What things didn't you like at them? I didn't see them live, but from TV, they look pretty ok to me.
2017 Worlds Free Dance
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What things didn't you like at them? I didn't see them live, but from TV, they look pretty ok to me.
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Like most Russian couples, it is the usual 'Russian style' which is not on the same level as the North Americans and the French and Italian top couples. They look like they are trying too hard, the technique is not as refined, edges not deep enough, no particular 'theme'. It's hard to define. Whenever the French skate, they are doing technically difficult moves but make it look so smooth and easy. That is usually not the case with the Russians.
Don't get me wrong, I have liked some of the performances from Bobrova/Soloviev and for me, Stepanova/Bukin are my favourite Russians to watch. But in general they rarely have anything new to offer, and when I watched Tiffany and John, I just thought their performance was boring and uninspiring.
I don't know if you remember when Rahkomo/Kokko from Finland pioneered the 'Finnstep' in their Original Dance back in 1995? I can't imagine any Russian couple even beginning to accomplish a dance like that. Take a look on YouTube if you don't know it.
Nope. Are you?
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- Feb 18, 2014
You must be if you think P/C should retire already.
It was a comment done in the heat of the competition (as a P/C fan) when I was shocked to see V/M get a score just slightly off their personal best, despite an obvious disruptive mistake (borderline on an element) and the fact that they were off their best by far and still win by a comfortable margin. This means that they only need to stay on their feet to get the Gold medal. Which makes P/C chance to win the Olympics close to none.
I know it is a public forum and anyone can freely express their opinions but it wouldn't hurt if you would refrain for insulting skaters / forum members. It would make the conversation much more constructive and pleasant.
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- Feb 18, 2014
I apologise. And I see your point here.
I still hope that P/C skate at the Olympics, regardless of whether they win or not.
I still hope that P/C skate at the Olympics, regardless of whether they win or not.
Interesting. You can time it yourself watching the performance. Maia's foot returns to the ice, marking the end of the lift, at 6.7-6.8 seconds; clearly within the 7 second limit. They then have additional movements completing the segment involving the element. This should have been challenged. The one point deduction cost them the Free Dance small medal bronze.
When was the last time the Shibs made a lift error? I am no Shibs uber, but in what universe could B/S ever beat them in the FD? I need to polish my contact lenses. :reye:
As a V/M fan, I think it can go either way at the Olympics, especially if P/C do better in the SD next season unlike how they struggled this year. I find the judging correct with P/C being first in the FD; V/M really did enough in the SD to Worlds (deservedly so). Five points is huge to overcome.
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- Feb 20, 2014
I am just telling you what goes on in the ISU dance world. If you would rather not know and believe that everything is on the up and up then please ignore me. I have nothing against B/S but they simply do not deserve the scores they get. I subscribe to, may the best team of the day win. Find someone to discuss this with that is involved in dance at the next ISU competition that you attend.
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- Apr 23, 2014
Tessa and Scott (actually only Scott
) did make a mistake, but Gabriella and Guillaume didn't get really get their levels and had that twizzle issue in the SD, so all things considered both couples weren't perfect, and P/C had the most costly mistakes. I honestly believe that at this stage the judges aren't favouring one team over the other.
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This was already discussed ad nauseam. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.
i just rewatched the free dance:
G/P : too bad, piper mistake on the twizzle. that program is so good, well choreographed. they deserved better score.
B/S: i think sara hurtado should pick the music for zhulin skater. cause when she does zhulin programs worked. sara and krill fd is
they are slow compared to top skaters and they skated far from each other.
C/L: how can you not like this program? it's probably my fav anna and luca program ever. too bad this isn't their olympic program. again not agree with the score, this program deserved more points.
W/P: i can't tell enough nice things about them. they reminded me so much of pechalat and bourzat for ex just like them they are underscored and sacrificed by the judges. but still happy about their 4th places!! again they deserved more points.
