2014 Olympics Short Dance

[rosacotton]

Wow, was not expecting I/K to blow B/S out of the water by that big a margin, though they definitely had the better performance! (Pleasant surprise that the French beat B/S, too.) Especially since it seemed B/S was being backed by the federation. How did the tide turn so quickly?

 

[xyriateo]

I am trying to maintain an open mind, but I/K just don't do anything for me. They have simplistic programs (I include Sawn Lake in this category), with bobble-prone execution, and still score high. Maybe they will improve and earn the scores and adulation with they are given now. I hope PB and, yes, even B/S, come out guns 'a blazing" in the free dance.

While I do recognize their talent (Katsalapov in particular is *that* good, he's the new Scott Moir), I agree that their programs this year are not as special as many think. Swan Lake - which everybody seems to die for - is overly theatrical, too frantic and clumsy.
Both P/B and I/K were overscored in the SD. I think P/B have a better FD, but the judges seems to tilt towards the russians (see I/K's sudden surge in program components score).

 

[caitie]

Yeah, I remember Terry Gannon saying that at Nationals, but I'm like 99.999% sure he's incorrect and was exaggerating. He's the least knowledgable of the commentators and always seems the least with it. Everything DW have said about Schez implied they nearly skated to it before but decided it would make the perfect Olympic program for them, which to me suggests that they held off at some point during *this* quad.

 

[caitie]

While I do recognize their talent (Katsalapov in particular is *that* good, he's the new Scott Moir), I agree that their programs this year are not as special as many think. Swan Lake - which everybody seems to die for - is overly theatrical, too frantic and clumsy.
Both P/B and I/K were overscored in the SD. I think P/B have a better FD, but the judges seems to tilt towards the russians (see I/K's sudden surge in program components score).

I/K's first lift is such a show stopper, perfectly timed to the music. I think they are fast (although they looked really slow during their step sequences in the team event, maybe being very cautious!) and good performers, and their program is fun and accessible. It just works, especially for casual viewers. I remember being impressed/surprised at how well it went over in a discussion with every-four-years fans at the team event.

I feel like the judges have really liked I/K's programs all season (although wow they got hosed at NHK!), even with an actual fall on an element that took all the air out of their performance, they just barely lost Euros to C/L. And they peat P/B in France, too.

 

[SimplyLex]

While I do recognize their talent (Katsalapov in particular is *that* good, he's the new Scott Moir), I agree that their programs this year are not as special as many think. Swan Lake - which everybody seems to die for - is overly theatrical, too frantic and clumsy.

Funny, I actually thought of him as the new Charlie White. Scott is Tessa's shadow, while Charlie and Nikita really stand out even despite having exquisite, attention-grabbing partners. With V/M it's all about Tessa.
Nikita also has Charlie's inner fire and frantic energy, which can be a huge advantage if combined with great technical skills and control. Scott doesn't have that.

I do agree that Swan Lake is more crowd pleasing than it is choreographically challenging, though.

 

[Mathman]

What would really be fun would be to have an iPod with about a thousand songs on it, and play one at random when the dancers take their pose.

That way we could see who could dance on the fly. LOL

Remember those "Improv-ice" professional shows they used to have? The skaters drew music at random and had, I think, about a half hour to get something together. The most famous performance was Todd Eldredge's version of "Who let the dogs out?"

Surya Bonaly brought a huge trunkful of costumes, to be ready for anything. Sure enough, she drew a country-western song, and she whipped out a cowgirl outfit.

 

[Frenchie]

Done!
Yes, it took me this long to read all your posts here, and I started just after the SD was over! IDK if it’s because English is not my mother tongue.
Some of us read everything you all write. I hope you all take this into account before posting. Even those of you who fly high in the sky like vultures and end up repeating the same rants and bashings ad nauseam …

Remember I'm neutral, as I love both D/W & V/M (so don't kill me !).
Here is how I see this;
D/W executed their SD perfectly & are so strong, but I don't get the emotional connection when watching them. But the judges are not supposed to mark on emotion.
V/M skated to the music beautifully. They hit every beat & make it look effortless.
I/K were amazing, they really dazzled for me.
P/B interest me the most with their choreography but hey I'm a P/B fan.
B/S were held up as back-up for the free in case I/K screw up like they did at the Europeans. So for me this say's the Bronze is going to a Russian couple.
C/L are projecting to the judges & have a really good SD but I was shocked when I saw W/P marks.
So to some-up, the gold is going to D/W unless they make a huge error.
One; B/S were not 5th best.
Two; I feel that V/M & D/W are a lot closer in terms of the points they received.

