2021 Worlds: Men's SP "Thoughts and Observations"

[TontoK]

IMO a Clean Vincent is still our best bet to fill that 3rd spot. The US can send 3 skaters to Nebelhorn and they should fight it out there.

A clean Vincent is an absolute LOCK to gain the US a third spot. If USA can send three, then I hope they choose some up-and-coming young gun for at least one of them and Paniot for the remaining. It will give both some international exposure at an event that will draw lots of eyes.

As for who is on the actual Olympic Team... the ones who skate best at US Nats. But, you knew I'd say that,

 

[mrrice]

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Impossible, per OWG qualifying rules.

The U.S. will be allowed to send only one man to 2021 Nebelhorn.

I didn't know that. Well, if that's the case, I still say that Vincent should go. He has the highest scoring potential and he earned his position at Nationals. Let's just hope this SP was a freak incident and he'll do well at Nebelhorn.

 

[Arriba627]

Shoma Uno and Kevin Aymoz both have programs that take their inspiration from "native cultures". In Shoma's case this is audible in the music as a reference to Lakota language, chants and religious concepts, but the choreo could have been made literally to any music, the movement does not reflect the original ideas apart from maybe one arm/upper body move in the latter part. In Kevin's case there are no references to known cultures (AFAI could see/hear), but he uses all kinds of movement different from the usual figure skating vocabulary to create a culture of his own. Shoma's take smacks of maybe well-intentioned but still ignorant and quite disrespectul cultural appropriation of Native American culture, Kevin actually manages to do something exciting and cool.

You could hand pick Shoma's music and you wouldn't like it. You just don't like Shoma. Period. That's fine, you don't have to. At least he skated in this competition. I've seen you diss him in competitions where he hasn't even skated.

 

[moonvine]

Vincent has posted on IG that he has an ankle injury that he flew out of state to see a doctor about the week of his outgoing flight to Sweden.

 

[Ross74]

Vincent has posted on IG that he has an ankle injury that he flew out of state to see a doctor about the week of his outgoing flight to Sweden.

Why did he have to go out of state to see a doctor when the OTC and all of its medical resources are just down the street?

 

[moonvine]

Why did he have to go out of state to see a doctor when the OTC and all of its medical resources are just down the street?

No idea. I believe he said his doctor. here is a link https://www.instagram.com/p/CM5bS9un6Tn/?igshid=n38k7m2riib1

 

[el henry]

He does say "his" doctor and he does say "out of state".

I feel so bad for Vincent, he is obviously in a great deal of emotional distress. I never ever want to see anyone have a disaster skate.

That said, why is he going to Worlds in pain and with an ankle injury? Tomoki, Yaro Paniot, Ilia Malinin and others had as good a chance as any skater of making it to the free. Vincent is a young man, this is presumably not his last comp or his last chance to earn a Worlds medal.

No matter how competitive, he needs to look to his health first. Says the skating auntie.

 

[moonvine]

He does say "his" doctor and he does say "out of state".

I feel so bad for Vincent, he is obviously in a great deal of emotional distress. I never ever want to see anyone have a disaster skate.

That said, why is he going to Worlds in pain and with an ankle injury? Tomoki, Yaro Paniot, Ilia Malinin and others had as good a chance as any skater of making it to the free. Vincent is a young man, this is presumably not his last comp or his last chance to earn a Worlds medal.

No matter how competitive, he needs to look to his health first. Says the skating auntie.

I don’t know. But that was my initial thought..why? Of course all athletes want to compete. But if one aggravated an injury competing on it that could be very bad.

 

[TallyT]

He does say "his" doctor and he does say "out of state".

I feel so bad for Vincent, he is obviously in a great deal of emotional distress. I never ever want to see anyone have a disaster skate.

That said, why is he going to Worlds in pain and with an ankle injury? Tomoki, Yaro Paniot, Ilia Malinin and others had as good a chance as any skater of making it to the free. Vincent is a young man, this is presumably not his last comp or his last chance to earn a Worlds medal.

No matter how competitive, he needs to look to his health first. Says the skating auntie.

He is not the first skater to believe it was under control, they could handle it and still do well. He would not - had it worked - have been the first to succeed and be lauded for it. He is now not the first to have misjudged.

I'm not a fan of his, but I am unwilling to judge a young man who after all everything he (like the rest) have been through the last year or so probably desperately wanted to believe he could do it. But it is a pity for the next in line who might have done well.

 

[moonvine]

He does say "his" doctor and he does say "out of state".

I feel so bad for Vincent, he is obviously in a great deal of emotional distress. I never ever want to see anyone have a disaster skate.

That said, why is he going to Worlds in pain and with an ankle injury? Tomoki, Yaro Paniot, Ilia Malinin and others had as good a chance as any skater of making it to the free. Vincent is a young man, this is presumably not his last comp or his last chance to earn a Worlds medal.

No matter how competitive, he needs to look to his health first. Says the skating auntie.

 

[eppen]

You could hand pick Shoma's music and you wouldn't like it. You just don't like Shoma. Period. That's fine, you don't have to. At least he skated in this competition. I've seen you diss him in competitions where he hasn't even skated.

I am a professional in a cultural studies field, I see examples and discussions of cultural appropiration most days in my work. I don't take it lightly. If my favourite skater would do such a thing, I would have to think twice ever liking them again.

