Brexit or Bremain? What's your take?

[Spinning]

Today's the day!

I'm interested to hear what your opinions on the subject (especially from people outside the UK).

Here some links on the UK's EU Referendum:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/eu-referendum

https://next.ft.com/eu-referendum

 

[Naya]

Hi, I'm from Brazil.

As an armchair political analyst, I think "Bremain" will prevail, basically because people tends to keep the status quo, and they will fear the Brexit's consequences. Plus the "Bremain" campaign seems to be much more expressive and with more external support. Honestly, I think european politicians have been quite histerical about how bad things will be if UK leaves EU - the western civilization colapse is very unlikely. LOL

 

[MalAssada]

Another Brazilian here.
Were I British, I would stay. When there is an economic crisis (as there is in Brazil right now) I would try to look at the reason why the crisis reached my country (bad management? too much dependency to countries already deep on crisis?) before blaming the economic group.

 

[sneakers]

for now Bremain will prevail , but the EU doesn't have long the future, it was founded on the Franco-German principle to avoid another European Continental War BUT

it has too much economic, demographic and cultural imbalance, they are absorbing more eastern countries in EU to get more cheap labor but isn't enough so migration is needed, yet these new migrants have kinship and devotion to their religious and cultural heritage, integration will be impossible

I hear France is most atheist country in EU or is it UK ?
I wonder how it will look like when the EU finally collapses ? I think it will be the same as the USSR , the rise of Nationalism will start the chopping off the block, it's going to get messy in countries like Spain and UK , facing referendums in Catalonia, Scotland.

I give EU another 10 or 20 years max, before it collapses. even with this new type of colonialism it wont work anymore, it would have worked until the 18th century for integration of peoples like New Australia but with todays digital age, I don't think so. The weight of its religious, culture, economic divide will be too much.

 

[solani]

Bremain. I believe in the EU, with all it's faults it should become better in time and it would be a pity to lose the UK.

I hear France is most atheist country in EU or is it UK ?
I wonder how it will look like when the EU finally collapses ?

UK has always wanted a special treatment from the EU. Nothing wrong with that, the bigger countries, like France certainly can put pressure on the EU, because they pay a lot of money into it. But it's not that the smaller countries can be really forced to do anything they don't want to. Even when they're getting massive financial support from the EU. So it's about money and the biggest problem is, that the EU politicians are not chosen by the people living in the EU. This has the feel of an unwanted elite who's controlling everything. That's what the right-wing populists take an advantage of.

 

[sneakers]

Bremain. I believe in the EU, with all it's faults it should become better in time and it would be a pity to lose the UK.


UK has always wanted a special treatment from the EU. Nothing wrong with that, the bigger countries, like France certainly can put pressure on the EU, because they pay a lot of money into it. But it's not that the smaller countries can be really forced to do anything they don't want to. Even when they're getting massive financial support from the EU. So it's about money and the biggest problem is, that the EU politicians are not chosen by the people living in the EU. This has the feel of an unwanted elite who's controlling everything. That's what the right-wing populists take an advantage of.

but isn't it ? If most EU politicians aren't elected by the people this makes them look like liberal Elites or corporate Elites

the EU's future is so gloomy, even with desire for trade and China just cannot be stopped, thousands of years ago Europe and the whole of Eurasia was trading with China
it looks to be China will again be the center of World Economy like it has been for thousands of years stretching even before the founding of the Roman Empire

 

[solani]

but isn't it ? If most EU politicians aren't elected by the people this makes them look like liberal Elites or corporate Elites

I think that this is one of the things that has to change. So that the people living in the EU know that they have influence. Sometimes I guess we all think that the EU politicians are just sitting in Brussels, waiting for there heavy paychecks and inviting expensive call girls for evening amusement with their advocacy groups.

I think we have to differentiate beween Europe's future and the future of the EU. I think that Europe's future would be gloomier without the EU. But what the EU is now is certainly not enough. But most of the countries don't want "more". They want less, but more money.

 

[deedee1]

I'm a Japanese and hope The Britain remains.