To sum it up, this is exactly how I feel.

All top 7 team skated great today.
I loved dancing of V&M, P&B, W&P, B&S and C&L – that was something!
B&S – Dmitri saved a twizzles, very expressive also

I was curious how objective your assessment would be after all your previous "objective" posts. Sorry, but given how tense and stiff Bobrova and Soloviev were today, regardless of their error on the twizzles, I believe your comment shows you’re not at all objective towards them. You’re a big B/S fan, and that's perfectly fine by me. But don't call yourself an objective analyst. They were bad today and were massively, massively held up regardless of their poor performance.

Hurtado/Diaz's SD was delightful. Both of their programs this season are well choreographed and they have great performance skills. I am happy they managed to skate so well and got recognised by the judges and technical panels.

I was thrilled at their scores too! So glad for them to get the reward for their long lasting efforts and talent. Unbelievable I was actually worried they might end up close to the cut for the FS!

I always search a truth in dance - I know that sounds big and pathetic but it's simple for me as a choreographer who see his/her work in motion. If I feel that 'complexion x-factor' it just clicks somehow. But as many people, as many feeling/opinions

ITA, the “truth factor” adds so much. Weaver/Pojé with their “Je suis malade” FD for example gave me that feeling of being truthfully 100% committed and in character, and that showed and deserved to be reflected in their marks. Your statement doesn’t sound big and pathetic at all to me.

I am an American with Cuban/Brazilian/Puerto Rican/Dominican/Colombian blood ties/heritage. We dance all night all the time. And, it is so engrained in our culture. We have rhythm, 'salero', passion, azucar and everything else. It is innate

OK, now that is just unfair to all other choreographers! It’s like you have a built-in turbocharger where most others still need to change a tire!

I think the scores of Virtue/Moir are a result of how very inconsistent they have been technically. They lost momentum due to all the mistakes they've made in the run up to this event. Davis/White have been spot on flawless for 2 entire seasons now and their impressive consistency is being rewarded. When 2 teams are so close, the judges are going to side with the most consistent skaters.

We’ve all gotten used to this reality of Figure Skating: you’re also being marked on reputation... Still, doesn’t make it right.

More from Kokko:

Petri Kokko
‏@coccco

I don't understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion. #finnstep #Sochi2014
​

And ... Rahkamo also tweeted that Virtue/Moir had the best SD today. Both inventors of the Finnstep agree.
Susanna Rahkamo

‏@ssusu
#TessaandScott the best for me. They dance for each other.​

The ISU has been thinking about ways of making Figure Skating more of a crowd-pleasing show for the audience. Now, wouldn’t it just be the awesomest thing to have Rahkamo and Kokko dressed as Roman Imperators and at the end of the Finnstep, have a spotlight on them and they actually have to make :thumbsup: or :disagree: like Julius Caesar at the Colosseum after a Gladiator fight, which would mean +3 or -3 points?

It's all about perception and opinion. In my opinion, Charlie is by far the more genuine performer, whereas Scott kind of over-exaggerates his facial expressions and I'm not buying it. In fact, I haven't bought it since their Mahler FD. The show makes it even more obvious that he doesn't feel anything at all when he's making those gimmicky faces.

To be honest, I always felt that Charlie was the more genuine, likeable performer of D/W, when I felt that Tessa was that in V/M. I know pairs aren’t just interchangeable, but I always thought that Tessa Virtue and Charlie White would have made the absolutely perfect dance pair…

I am expecting Heekin-Canedy/Dun to be done after Worlds, as long as there will be any decent partners available. They seemed to have been making decent enough progress last season but this season has been very disappointing for them and this is another performance (after Euros SD) where he completely choked. It was painful to watch.

Lol… So you think she will get an upgrade? I wonder how much more a top skater will cost her dad… Maybe they can lease him?

Look I have no personal agenda against you or anything but your comments in the summer rubbed me and others wrong, and were exactly this:
My predictions for this season (which given my history those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare):
So it's sort of disingenuous of you now to be like OH but I only said that in SUMMER when you yourself said everything you feel strongly enough to declare is always right (providing also many obnoxious examples from the past in your quest to boost yourself up as the best predictor ever).
You also said Feel free to bump if I even get a single of these wrong. As usual I wont.
So if people bring it up, you can't really blame them.

