2023 World Junior Men's Free Skate

[4everchan]

Be ready for it... Wesley may compete a mix of junior and senior next year...

 

[NanaPat]

There is already an ISU rule that excludes skaters who do JGP from doing GP and vice versa. If the ISU wanted to forbid skaters from category hopping in ISU championships (or challengers), there would be a rule.

Those unhappy about this, can blame the ISU... not the skater... nor their team.

Also, a few years ago they changed the rules so TES for junior championships have to be earned in jr comps and TES for senior championships have to be earned in senior comps. I thought this was aimed at sending straight-up juniors to 4CC, but what do I know?

 

[YuBluByMe]

The Federation ? Why? They are entitled to make their own selection as long as they follow the ISU rules. Even if they have guidelines and they do not follow them to a T... that is still their prerogative... They have a talented skater. He didn't do well enough at home... They wanted to nurture him and give him some confidence by giving him some opportunities to compete.

Only that JFed did follow their criteria to a T, except for Miura’s selection. Also, he wasn’t named to the Junior team to “nurture him and give him confidence and opportunities.” That’s what naming him to 4CC was for. They named him because they wanted the three spots back and didn’t trust the juniors to get the job done.

Wesley competed senior all year... and did badly all year...

Which is precisely why you wouldn’t hear a peep from me.

 

[4everchan]

Also, a few years ago they changed the rules so TES for junior championships have to be earned in jr comps and TES for senior championships have to be earned in senior comps. I thought this was aimed at sending straight-up juniors to 4CC, but what do I know?

I am not sure what their aim was, probably so that junior skaters with high scores compete in senior challengers/B events before hitting the ISU championships or Olympics... for the other way around, the TES minimums last long enough for skaters to compete senior all season and use their former junior TES minimums to enter junior worlds

 

[4everchan]

Only that JFed did follow their criteria to a T, except for Miura’s selection. Also, he wasn’t named to the Junior team to “nurture him and give him confidence and opportunities.” That’s what naming him to 4CC was for. They named him because they wanted the three spots back and didn’t trust the other juniors did get the job done.

Which is precisely why you wouldn’t hear a peep from me.

first point : can you really blame them to want those three spots back considering the talent they have? Fair game...
second point : so if a skater struggles, the rules are fine... but if a skater is good, the rules should be different? Ask @el henry to explain to you how that doesn't work out

 

[yuumagical]

Wesley could have corrected that.,, but he didn't so... you know.. a double axel instead of a pop and that was it ... at some point, Wesley will need to learn to be confident or to make sure he can skate with confidence by selecting an easier layout... and Nozomu will learn to fix his quality and connection...

If they don't succeed, we won't be talking about them for very long... Competitive sport is not easy.

I would have loved to have seen Wesley do that as well, I've really appreciated seeing him these past couple of seasons. Maybe the pressure of a home Junior Worlds got to him.

Heck, maybe even Lucas could have had a shot if he hadn't gone for the quad and stuck with some type of easier triple that he could get better GOE from. Getting good GOE is his strength, not 100% sure why he went for the quad after falling on it in the warmup like that.

But there's always that risk/reward ratio to doing more difficult elements, isn't there? Is trying the difficult element enough to get good experience from it, even if one pops or falls on it? Sure, I'm aware that that ratio is biased more towards doing the quad, even with a fall, than not doing the quad. That kind of calculus is something every skater should be able to decide for themselves on, though, and not something we fans can ultimately decide on.

We may not talk about them much if they don't succeed...but I really hope to not see another skater like Alexander Samarin out there, being successful on technical elements but with zero connection to the music.

 

[yelyoh]

Some people are just meant to be blocked so I block.

Back to Jr, Men's I want to reiterate how happy I am for Naoki. I remember seeing him for the first time perhaps three years ago and liking him. He always seemed disappointed in his outcomes or scores so it's nice to see how hard he has worked on upping his game and getting results. Silver is huge for him and he can spend another year as a jr if he chooses.

And again good for Arlet; he is really special and I just noticed him this year. He does need some work on his jumps and I'm not convinced mom can bring him to the next level. He's 18 so not that young and he does need a 3A at least.

 

[Holy Headband]

Because he competed senior all year and has been competitive in seniors all year. This is his first junior competition and he was chosen over other junior skaters in Japan. JFed actually went against their selection criteria in choosing him. That’s why.

