2017 GP Cup of China Ladies SP | Page 48 | Golden Skate

2017 GP Cup of China Ladies SP

Lzbee

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
I've just watched the videos and I haven't read any comments yet so this is an uninfluenced opinion. Essay incoming... :slink:

First of all, overall, what a fantastic competition. Quite a few underrotations going around but the the ladies really gave it their all and the performances were very enjoyable.

Wakaba had the skate of the night for me. I didn't really get her before but that skate was confident and technically sound, she was on fire. Coupled with her great freeskate, she's made me a fan and I hope she gets a well deserved spot to the Olympics. If I may be a little cheeky, I think that performance could've earned 74 if she had the reputation going behind her... or at least I would've given her that (I enjoyed it THAT MUCH).

Gabby's 3T-3T was magnificent. It was so properly rotated that she came out in a straight line - THAT is what a perfect +3 jump should look like but she loses out because others get +3's for much less. I have to agree with the B.ESP guys though, I think Wakaba out-performed her and still had the technical goods. Plus, Gaby messed up one of her spins. But the program is already a lot better than the last time I saw it so I have faith she'll keep improving.

Wow Elena, I didn't think she had it in her any more but she WENT for it and it paid off. Her posture is so much better and her arms are much less flaily and wild so kudos to her working hard on that. However, what happened to her spins??? Her Biellmann is as good as ever but the other spin was nowhere near and surely it's easier than a Biellmann?

Liza is back! Her triple Lutz was gorgeous. It's so nice to see her regaining her confidence so hopefully she can bring out more performance before the jumps are done next time. One thing I noticed though was that her spins are also not good so she's throwing away points there...

Alina's transitions are INSANE! The entrance into her double axel is just WOW even though she's simplified it (I think?). And her 3Lz-3L is jaw dropping. Shame about the fall though, I gotta keep reminding myself that she's not Evgenia and being de facto World #2 means you gotta live up to the expectation and there's already a lot of pressure being a senior debutant. I just wish they'd give her more time to breathe in the program since there's just too much crammed into too little time. Controversial opinion but I think she's a better dancer than Evgenia (from that video of Eteri's class), if only they'd let her show it with some better programs that she can inject some of her own personality into.

I was rooting for Mai coming into this competition and she did well but perhaps not as well as she can do. I like this program - the choreography is great but there is still a few bits that need ironing out, like that butt swerve move. I wonder if it'd be more natural for her with a more tomboyish program like Pirates of the Caribbean or something?

Nice to see Marin redeem herself with that lovely skate, she has so much potential. It's curious that her spins are not very good though considering most of the Japanese ladies have very good ones, especially Satoko, her teammate, so hopefully she works on that.

Congrats to Xiangning who had a good skate too! Her technicals weren't quite there today but the performance was a big step up compared to poor Ziquan who didn't look very happy. Very nice to see and hear the crowd support there.

The only one I'm really sad for is Dabin. She wasn't at her best here and she looked somewhat stiffer and more out of it than usual. Unfortunately, she isn't a super expressive skater anyway so she really needs to be consistent and technically on point to do well. She's probably going through a hard time after losing her mother but I hope she can find some fire somewhere for the Olympics (which she's pretty much guaranteed to go to imo).

The freeskate is going to be so exciting with so many within reach of the podium! :eeking:
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
All right I'm ready to do my summaries:

Wakaba: She was on fire! Her errors were once that an audience can't easily see live, especially if they are not hardcore fans like us. Still, I think her PCS was a bit underscored. I hope she qualifies to the final and is named on the Olympic team because SHE DESERVES IT! Looks at those amazing performances she's putting out...

Gabby: The opening combo was very nice, but based on what the thread was saying I was thinking she suddenly invented a new arm position or something because of the GOE explosion. No, it's a nice triple triple executed very well. But it's a toe-toe combo, which should not be scoring as high as it is BV-wise.

Elizaveta: YASSS.... That was a redemption skate for her after so many people wrote her off. I hope she attempts the 3A tomorrow. She's losing points on the spins though and her PCS is not as high as it should be or once was when her world title was more recent. That's sad because she really deserved more.

Elena: Good for her for doing what she needs to. However, she definitely had a UR on the toe that should have been called. Also, why is she even planning 3Lz-3T in the short anyway? It's not really paying off for her. I'd rather she'd plan to do 3Lo-3T instead. She typically does it anyway! Hope she does in the FS and has a redemption skate like Liza. That third spot is not being given without a FIGHT.

Mai: I actually think her score here looks about right. Today she wasn't quite as good as she usually is in my opinion. But she's a FS skater and I know she can pull it up tomorrow! Her first combo looked questionable on the landings but she saved that landings...