Thank you tulosai for taking the time to actually look up what she wrote and remind her of it. I’m sure many of us were tempted to do so…
Look sky_fly20, everyone can have their favorites, but it’s just that need to add some bashing slogan about their competitors to each and everyone of your posts which make them so hard to endure. Seriously, just seeing Gracie Gold’s picture next to your posts has already made me like her less, and that is just unfair to her.

I would enjoy a Sky_fly20 vs CanadianSkaterGuy thread.

I have to admit I have been thinking for a long time about suggesting a thread where sky_fly20 and pangtongfan would specifically get sent to, to “get rid of all that extra (negative) energy” they seem to have!

double post oops.

You can actually completely delete your own post, there’s a box you can click for that at the very top when you click on “edit post”.​

 

[dress]

Remember those "Improv-ice" professional shows they used to have? The skaters drew music at random and had, I think, about a half hour to get something together. The most famous performance was Todd Eldredge's version of "Who let the dogs out?"

Surya Bonaly brought a huge trunkful of costumes, to be ready for anything. Sure enough, she drew a country-western song, and she whipped out a cowgirl outfit.

A Dance off Yeaahhhh!!!!!

 

[sweetskates1]

Lol Frenchie -

I find it incredible that we are all here going back and forth on this thread communicating across continents from our respective microcosms. I just love figure skating. This is the stuff! In spite of our loyalties, backgrounds, preferences - we are all here occasionally getting on each others' nerves, supporting our inclinations and even casting spells (where are you wordsworthgirl?!) because we love this darn sport. I know the Olympics are supposed to bring us all together, to remind us to cheer for all the members of our species but golly - there is nothing like figure skating. And Sochi is just a chapter in a long-@$# soap opera, we have Worlds, Nationals, ect. next. Hahahahaha .

 

[Angryyew]

I really like Tara and Johnny but they don't seem into this like they are into the individual events. They constantly are comparing it to the individual event like when commentators watching hockey relate it to basketball or football so the average sports fan isn't lost. The difference seems, to me at least, they aren't relating it to individual skating for the viewers but for themselves to stay interested.

Yeah, I generally like them, but I think they should have brought in someone with more actual ice dancing knowledge. Didn't Tanith B. Do some commentary for the Grand Prix series? Of course she seemed kind of put out by the color guy trying to goad her into saying who was better between D&W and V&M.

 

[Debs122]

Funny, I actually thought of him as the new Charlie White. Scott is Tessa's shadow, while Charlie and Nikita really stand out even despite having exquisite, attention-grabbing partners. With V/M it's all about Tessa.
Nikita also has Charlie's inner fire and frantic energy, which can be a huge advantage if combined with great technical skills and control. Scott doesn't have that.

That's ironic since Nikita as stated Scott is his idol on multiple occasions.

Nikita feels that Scott Moir is an ideal partner, a real macho guarding Tessa every single second as if she were an antique vase. During their performance, Moir plays to the stands, fears nothing and pushes ahead with his dance the way an athlete of genius should do.

This man introduced me to school, to which I aspired - Canadian Scott Moir. For me, it is an example of an ideal partner, I regard him as my idol. I think I took only the minimum that could ever learn from Igor, but I tried as much as possible to catch every word.

I consider Scott Moir the perfect partner - everything he does works out so good! When you see him on the ice - he's the rock, the man, the pillar. Any female skater would skate with him! He doesn't need any particular choreography to attract the viewers, just his energy is enough.

 

[ice coverage]

Scott is Tessa's shadow, while Charlie and Nikita really stand out even despite having exquisite, attention-grabbing partners. With V/M it's all about Tessa.
Nikita also has Charlie's inner fire and frantic energy, which can be a huge advantage if combined with great technical skills and control. Scott doesn't have that.

Heartily disagree with your opinion. My opinion: Scott is NOT in Tessa's shadow. With Virtue/Moir, it's about both partners.

"Frantic" is a negative quality for ice dance, IMO. Have never understood why some consider it a positive quality.

Don't worry, Meryl and Charlie will blow Tessa and Scott out of the water with their Shez. I mean, the other FD is soooo bland.

