Ladies Tech calls in Russia versus Canada

Mathman · Nov 6, 2017

4everchan said:
wait a second. I am the first to admit the mistakes made by Kaetlyn and Gabby...

But i am tired to hear things like "she skated poorly"

OK, OK, Gabby Daleman skated well in the LP at Cup of China. It was just her bad luck ("the luck of the draw") that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva skated even better, and Marin Honda skated better yet, and Elena Radionova was still better, and Mai Mihara, Wakaba Higuchi and Alina Zagitova even nore so.

Come on, Canadian ladies, get your acts together. This is the the Olympic season. Kaetlyn and Gabby need to start skating like they are the world silver and bronze medalists. (Or do I expect too much for the early part of the season?)

samkrut@mail.ru · Nov 6, 2017

jenm said:
agree they look borderline. 2nd flip was also borderline to me in slow mo but better than the first flip.
don't agree the bolded part since she pre-rotates (albeit very very little) and has a hook on her landing so that can't be more than 3 full rotations.

I excluded prerotation from consideration - it's a different topic. Of course, she did not do 3 full rotations in the air - no one does.

jenm · Nov 6, 2017

voolfee said:
No, they wasn't underrotated for sure. In my opinion only one jump in Alina's LP had UR, 3Lo in combo.

I have the same observation.

jenm · Nov 6, 2017

[email protected] said:
I excluded prerotation from consideration - it's a different topic. Of course, she did not do 3 full rotations in the air - no one does.

i know. hence my reply.

madison · Nov 6, 2017

It's strange it seems that everyone has a different opinion about what jumps were ur, if they were...
Shouldn't be a precise thing, though? :slink:

4everchan · Nov 6, 2017

Mathman said:
OK, OK, Gabby Daleman skated well in the LP at Cup of China. It was just her bad luck ("the luck of the draw") that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva skated even better, and Marin Honda skated better yet, and Elena Radionova was still better, and Mai Mihara, Wakaba Higuchi and Alina Zagitova even nore so.

Come on, Canadian ladies, get your acts together. This is the the Olympic season. Kaetlyn and Gabby need to start skating like they are the world silver and bronze medalists. (Or do I expect too much for the early part of the season?)

ermmm.. i agree on one thing : the other girls skated excellent programs.

however, may I remind you and everyone that the canadian ladies peaked at worlds last year... gabby is coming back from injury... kaetlyn just added her 3 jump combo at skate canada (she didn't have it at aci)... etc... both girls have learned new programs (fine kaetlyn ditched her summertime but she performed it in competition)...

i am not worried at all and while i recognize they will need to do better to repeat last year's results, i am not going to agree that they have had poor outings so far...

YMMV

Mathman · Nov 6, 2017

college pat;1838092i said:
Than Please explain in Writing to the Public/Media/Social Media, News/Media Fans, Bloggers what (-3) means for one person and not another . does people who get medals only get a -2, no points taken off.

The reason that not all falls end up with -3 deduction for all judges is that different judges might have different opinions about the positive features of the element. If you fall, that's -3 for the fall. But, in the language of the ISU document, "It is important that the final GOE of an element reflects the positive aspects, as well as any possible reductions that may apply."

For instance, a judge might think that the jump had and unexpected/creative/difficult entry. Or that it was preceded by clear, recognizable preceding steps, or that it had good height and distance. So to this judge the positive features contributed +1 GOE to the element. The final GOE would then be -3 + 1 = -2.

A different judge might not be impressed so much by the positive features and would just key in -3 and call it a day. These are judgement calls.

4everchan · Nov 6, 2017

madison said:
It's strange it seems that everyone has a different opinion about what jumps were ur, if they were...
Shouldn't be a precise thing, though?

probably because many are borderline... to me, the only one that was clear was the loop in the combo in the SP.. but that one was not marked... i thought the 2a was short too in the SP....

in the LP.. i didn't see anything live...

one needs to remember that the tech panel doesn't review each jump and has one review camera with a different angle than we do... i am not even sure they can use slow motion??? someone please tell me if they do have slow mo...

but we spend hours discussing these jumps and they have 10 seconds...

many mentioned it but at skate canada the KnC wait was incredibly long... it's clear they reviewed more jumps there and more calls were given.... maybe it's something they were trying out : let's review everything... ???

jenm · Nov 6, 2017

madison said:
It's strange it seems that everyone has a different opinion about what jumps were ur, if they were...
Shouldn't be a precise thing, though?

it should be but sometimes it's difficult to tell given the camera angle (and I'm also not an expert in URs hence I'm asking for people's opinion on the matter).
that's why I agree with Mathman that skaters should rotate their jumps so they don't leave any doubt.
one thing I observed tho, as amazing as they look on real time, several of Alina's jumps have hook (maybe borderline) on the landing. Something I appreciate about Zhenya's landings, they are clean most of the time.

Mathman · Nov 6, 2017

chuckm said:
BTW, I agree with Canadianskaterguy that Mihara should have been on the podium instead of Radionova.

Well, there is the short program, too. Mihara got third in the LP, as she should have. But Radionova had a 4-point lead from the SP, and she wasn't exactly chopped liver in the LP.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Nov 6, 2017

chuckm said:
What killed Gabby at CoC was even though she had 4 clean triples (no -GOE): 3t+3t, 3fe, 3z, 3z+2t+2t, 3lo, 2a, 3s-so,
six other ladies had cleaner, better executed performances than she did, and many of those performances will be long remembered.

Cup of China will go down in my memory as one of the best GP ladies freeskates ever.

BTW, I agree with Canadianskaterguy that Mihara should have been on the podium instead of Radionova. What did Mihara in was skating third in the order in the first group (she should have skated last, as she was tied with Honda, who skated first in the second group). That kept her PCS lower than it should have been.

Well they weren't tied given the tiebreaker... can't remember but I think Honda had a higher tech score?

Actually, Gabby landed 5 clean triples... the three jump combo was a bit tight hence the slight deduction but the actual first jump would definitely be considered a clean triple.

madison · Nov 6, 2017

jenm said:
it should be but sometimes it's difficult to tell given the camera angle (and I'm also not an expert in URs hence I'm asking for people's opinion on the matter).
that's why I agree with Mathman that skaters should rotate their jumps so they don't leave any doubt.
one thing I observed tho, as amazing as they look on real time, several of Alina's jumps have hook (maybe borderline) on the landing. Something I appreciate about Zhenya's landings, they are clean most of the time.

oh, really I don't think so.. sometimes Med's combo 3S3T looks very borderline..

4everchan · Nov 6, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Well they weren't tied given the tiebreaker... can't remember but I think Honda had a higher tech score?

Actually, Gabby landed 5 clean triples... the three jump combo was a bit tight hence the slight deduction but the actual first jump would definitely be considered a clean triple.

what made it worse for Gabby as well, is that she usually tags a 2a after the 3s for her sequence...so she missed a combo completely...

in terms of base value... i was surprised that Liza only did one lutz... she could definitely ditch a lower value element and add a second lutz now that she does the 3a...

it's like she replaced one lutz by the 3a instead of replacing her lowest valued jump.... weird

Ladies Tech calls in Russia versus Canada

Mathman

[email protected]

Medalist

jenm

The Last One Degree

jenm

The Last One Degree

madison

4everchan

Mathman

4everchan

jenm

The Last One Degree

Mathman

CanadianSkaterGuy

madison

4everchan

Similar threads

Connect with us