Marin: Much better than Skate Canada and kudos to her! Very nice today. I think her flip needed an UR call as well, though. Good for her for getting all level 4s today, but I hope she doesn't get complacent about that. (I don't think she's one to get complacent anyway) Her spins need work still--she should seek out Satoko in training. :agree:

Alina: Where do I even start with Alina? She was absolutely phenomenal today even with the fall. When she does the program cleanly, it will easily be one of my favorite SPs this year if not THE favorite. She is so balletic and she captures the swanly, frenetic character of the ballet and music so well. I like her new 2A entry as well and am so excited for her to slay it in the FS tomorrow and win the whole thing as she deserves.

Fashion Ranks:
1) Mai. What a beautiful dress! Suits her to a T!
2) Alina. Very swanly and gorgeous, suits her and her style very well.
3) Elizaveta. Her new dress is very different from her typical blousson, long-sleeve ones and I am here for it!
4) Elena. I absolutely love this dress! Different than last year, which I loved, but I love this one too.
Fashion Disappointments:
Marin. I expected a bit more. I don't know what, though. Just not what I was thinking, but I'm not her costume designer.
Gabby. If you're going to do Carmen, you've GOT to have an original dress, a stunning dress. Hers is too simple in my opinion, and doesn't quite fit the character.
 

Celine

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Wow, what a fascinating event. Just goes to show that the ladies event (aside from Zhenya) will be incredibly unpredictable. SO exciting. Good for Gabby, pulling it together at this event.
 

sowcow

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Can someone explain why Gabby is in the lead with a 70+ score when she did a 3T-3T? I don't care how good it was, there's no excuse for that sort of thing. And with that layback, seems a little fishy to me in my opinion.

What is fishy about that? Her 3T-3T was the most beautiful jump combination in the competition and she has strong flowing edges coming out of her jumps. They don't come to a standstill at the end. Her jumps actually jump. She has speed, attack, strong skating skills, and IMO her presentation was great.

I love Wakaba and wouldn't be mad if she was leading, but I have no problem with this result.
As the British announcers mentioned, the audience did a collective :jaw: gasp, after seeing Gabby's 3/3 combo. Ryan Bradley said it best last season, no matter what the event, people walk away from live comps., and Gabby's 3/3 combo is always brought up as a highlight for fans. Having seen it live myself, it's a showstopper! TV does not do it justice.
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As Osmond4gold points out ... the collective gasp at DALEMAN's jump combination is quite something ... especially compared with the much muted reaction for the same element performed by HIGUCHI and RADIONOVA!

In fact, the audience starts to gasp after DALEMAN's 1st triple toe ... and it grows 10× louder by the time she lands the 2nd triple toe! :bow:

In my experience, it's unusual to hear that loud and 'universal' of a collective gasp at a competition; so I have to assume DALEMAN's jump combination is indeed super impressive to witness live (...certainly even moreso than how impressive it looks on T.V.!)


Listen to the reaction
of the (unbiased, non-Canadian, apolitical) Chinese crowd for yourself and decide...
(all videos are queued up to the combination jumps of each of the 3 ladies...)

► Gabrielle DALEMAN

► Wakaba HIGUCHI

► Elena RADIONOVA


:points:
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
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Listen to the reaction
of the (unbiased, non-Canadian, apolitical) Chinese crowd for yourself and decide...
(all videos are queued up to the combination jumps of each of the 3 ladies...)

► Gabrielle DALEMAN

► Wakaba HIGUCHI

► Elena RADIONOVA


:points:


OMG :laugh:, my goodness... sorry but it is kind of funny to see the Chinese people beings used as some sort of jump quality detector with the highly scientific methods of 'collective gasps' audio. It is kind of funny.

Having thought about it, I have no problem with Gabby being ahead a tad and I happen to love her big 3t3t. It is better to be thought as continuously undermarked anyway like Wakababy had been all this season, so here's hope the judges may be motivated to reward her proper good PCS if she delivers.
 

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
Really good quality short programme. The power and athleticism of Daleman is impressive. The opening combo is amazing, the crowd loved it, probably not the best Carmen I have ever seen but she deserves her lead. The Top 3 are neck and neck. I’m not Radionova’s biggest fan but she is a born performer, opening combo was messy. Zagitova is within striking distance and is well placed for victory. Liza T needs to move the combo to the 2nd half, she doesn’t get amazing GOE’s from the judges. Will the free have a 3A?
 

crazydreamer

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Ugh, Alina's program was like a gymnastics routine. Just trick after trick with no performance and extremely angular and unattractive lines. If this is where skating is going, count me out.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Ugh, Alina's program was like a gymnastics routine. Just trick after trick with no performance and extremely angular and unattractive lines. If this is where skating is going, count me out.

It was just packed with difficulty. It was very impressive but not very expressive. Some of her moves are just so random (like kicking her leg up and turning after the "evil Swan" music at the very beginning).