I maybe a dreamer but I also hope the EU itself will last long. Everybody knows the system is not perfect, yet, nor fair, thus needs lots of adjustments for sure. Nobody knows how long it will last. It may collapse in the end. However, for outsiders from Europe like myself it's very fascinating to witness people from different origins, different languages, different culture, different religions, different sense of values and such, trying to organize a union/community, to manage it, and to further develop it against all odds. Isn't it wonderful that people can travel, live, work and study wherever they like within EU. And one of its fundamental ideas of EC was to avoid another tragic war(s) within Europe, wasn't it? Despite what's happening in every parts of the world we see every day, it gives me a hope. A dreamer, probably yes but I want to believe it. :yes:

 

[snowflake]

Polls in Sweden and Norway in 1994:
Norway 52,2 against and 47,8 for
Sweden 52,3 for and 46,8 against (0,9 neither)

I voted against and I think I would do that again. I want collaboration between nations, but not this bureaucratic crowd constantly commuting back and forth from their homes to Brussels or/and Strasbourg. I think every country should make their own business deals with whoever they want. Collaboration should be about terror/criminal fighting, environment issues, helping refugees, combating famine and such. And that with any country in- or outside Europe. You don’t need a costly European headquarter for that.

When it comes to serious issues like helping refugees EU has no power. Some EU counttries do all they can to help and some just shut the door…. and EU can do nothing.

Lol, all right, I’m not an economic expert or political either for that matter. Anyway, I think none can predict what will happen if UK leaves; it’s too complex. And how soon would it happen? I’m sure there must be a period of notice?

Lots of speculations on the outcome for individuals, businesses, the market, nations in- or outside EU etc etc if Brexit wins. A curious me would like to know

Finally my thoughts go to Jo Cox who was killed for her convictions; very sad.

 

[sneakers]

I'm a Japanese and hope The Britain remains.

I maybe a dreamer but I also hope the EU itself will last long. Everybody knows the system is not perfect, yet, nor fair, thus needs lots of adjustments for sure. Nobody knows how long it will last. It may collapse in the end. However, for outsiders from Europe like myself it's very fascinating to witness people from different origins, different languages, different culture, different religions, different sense of values and such, trying to organize a union/community, to manage it, and to further develop it against all odds. Isn't it wonderful that people can travel, live, work and study wherever they like within EU. And one of its fundamental ideas of EC was to avoid another tragic war(s) within Europe, wasn't it? Despite what's happening in every parts of the world we see every day, it gives me a hope. A dreamer, probably yes but I want to believe it. :yes:

from different origins, different languages, different culture, different religions, different sense of values and such
they already tried that.. the USSR and look where that ended up, in ancient times you can look up Babylon, and the Roman Empire

the EU is a liberal version of the USSR, it's elites are unelected by the people, like all colonial mold it will collapse under its own weight, 10 years from now it will make a huge demographic shift, this tensions will include religious, cultural and ethnic divide then there goes the domino effect. Europe is expected mostly to be a godless continent by 2045 with the exceptions of Turkey, Albania, Poland and Russia keeping their religions in tact.

Europe has always and will be tribal, it is the only continent where it spent most of its years invading and fighting their neighboring countries for influence.

 

[solani]

from different origins, different languages, different culture, different religions, different sense of values and such
they already tried that.. the USSR and look where that ended up, in ancient times you can look up Babylon, and the Roman Empire

the EU is a liberal version of the USSR, it's elites are unelected by the people, like all colonial mold it will collapse under its own weight, 10 years from now it will make a huge demographic shift, this tensions will include religious, cultural and ethnic divide then there goes the domino effect. Europe is expected mostly to be a godless continent by 2045 with the exceptions of Turkey, Albania, Poland and Russia keeping their religions in tact.

Europe has always and will be tribal, it is the only continent where it spent most of its years invading and fighting their neighboring countries for influence.

I wouldn't say that the countries, at least in Western Europe, are so very different. Quite the opposite actually. All are Christians countries and the values and cultures aren't different. And there is a certain feel of togetherness, I don't know wether the Eastern European countries are feeling that as well. Probably not so much, but those things take a a couple of years. The real problem is that we get the feeling that the EU cares more about the crook of bananas than about important issues like letting us know what TTIP would really be all about. But they're discussing those issues in small hidden rooms somewhere in Brussels and any reporting on that topic is prohibited. That's also where the right-wing populist join the discussion, not that they really care what chemicals are in cosmetics, but they know how to seed fear. Then add a couple of refugees into the mix and the EU is struggling. No, not struggling, but totally incapable of acting. It's disapointing, but I haven't given up on the EU yet, because I believe in the idea.

 

[Pamigena]

Anyway, I think none can predict what will happen if UK leaves; it’s too complex. And how soon would it happen? I’m sure there must be a period of notice?