Disagree.

..and D/W's FD is way better and musical....not mechanical

Disagree. LOL, "bland" and "mechanical" are how I would describe Davis/White's ice dancing. I respect them, but I enjoy watching Virtue/Moir far more.

 

[WinterLily]

Sky_fly is just delusional in her anti-Canadian ways. Absurd exaggerations and sky_fly go hand in hand (eg thinking Gold can get the same PCS as Yu Na and 150 points).

For them not being technical masters according to sky_fly, V/M had the second highest base value and just a point shy of D/W.

And of course to add to the delusion she thinks D/W have always been ahead of V/M. I swear if V/M stood for Virtueva/Moirozov, sky_fly would all of a sudden think they were the best skaters ever.

haha very nice post!!! ^__^ totally agree!!!!

 

[NoNameFace]

Disagree. LOL, "bland" and "mechanical" are how I feel about Davis/White's ice dancing. I respect them, but I enjoy watching Virtue/Moir far more.

and somehow this is the clue for me - some we respect, some other we enjoy. Simple

ETA - of course both things would collide au regard one couple, this is out of discuss but often we admire couple's hard work or smth else but it just not 'clicked' in us, while in other couple we could see obvious errors or some imperfections but it is a joy for us to watch. But I don't think everyone can differ these things...

 

[ice coverage]

Remember I'm neutral, as I love both D/W & V/M (so don't kill me !).
Here is how I see this;
D/W executed their SD perfectly & are so strong, but I don't get the emotional connection when watching them. But the judges are not supposed to mark on emotion.

The word "connection" is in the official judging criteria.

 

[Figure 8's]

The way I see it is Virtue and Moir were like Kwan and Davis and White like Lipinski at the 98 Olympics. Virtue and Moir skated to hang onto the Gold and Davis and White to win the Gold.

 

[amateur]

Remember those "Improv-ice" professional shows they used to have? The skaters drew music at random and had, I think, about a half hour to get something together. The most famous performance was Todd Eldredge's version of "Who let the dogs out?"

Surya Bonaly brought a huge trunkful of costumes, to be ready for anything. Sure enough, she drew a country-western song, and she whipped out a cowgirl outfit.

I've been thinking all week, that there should be some sort of improvised group number for the Olympic team event, if they insist on keeping the event, to make the team idea actually meaningful and an event that is not just a watered-down rehash of the main event.

 

[SimplyLex]

Heartily disagree with your opinion. My opinion: Scott is NOT in Tessa's shadow. With Virtue/Moir, it's about both partners.

"Frantic" is a negative quality for ice dance, IMO. Have never understood why some consider it a positive quality.

Hey, not saying Scott is a bad ice dancer or anything. Just that he is more the "be her frame and show her off" kind of partner, while Charlie and Nikita also manage to really grab one's attention on their own. When V/M skate, I look at Tessa only. When D/W and I/K skate, I look at both partners equally. It's not a determinant of a good ice dancer, just the thing I like when I watch. I like guys who stand out, because usually it's the girls who draw more attention.

Frantic dancing is a bad thing. Having some frantic energy combined with technique and control, as I said earlier, is actually an amazing quality. But JMHO.

About Nikita's quotes: so Scott is the rock, the pilar, the guard. Exactly what I said. He's more of her frame than he is an individual dancer. Isn't "they skate as one" one of the favourite things V/M ubers say about them? Well, I prefer to actually have two individuals who dance TOGETHER than dance AS ONE. But that's just an opinion and like I said, not a determinant.

And Nikita might look up to Scott, but he actually does have many qualities of Charlie. But at the end of the day, I guess he's just something in between.

 

[NoNameFace]

ITA, the “truth factor” adds so much. Weaver/Pojé with their “Je suis malade” FD for example gave me that feeling of being truthfully 100% committed and in character, and that showed and deserved to be reflected in their marks. Your statement doesn’t sound big and pathetic at all to me.

thank you for understanding and your example is very good - they had told that story almost painfully - by their bodies, faces, gestures and I feel their message being far away from them, this is the power of truth indeed.

 

[cjsk8fan]

That is a great point TontoK! I think so too. And, I think that this quad will return to the drama/romance of yesteryear. I do not think there will be other Davis/Whites.

I certainly hope not. Drama and romance gets so boring, I hope there is always a Davis and White in the mix.