It's just too many details... she can afford to take a few movements out and really extend (e.g. the twizzle to Y spiral in her footwork is just so mechanical when it could actually be a highlight).

That being said, it's easier to remove than add, so I hope her team will take some time to edit it down, because it's so darn frenetic. I know the fall affected her PCS, but I would have still had her behind Honda/Daleman/Radionova/Higuchi.

Radionova is a great example of a skater who uses her step sequence to show musicality and expression... given it's at the beginning of her skate, Alina's StSq looks like she's just spending time going through movements and is practically asking, "Is it the halfway point yet?", when it could actually be an artistic opportunity to build the character of the program. It's like she's thinking in the moment, knowing that she's got crazy difficulty to come, instead of expressing in the moment.

Of course, it's her first senior Grand Prix, and these things take time.
 

beki

Medalist
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Gabby and Wakaba are both amazing live. Why choose? They both stand out from other ladies with their athleticism and passionate performance. The free will be exciting.
 

lavoix

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
I have a silly question: how is GOE awarded?

For instance, all judges gave Alina -3 GOE, but overall the deduction was only 2.1

How does it work? Is it some sort of average? Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong thread.
 

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Gabby Daleman's short program is my guilty pleasure of the season despite those disgusting vocals. :dbana:

I had her version of Habanera with the hiccup singing stuck in my head all day. :dance3:

Prends garde à toi!
 

Seruleane

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
It's been so fun reading other people's thoughts on the ladies SP, so I'll add my 2 cents as well.

Gabby- I was really impressed with her sheer athleticism. No, she's not the most expressive skater, but her jumps and her overall presence make a huge statement- they remind me of the huge tumbling passes in gymnastics. I know some people dispute her being in first, but I can kind of understand why they put her there (though personally, I would have Wakaba as #1).

Wakaba- Well, the short is growing on me. Wakaba is a power skater too, though she is more expressive than Gabby and more of a complete package. I absolutely love her FS, so hoping she pulls ahead. She is definitely Japan's #1 for me.

Elena- So thrilled for Elena to have a cleanish skate. Sure, the triple toe may have been UR but gosh, I can't remember the last time she skated so well- maybe WTT if even that? Also, while people may dispute her tech marks, I absolutely think she deserved her PCS. If Ashley and Caro get high PCS, Elena should be up there too. Her overall presentation has improved since last season. I do think Elena is lucky to place as high as she did in this competitive field, but I'm not complaining! Hoping she pulls together a clean FS as well and maybe with some luck, will podium. She would be sending a clear message to the Russian Fed not to count her out yet. Also, I love seeing her happy in the K&C.

Alina- I was surprised about her fall, then realized I am wrong to assume she will have Medvedeva-like consistency. Also, it's her first Grand Prix. She did quite well, and definitely has the hardest program. I love her spins and jumps, but wish her team would tone down the transitions and let her have time to finish her movements and actually express the music instead of just skate through it in order to finish her transitions. I think she could be a very expressive skater, but her programs are so transition heavy, there is no breathing room to let her express herself. I do enjoy her FS though, and it is so high-scoring that I anticipate she will easily pull ahead many of the other ladies tomorrow.

Liza- Love her jumps, and love to see her regain her old form. However, don't think the music is really the best fit. I think BESP commentators mentioned how the faster her music got, the slower she looked, and I agree 100%. If she could perform with the athleticism that Gabby has, I think she would be scoring higher. Her spins and footwork need some work.

Mai- Very pleasant surprise to see her SP is so different from last year, when I thought her program was very generic and boring. I hope she skates an excellent FS, because she should be neck and neck with Wakaba IMO, though I still personally prefer Wakaba's skating more.

Marin- Honestly, still a bit underwhelmed by Marin's new SP. It feels bland and generic to me. Marin is a lovely, effervescent skater, and she definitely has that IT factor, but somehow she leaves me wanting more. I know many people adore her skating, and I can see why. I guess I just prefer more dynamic skaters. Turandot is definitely a crowd pleaser though, so I hope she skates clean tomorrow.

Overall, most of the top ladies brought their A game, and the scores are so close, the FS will be exciting! I hope everyone will skate as cleanly as possible tomorrow, and there won't be lots of UR or carrots needed.
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
...Gabrielle in 1st and Wakaba in 2nd - both skaters seem to be capitalizing on their powerful way of skating AND performing. For me, they are both synonims of 'pocket rocket': speed, quality translated into impactful performance as a whole. .... [on Gabby] but this vehicle is definitely a good fit for her to play a bit with expression, still maintaining her signature powerfulness. Wakaba's SP is my favourite SP along with Carolina's one, so I'm biased - this program makes a wonderful display for all qualities Wakaba has, being so vibrant and seductive by he sheer amount of sensibility put into expression, detail of movement.