C/B: too bad for the mistakes. this year i really like their programs choice. they tried something different and i hope they will continue in that direction. in GPF my mum was about to fall asleep until she heard under pressure!
the shibs: good skate but this program doesn't help them. i mean it's beautiful but you can't create an omg moment with that. again i don't understand their tes score! no mistakes, beauiful movement, great speed. 55,45 in tes. perhaps dostani wanted to leave room for H/D cause i can't understand that low tes.
P/C: :luv17:
perhaps i should put all of the comments made like "they might finished behind the shibs" or " this program isn't good" "not the right vehicule for them" " they don't stand a chance at gold"
V/M: :think: thank you dostani.
H/D the heartbreak of the night. this season they had 3 chances at gpf: twizzles mistake ,at nationals : fall and here : fall. IN ice dance when you're the THIRD team of your contry you usually don't have opportunity to shake things up. not sure this will happen again specially during olympic season.
G/P : too bad, piper mistake on the twizzle. that program is so good, well choreographed. they deserved better score.
B/S: i think sara hurtado should pick the music for zhulin skater. cause when she does zhulin programs worked. sara and krill fd is
they are slow compared to top skaters and they skated far from each other.
C/L: how can you not like this program? it's probably my fav anna and luca program ever. too bad this isn't their olympic program. again not agree with the score, this program deserved more points.
W/P: i can't tell enough nice things about them. they reminded me so much of pechalat and bourzat for ex just like them they are underscored and sacrificed by the judges. but still happy about their 4th places!! again they deserved more points.
C/B: too bad for the mistakes. this year i really like their programs choice. they tried something different and i hope they will continue in that direction. in GPF my mum was about to fall asleep until she heard under pressure!
the shibs: good skate but this program doesn't help them. i mean it's beautiful but you can't create an omg moment with that. again i don't understand their tes score! no mistakes, beauiful movement, great speed. 55,45 in tes. perhaps dostani wanted to leave room for H/D cause i can't understand that low tes.
P/C: :luv17:
perhaps i should put all of the comments made like "they might finished behind the shibs" or " this program isn't good" "not the right vehicule for them" " they don't stand a chance at gold"
V/M: :think: thank you dostani.
H/D the heartbreak of the night. this season they had 3 chances at gpf: twizzles mistake ,at nationals : fall and here : fall. IN ice dance when you're the THIRD team of your contry you usually don't have opportunity to shake things up. not sure this will happen again specially during olympic season.
So many posts related to judges (at least some of them) favouring V/M (against P/C at NHK & Worlds or against S/S at 4C).
For once, one of the Montreal coaches talks about it in this interview
http://www.rtl.be/sport/tous-les-spo...ir-905566.aspx
Original French text -------------------
Les champions olympiques 2010 et vice-champions olympiques 2014 se sont toutefois fait une frayeur quand Moir n'a pas pu éviter un gros déséquilibre sur une séquence de pas.
"Ca ne leur coûte pas très cher", a remarqué Haguenauer, qui entraîne également le tandem canadien
"En étant objectif, j'ai l'impression qu'il y a un petit peu deux poids, deux mesures quand même", a-t-il estimé, en référence aux trois points retirés aux Français la veille sur leurs deux séquences de pas.
English translation ------------------
The 2010 Olympic champions and 2014 Olympic vice-champions felt frightened when Moir stumbled on a step sequence.
"They are not much penalised" noticed Haguenauer, also coach of the Canadian Team.
"Let's be objective, I have the feeling there are double standards" comparing with the 3 points lost by the French on their SD step sequences.
For once, one of the Montreal coaches talks about it in this interview
http://www.rtl.be/sport/tous-les-spo...ir-905566.aspx
Original French text -------------------
Les champions olympiques 2010 et vice-champions olympiques 2014 se sont toutefois fait une frayeur quand Moir n'a pas pu éviter un gros déséquilibre sur une séquence de pas.
"Ca ne leur coûte pas très cher", a remarqué Haguenauer, qui entraîne également le tandem canadien
"En étant objectif, j'ai l'impression qu'il y a un petit peu deux poids, deux mesures quand même", a-t-il estimé, en référence aux trois points retirés aux Français la veille sur leurs deux séquences de pas.