The majority of skaters that double-dip aren’t even competitive in either sector. Last year, Ilia was a special case. He competed at the junior level internationally and he was always going to Junior Worlds. It was naming him to Worlds that was the outlier, not the other way around.

So wait, let me get this straight. "A junior skater who's competed in more junior than senior competitions over the course of the season can still be assigned to senior Worlds, but a junior skater who's competed in more senior than junior competitions cannot go to junior Worlds because of reasons." Somehow I don't see the ISU going for this one.

 

[TallyT]

Be ready for it... Wesley may compete a mix of junior and senior next year...

I personally think it's good for the more advanced juniors to be able to dip into the seniors field and get some of that level experience, while not losing the right to compete with their peers (not every boy can be a Plushenko or Hanyu and dive ice-skates first into the seniors field at 16, or was it 15?).

Miura is 17. He competed against boys younger and older than him.

 

[4everchan]

I would have loved to have seen Wesley do that as well, I've really appreciated seeing him these past couple of seasons. Maybe the pressure of a home Junior Worlds got to him.

Heck, maybe even Lucas could have had a shot if he hadn't gone for the quad and stuck with some type of easier triple that he could get better GOE from. Getting good GOE is his strength, not 100% sure why he went for the quad after falling on it in the warmup like that.

But there's always that risk/reward ratio to doing more difficult elements, isn't there? Is trying the difficult element enough to get good experience from it, even if one pops or falls on it? Sure, I'm aware that that ratio is biased more towards doing the quad, even with a fall, than not doing the quad. That kind of calculus is something every skater should be able to decide for themselves on, though, and not something we fans can ultimately decide on.

We may not talk about them much if they don't succeed...but I really hope to not see another skater like Alexander Samarin out there, being successful on technical elements but with zero connection to the music.

yeah... of course.. I mean... i know athletes want to compete as hard as they can... so yeah Wesley certainly can do that quad toe... and wanted to do it... it's of course easy for us to analyse and see he is 4 points away from bronze and even just rotating his quads with bad GOE would have given him that... or doing easier 2 axels... etc...

I think it got to me because of seeing him struggle on the quads all year...


The Czech team today in dance, toned down their very exciting lifts that cause them big mistakes earlier this season... it paid off...

If Wesley is subject to popping jumps because of nerves, it may be a good idea to put only one in there... and allow him to do a nice 3-3 in the second half... and just that, may mean that he would succeed the first quad. Conrad has done that twice this year... he left out the 2nd quad toe and did a triple.. that earned him a trip to 4cc and then to worlds...

 

[YuBluByMe]

first point : can you really blame them to want those three spots back considering the talent they have? Fair game...

I can blame them (and I do) because they don’t need Miura to keep the spots. They were at least two that competed at junior level that could have done the job.

second point : so if a skater struggles, the rules are fine... but if a skater is good, the rules should be different?

You’re not getting it. It’s more than being good. Take Repond for example. She just medalled at Europeans and yet she was also at Junior Worlds. I have no issues with that because she’s where she belongs. She’s a junior skater through and through. I would have a problem if she competed on the senior GP, medalled there with high scores, won Europeans, and beaten the top women. In this case, she has no business at Junior Worlds. But she’s really not that competitive on the senior level is she? Miura most certainly is. It’s about being a SENIOR skater competing in a junior field.

 

[YuBluByMe]

So wait, let me get this straight. "A junior skater who's competed in more junior than senior competitions over the course of the season can still be assigned to senior Worlds, but a junior skater who's competed in more senior than junior competitions cannot go to junior Worlds because of reasons." Somehow I don't see the ISU going for this one.

But I’m not saying that.

 

[4everchan]

I can blame them (and I do) because they don’t need Miura to keep the spots. They were at least two that competed at junior level that could have done the job.

You’re not getting it. It’s more than being good. Take Repond for example. She just medalled at Europeans and yet she was also at Junior Worlds. I have no issues with that because she’s where she belongs. She’s a junior skater through and through. I would have a problem if she competed on the senior GP, medalled there with high scores, won Europeans, and beaten the top women. In this case, she has no business at Junior Worlds. But she’s really not that competitive on the senior level is she? Miura most certainly is. It’s about being a SENIOR skater competing in a junior field.

i am getting what you are saying... the problem with it is that the ISU has to make logical rules... and what you are saying is purely anecdotal and cannot be evaluated objectively or logically. Saying Repond is where she belongs in juniors, though she medaled at Euros but Miura is not in his place in juniors after his 4CC win (or whatever other competition in seniors that he won) becomes a double standard.