After some reflection, I thought of this OD by Rahkamo and Kokko from 1991-2 - the closest I could find one of my skating faves doing something iffy. They are using a classic Finnish polkka tune and are dressed in traditional Sami national costume (my country's problematic cultural appropriation history is related to them). At that time, it was perfectly ok, also like a Miss USA using glamorized Native American dress in a pageant. But in Finland or in the rest of the world today, that could not happen, should not happen.

Choosing that music was a bad idea to begin with - AFAIK it is a piece done by western EDM musicians without any collaboration with the Native American peoples whose religious concepts, language and music are being used. The choreo might not have lots to do with Native American dance styles, but it might have really been a mitigating thing had it been created in collaboration with the Native American peoples. It was first performed as a show number and Shoma had a mock war paint on his face - really? The current costume has clear echoes of beaded leather used in traditional Native American costumes. And it all first happened in 2019-2021 after quite a few years of discussion and talk about cultural appropriation in various cases in figure skating and in the world in general.

Listen or read this long discussion on cultural appropriation and figure skating if you want to know more. Also, a take from the research world on the Domnina/Shabalin case and advice how these things could be done properly and respectfully.

E

 

[Skatesocs]

I am a prosessional in a cultural studies field, I see examples and discussions of cultural appropiration most days in my work. I don't take it lightly. If my favourite skater would do such a thing, I would have to think twice ever liking them again.

After some reflection, I thought of this OD by Rahkamo and Kokko from 1991-2 - the closest I could find one of my skating faves doing something iffy. They are using a classic Finnish polkka tune and are dressed in traditional Sami national costume (my country's problematic cultural appropriation history is related to them). At that time, it was perfectly ok, also like a Miss USA using glamorized Native American dress in a pageant. But in Finland or in the rest of the world today, that could not happen, should not happen.

Choosing that music was a bad idea to begin with - AFAIK it is a piece done by western EDM musicians without any collaboration with the Native American peoples whose religious concepts, language and music are being used. The choreo might not have lots to do with Native American dance styles, but it might have really been a mitigating thing had it been created in collaboration with the Native American peoples. It was first performed as a show number and Shoma had a mock war paint on his face - really? The current costume has clear echoes of beaded leather used in traditional Native American costumes. And it all first happened in 2019-2021 after quite a few years of discussion and talk about cultural appropriation in various cases in figure skating and in the world in general.

Listen or read this long discussion on cultural appropriation and figure skating if you want to know more. Also, a take from the research world on the Domnina/Shabalin case and advice how these things could be done properly and respectfully.

E

Oh wow, thanks! Unusual to see substantial work in the field of figure skating.

 

[Arriba627]

I am a prosessional in a cultural studies field, I see examples and discussions of cultural appropiration most days in my work. I don't take it lightly. If my favourite skater would do such a thing, I would have to think twice ever liking them again.

I suggest you contact Shae Lynne Bourne with your concerns. This is all old news. The program was debuted in June of 2018 and the topic was beaten to death at that point. There were many opinions contrary to yours, but then you always state your opinions as if they're facts.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Finally caught up on the men in preparation for tonight's FS.

I'm rolling my eyes so hard at the Yuzu super fans who are screaming in fury. He's nearly 10 points ahead of Nathan. Come on, what the Hell? Do they so little have faith in their fave they don't think he can win with that lead? It's actually offensive.

I enjoyed Yuma, what a firecracker! And Deniss got sexy on us

Super happy for Donovan! Looking forward to his FS!

 

[eppen]

I suggest you contact Shae Lynne Bourne with your concerns. This is all old news. The program was debuted in June of 2018 and the topic was beaten to death at that point. There were many opinions contrary to yours, but then you always state your opinions as if they're facts.

I would be very curious to see how the postive case for doing that was argued - can you direct me to where it was discussed or give a summary of what was said?

E

 

[Greengemmonster]

Late to the party but I would not be mad if Hanyu kept that SP for another cycle. It is such an awesome, entertaining program and we barely got to see it in action.

 

[karne]

A clean Vincent is an absolute LOCK to gain the US a third spot.

And, supposedly, Vincent was an "absolute LOCK" to finish high enough to gain three spots here, at Worlds, too.

Perhaps we should avoid terms like absolute LOCK? The ice is slippery. As Vincent just showed.

That said, why is he going to Worlds in pain and with an ankle injury? Tomoki, Yaro Paniot, Ilia Malinin and others had as good a chance as any skater of making it to the free.

For goodness' sake, this was discussed ad nauseum after US Nationals, I don't know why it's so hard for people to get. Yaroslav Paniot cannot skate internationally for the US yet. He hasn't been released. He will not be released until November - he probably can't even go to Nebelhorn!

I suggest you contact Shae Lynne Bourne with your concerns. This is all old news. The program was debuted in June of 2018 and the topic was beaten to death at that point. There were many opinions contrary to yours, but then you always state your opinions as if they're facts.

I also happen to think Shoma's Great Spirit program is entirely inappropriate, will my opinion also be dismissed as that of a hater? Because from what I have observed, "cute little Shoma" is getting a wildly irritating pass for something that really should be way more controversial.

 

[Arriba627]

I also happen to think Shoma's Great Spirit program is entirely inappropriate, will my opinion also be dismissed as that of a hater? Because from what I have observed, "cute little Shoma" is getting a wildly irritating pass for something that really should be way more controversial.

You missed the whole gist of my original post.