to pressure from expectations. Here’s his performance from Skate America: not much wrong with these landings IMO.

Ilia Malinin / 4Ð / FREE PROGRAM Skate America /Norwood 23.10.22

youtu.be

As an aside, we don’t get much chance to hear Kurt’s commentary in the US and I wish we could! He’s always objective but so respectful and appreciative as well.

Yes... some of those landings are much better. It may have been nerves.. but, and this is said hypothetically, if Ilia had better basic stroking and flow, perhaps his confidence would be enhanced. I noticed Conrad's landing are much better since he has worked on that aspect of his skating.

 

[yesterday]

Let's leave the pcs side of things for a moment.. rewatching on TV with kurt browning commentating. Kurt mentioned how Ilia sure needs to improve pcs but what really prevented him from scoring higher is negative GOE on his iffy landings. He has by far the highest BV but the GOE is very low.

Definitely. The box does not really reflect that, you see a green line and another and then TES can be quite different.
Shoma makes up for the one-two quads he does less on GOE.

 

[cailuj365]

To me, Ilia's messy technical skate here was more from nerves than lack of ability. He has shown he can earn very high GOE on the 4Lz, 4F, and 4A too. He just didn't do so last night and received fair marks for that effort. I think he gets a bit shaky when he's suddenly in the mix at a big competition or there's a lot of expectation going into the LP (2022 and 2023 Worlds, 2023 Nationals) whereas he skates lights out when he's coming from behind (Skate America, GPF). He's going to have to learn how to deal with the pressure and find his confidence, because he's only going to find himself in these situations more.

 

[msteach3]

To Jin's defense, he is coming back from injury and restarting from scratch. Han Yan was a special skater... I miss him dearly. Nathan was at it for long enough, competing in two Olympics... I miss him dearly as well. With Shoma, he remains one of the skaters from those last two Olympics that I enjoy the most, exactly because they are full package. PCS skating alone doesn't excite me... Jumps alone don't excite me... I need it all So yeah... Han Yan, Shoma, Nathan, of course Patrick... these are the skaters I admire. I don't think Ilia will join my list anytime soon, but I will be cheering for him when he lands crazy things like the quad axel or even more impressive in my opinion the 3lz-3a sequence... Gosh, I'd love him to do a 3a-3a seq. I think the problem is that people want him to win things... He can be admired for what he brings on to the table, even if he doesn't win...

I agree with everything you’ve said about Ilia, however I believe he really, really wants to win. And truth be told, U.S. figure skating needs him to win.

 

[OksVin]

Maybe someone has a recording of the Japanese broadcast of the men's short and free programs?

 

[Diana Delafield]

Really, we won medals and kept three spots in three out of four disciplines, so it was a good Worlds for the USA. I think American skating is in oblivion only in the sense that the general public doesn't know it's alive. But that's been going on pretty much its whole history, except for Dorothy Hamill, Nancy and Tonya, Michelle Kwan, and What Would Brian Boitano Do?

And when skating fans complain because their favourite sport doesn't get as much attention as it used to, remember other artistic sports that take just as much work and pain and dedication and get no attention at all. Rhythmic gymnastics, a sport I dabbled in when my daughter took it up in the 1980s, made its Olympic debut in 1980. The first ever gold medallist was the Canadian champion, a young friend of mine from Vancouver, Lori Fung. CBC then had to run around trying to borrow footage from other countries' networks because they hadn't even sent a single cameraman over to film the event. Skating still does pretty well for public attention. In Canada, at least.