You appreciate a variety of styles, judging from your two favourite programs :) Me, too! You articulated how 'power skaters' can perform in ways that play to their strengths. Absolutely agree! I love seeing programs that are authentic to who the skaters are. I love them even more when the performance is backed up by the sheer quality of skating (be it the 'lyrical/smooth' or the 'deep/powerful' type).
 

rollerblade

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Gabby and Wakaba are both amazing live. Why choose? They both stand out from other ladies with their athleticism and passionate performance. The free will be exciting.

Are you among the audience?

Hope there are fancams version of the SPs. The ladies did really well overall.
 

GoddessMinerva

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
It's been so fun reading other people's thoughts on the ladies SP, so I'll add my 2 cents as well.

Gabby- I was really impressed with her sheer athleticism. No, she's not the most expressive skater, but her jumps and her overall presence make a huge statement- they remind me of the huge tumbling passes in gymnastics. I know some people dispute her being in first, but I can kind of understand why they put her there (though personally, I would have Wakaba as #1).


Which is interesting because I believe she did do artistic gymnastics for awhile(it's called artistic but it's the athletic one with the balance beam and vault).
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
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As Osmond4gold points out ... the collective gasp at DALEMAN's jump combination is quite something ... especially compared with the much muted reaction for the same element performed by HIGUCHI and RADIONOVA!

In fact, the audience starts to gasp after DALEMAN's 1st triple toe ... and it grows 10× louder by the time she lands the 2nd triple toe! :bow:

In my experience, it's unusual to hear that loud and 'universal' of a collective gasp at a competition; so I have to assume DALEMAN's jump combination is indeed super impressive to witness live (...certainly even moreso than how impressive it looks on T.V.!)


Listen to the reaction
of the (unbiased, non-Canadian, apolitical) Chinese crowd for yourself and decide...
(all videos are queued up to the combination jumps of each of the 3 ladies...)

► Gabrielle DALEMAN

► Wakaba HIGUCHI

► Elena RADIONOVA


:points:

Well, if that combo has already given her +3 GOE across the board, i dont doubt its exceptional. The problem is people didnt see it live, so we dont have right perception how big it is in terms of hight and ice coverage. We cant have adequate perception watching it on TV. And this reminds me on thing i wanted to say earlier before when i saw comments about some skaters from this competition. Its regarding Wakaba, and peoples agreement about judges uderscoring her skating. Cause i watched her live, and she is good and skates fine and fast, but she just doesnt fill ice rink quite yet, doesnt jump very high or rotate fast, she skates very straight without all body involvement, so somehow it doesnt appear she skates big and that interesting when watching her live. I mean she is good, but i can easily see how others outscoring her in GOE and PCS :confused2:
 

GoddessMinerva

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
You appreciate a variety of styles, judging from your two favourite programs :) Me, too! You articulated how 'power skaters' can perform in ways that play to their strengths. Absolutely agree! I love seeing programs that are authentic to who the skaters are. I love them even more when the performance is backed up by the sheer quality of skating (be it the 'lyrical/smooth' or the 'deep/powerful' type).


I don't personally understand the pickiness and drama(unless you were maybe a skater yourself) myself. I am usually looking for the positives and trying to enjoy the performance. Sure, there's the drama/human factor given it's a competition - and that's what makes it fun to watch. I really don't know why I'd bother watching any sports if it just made me angry all the time. It's great to see someone struggle, and then make a comeback and find successes. It's awesome to watch young people reaching new goals. It's why I watch. I can see where scoring can be an issue - but I thought here it was mostly OK. The top scores were so close it doesn't really matter the order too much - so not much to argue about that I see. Maybe it's because the artistic gymnastics community meets up on tumblr rather than a forum - but there is a lot of humour and enjoyment in that fandom IMO. Things are way different here. There are far more people here of course though than a few hundred tumblr blogs discussing gymnastics.
 

Seruleane

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Which is interesting because I believe she did do artistic gymnastics for awhile(it's called artistic but it's the athletic one with the balance beam and vault).
Ahh, that makes sense then. Even a lot of her arm movements remind me of gymnasts when they are doing their beam or floor routines. It lends a unique quality to her skating.
 

randomfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Gabby: The opening combo was very nice, but based on what the thread was saying I was thinking she suddenly invented a new arm position or something because of the GOE explosion. No, it's a nice triple triple executed very well. But it's a toe-toe combo, which should not be scoring as high as it is BV-wise.

BV shouldn’t affect how much GOE is rewarded. The GOE judges the jump itself, not how difficult the jump is.

And also, this isn’t even the highest GOE Gabby received for that combo. She got +2.00 here. But she received +2.10 (which is the highest possible GOE for a triple) six times last season.
 
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