Sort of. From what I understand, they have to hand in an official note saying "we're outta here", and then for the time being everything stays as it is. Because then the negotiations begin. They'll need new trade agreements, and what will happen to EU citizens living/working in the UK, and British citizens living/working somewhere in Europe, then there's EU laws that may or may not become part of British law, yada yada yada. Lots of things to consider. I heard that it would be at least 2 years, maybe longer, until they would be able to actually leave for good.

 

[sneakers]

I wouldn't say that the countries, at least in Western Europe, are so very different. Quite the opposite actually. All are Christians countries and the values and cultures aren't different. And there is a certain feel of togetherness, I don't know wether the Eastern European countries are feeling that as well. Probably not so much, but those things take a a couple of years. The real problem is that we get the feeling that the EU cares more about the crook of bananas than about important issues like letting us know what TTIP would really be all about. But they're discussing those issues in small hidden rooms somewhere in Brussels and any reporting on that topic is prohibited. That's also where the right-wing populist join the discussion, not that they really care what chemicals are in cosmetics, but they know how to seed fear. Then add a couple of refugees into the mix and the EU is struggling. No, not struggling, but totally incapable of acting. It's disapointing, but I haven't given up on the EU yet, because I believe in the idea.

maybe for most western europe there is that sort of togetherness but for eastern europe, always being suspicious of back deals, the history of being partitioned and being colonies of bigger euro countries, they will feel exploited in the long run, sure they are getting alot of EU subsidies now but that will dry up soon once cheaper labor becomes more available from recent economic migrants.

As European demographic shifts in 10 years, the migrants bringing in their culture as it will fill the current atheist void with their cultural and religious heritage.

 

[Spinning]

First to Declare: Gibraltar. REMAIN 19,322 LEAVE 823.

I am in the Brexit camp but I believe the Bremain will win. I'm on my phone now so will add more thought later.

 

[boskil]

As European demographic shifts in 10 years, the migrants bringing in their culture as it will fill the current atheist void with their cultural and religious heritage.

I doubt 500m people are gonna let this happening on their streets, because there is an atheist void: http://tinyurl.com/zymyjas
Sooner or later they're gonna raise and there will be bloodbath.
Then of course leftists are gonna come up with next "ism" and history will repeat itself...

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

First to Declare: Gibraltar. REMAIN 19,322 LEAVE 823.

I am in the Brexit camp but I believe the Bremain will win. I'm on my phone now so will add more thought later.

Sayonara!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

It is relatively close, but with only 50 constituencies in England left to declare, it is looking like leave is going to get it.

Which is what I wanted. (I'm a great believer that decisions should be made closer to the local level).

HOWEVER, with the way the results have gone in the 4 nations, it is going to get very messy.

The Scottish National Party was backing the remain campaign. And Scotland voted to remain. So, that will give the SNP the opportunity to call for another independence referendum.

Similarly, over here, Sinn Fein was backing the remain campaign. Although it was close, the majority of Northern Ireland voters said remain. So, that will give Sinn Fein the opportunity to call for a border poll (basically, a referendum to get rid of the border and have the 6 Counties join the Republic).

And both parties will use the economy as their excuse.

You see, if Scotland was a member of the EU in its own right, it would be one of the smaller members. So, it would be able to get a lot more subsidies than it currently does as part of the UK, which is one of the wealthier members.

Ireland is already in this position. So, if Northern Ireland joined the Republic, we would be able to have access to their subsidies.

Plaid Cymru was also backing the remain campaign. But, Wales voted to leave by a small majority. And anyway, I have no idea if they have any notions of using it to get independence for Wales.

The next 2 years (the period it will take to withdraw) are going to be interesting...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Alexz]

So far Leave is winning.

 

[Alexz]

Now what will happen legally ?

Doesn't Cameron still have the right to not call for the article 50 and open negotiations to have new opt outs and calm his people, or the referendum by itself is legally an application of the article ?

 

[HanDomi]

Now what will happen legally ?

Doesn't Cameron still have the right to not call for the article 50 and open negotiations to have new opt outs and calm his people, or the referendum by itself is legally an application of the article ?

if he doesn't respect decision of people then he will just prove that democracy is illusion and a joke

 

[Alexz]

Japan’s Nikkei index has slumped by 7%, a loss of over 1,100 points. That is its worst one-day fall since March 2011, when Fukushima was hit by a devastating earthquake that trigged a tsunami and a nuclear disaster.

British pound is down. Euro is also tanking vs the USD at -4%to 1.10. It's about to fall below 1.10.

Market is gonna be hot today..