 

[4everchan]

in any case, thank you all for co-watching these 4 days of intense skating ! I don't think i will be as free for senior worlds.. which pains me... but then... who knows.. i may become a night owl and forget that i have a day life Cheerio !

 

[TallyT]

I can blame them (and I do) because they don’t need Miura to keep the spots. They were at least two that competed at junior level that could have done the job.

You’re not getting it. It’s more than being good. Take Repond for example. She just medalled at Europeans and yet she was also at Junior Worlds. I have no issues with that because she’s where she belongs. She’s a junior skater through and through. I would have a problem if she competed on the senior GP, medalled there with high scores, won Europeans, and beaten the top women. In this case, she has no business at Junior Worlds. But she’s really not that competitive on the senior level is she? Miura most certainly is. It’s about being a SENIOR skater competing in a junior field.

Meaning you think there should be a right to pick and choose and decide on some sort of nebulous criteria of "I think they feel like a senior or junior!" who should not be allowed to follow the current ISU rules and who should be allowed to benefit from them.

If Repond was okay to be here, if Malinin was last year, then Miura is too. Any argument against is just fannish bias and while I am as guilty of that as anyone, i don't think I am here (I like Miura, but I do not think he's the budding superstar they are predicting).

 

[Jammers]

Be ready for it... Wesley may compete a mix of junior and senior next year...

Exactly what Junior events can he do next season and how would that not be a setback since he moved up this season? I doubt he wants to go to Junior Worlds yet again which would mean he didn't make the Senior world team which will be wide open next season with no Keegan around. With the lack of depth in Canadian men this should be his last go around in Juniors.

 

[Jammers]

i am getting what you are saying... the problem with it is that the ISU has to make logical rules... and what you are saying is purely anecdotal and cannot be evaluated objectively or logically. Saying Repond is where she belongs in juniors, though she medaled at Euros but Miura is not in his place in juniors after his 4CC win (or whatever other competition in seniors that he won) becomes a double standard.

Kind of tells you about the competition with the Euro Ladies that Repond wins a medal there but fails to make the podium against the Junior ladies.

 

[YuBluByMe]

Meaning you think there should be a right to pick and choose and decide on some sort of nebulous criteria of "I think they feel like a senior or junior!" who should not be allowed to follow the current ISU rules and who should be allowed to benefit from them.

If Repond was okay to be here, if Malinin was last year, then Miura is too. Any argument against is just fannish bias and while I am as guilty of that as anyone, i don't think I am here (I like Miura, but I do not think he's the budding superstar they are predicting).

I really don’t think I’m being bias; I don’t even like Repond that much, although I do appreciate her drive. But I do agree that the criteria should be cut-and-dried and standardized across the board. The way I’m thinking the rules should be, the results would be: Repond out. Malinin out (this year, but not last), Miura out. Kagiyama out. And so on and so forth.

 

[lariko]

Well, the good and precious thing was Rossi. Also, this time Broussard actually looked like himself, arms and all, apart from going down hard, unfortunately. Unlike Reuter, Chiu couldn’t handle the home country’s support.

Save for Japan doing everyone a dirty there with Miura—which we knew from the start—I thought they could have been less greedy and resolved Kim vs Yoshioka or Memola vs Yoshioka in favour of not Yoshioka. Yoshioka has crazy high rotation but it’s so wild, most of his landings are precarious. I didn’t really see much in terms of a program, when Kim and Memola both did… but then again, Yoshioka was pushed down maybe in the short, so maybe they are compensating.

At any rate, would have preferred Kim or Memola with bronze.

Everything else was pretty much unmitigated disaster from start to finish. I think I got sad from Zich onward and didn’t get cheered up until Kim skated.

 

[4everchan]

Exactly what Junior events can he do next season and how would that not be a setback since he moved up this season? I doubt he wants to go to Junior Worlds yet again which would mean he didn't make the Senior world team which will be wide open next season with no Keegan around. With the lack of depth in Canadian men this should be his last go around in Juniors.

I am not ready to say there will be no depth in Canadian men next season... but if we look at this year, even after nationals, the selection for worlds was pending. So there is absolutely no guarantee for Wesley that he would secure a spot for home worlds. Nationals will be very dramatic in all events next year. It's wise for him to already keep his options open.