English translation ------------------
The 2010 Olympic champions and 2014 Olympic vice-champions felt frightened when Moir stumbled on a step sequence.
"They are not much penalised" noticed Haguenauer, also coach of the Canadian Team.
"Let's be objective, I have the feeling there are double standards" comparing with the 3 points lost by the French on their SD step sequences.
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your link is broken...
this has been discussed long and large... as the misstep happened at the end of the steps and for some the element was over thus no major deduction.
However, if you are looking for objectivity, you cannot say that the "Montreal coaches" are saying that the judges were biased here... The coach you are quoting is P/C's main coach... yes... they all train in Montreal... but it's not like all of them, Patrice, M-F and Romain sat down and agreed that there was "deux poids, deux mesures"... Patrice or Marie-France may have explained the deductions differently.
Another thing to consider : the mistakes made by the French were not represented in judges deduction but in TECH PANEL deduction.... the judges gave very high points in both GOE and PCS to P/C despite the small mistakes throughout the program.
As a matter of fact, some V/M fans are saying that the judges favoured largely P/C and are worried about the fact that despite mistakes in the SD, the judges scored them so highly...
Regarding the FD : the judges who considered the mistake to be part of the element were not afraid to deduct V/M massively. However, as explained ad nauseam, it's unclear here as the pattern was over... Some judges probably took down points in PCS for that mistake.
One thing is sure : both teams are very strong. They have their strengths and respective weaknesses. I think that the scores for the top two were pretty much handled properly. V/M's SD is stellar.... and it was executed with such zip... perfection... 3 small minor mistakes in a SD for P/C, managing to still keep them in 2nd is quite an achievement.... there are teams like Weapo who nailed everything this year and were still 6th after SD.
In the FD : the French skated better than the Canadians... but the Canadians made ONE mistake.... not 3...
All mistakes are not equal... ask Patrick... no fall...no pop.. but when he didn't manage his combo, tech panel called it a sequence, he lost so many points (about 10) that one tiny lack of flow/balance out of his 3A cost him a chance for a medal.... if he had fallen on a triple jump at the end of the program, he wouldn't have lost as many points...
I am Canadian and a long time fan of V/M but also really like P/C since their Mozart year. They have been my team of preference until V/M came back... I still appreciate both teams and I try to see rational ways of looking at how they have been evaluated... but I feel sorry that this is turning into a fan war. really sorry. yuna13's post above, is an example of not being so objective. She complained for being attacked previously by some V/M fans etc.... (she said the French had made no mistakes were there were obvious mistakes in NHK etc and arguments came out of there)....
However, many of us cooled down the tension here in the threads and welcomed yuna13 warmly again... ancientpeas gave her a very nice virtual hug...
but then, she comes back with a post, which praises pretty much every team who skated in the top ten, and all she writes for VM is :think: thank you dostani.
Why make this about the tech panel??? Is that all there is to say about V/M's gorgeous free dance? Sure, talking about their mistakes is fine... talking about their great lifts and edges is also fine....
Objectivity brings respect.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Speaking for myself, I do not feel any compulsion to be objective.
I liked Cappelli and Lanotte the best. I aslo liked Weaver and Poje and Gilles and Poirier.
Looking forward, I think that Hubbell and Donohue will be given every chance to prove themselves next season on the Grand Prix circuit. I like both Shibutani & Shibutani and Chock & Bates, but I wouldn't mind if H&D shook things up a bit.
Have the rhythms for the short dance been chosen yet for next season?
I liked Cappelli and Lanotte the best. I aslo liked Weaver and Poje and Gilles and Poirier.Looking forward, I think that Hubbell and Donohue will be given every chance to prove themselves next season on the Grand Prix circuit. I like both Shibutani & Shibutani and Chock & Bates, but I wouldn't mind if H&D shook things up a bit.
Have the rhythms for the short dance been chosen yet for next season?
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Rhumba! same as 2011-2012 season.
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