Brexit or Bremain? What's your take?
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The situation is very complicated.
I think this is the result of the preferential status that UK had from the very beginning within EU.
Without this, maybe people from UK would have developed a sense of belonging to the Union because as Tusk said you are in the Union in good times but also in bad times. EU is also about solidarity and compromise.
With this referendum the ambiguous relation EU-UK is over. Thinks are clear and I just hope that the EU leaders will be clear that a leave is a leave and there is no concession anymore.
Of course, EU is far from being perfect, but it brought many good things, and first of all it brought stability, peace and a sort of prosperity.
People tend to forget these things easily.
Tusk is the least one I would listen in anything. I am Pole, so I know something about results of his decisions
EU only on paper is about solidarity. In reality it's all about Germany and France
Tusk is the least one I would listen in anything. I am Pole, so I know something about results of his decisions
Of course there are the interests of the big "powers". but overall I think the EU had positive effects for everyone.
I would go with the idea to look to the future, to a reformed Union, with less bureaucracy and more people - oriented, and not to go back to the nation-states.
History showed that in time of crisis the extremist parties took the power and brought war and disputes. I hope we won't repeat the past mistake and look to a bright future.
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Tusk is the least one I would listen in anything. I am Pole, so I know something about results of his decisions
EU only on paper is about solidarity. In reality it's all about Germany and France
it was founded as Franco-German, but is now actually just a union governed by Germany, can you believe Merkel makes all decisions about immigration, trade lol
Britain was the counterweight to Germany, some EU countries will always harbor suspicion on a strong Germany alone.
I'm sorry but EU has no long term future it will eventually collapse fueled by nationalism and populism
its just a matter of when, those migrants by 20 years the EU will get its after effects.
The thing is Ue will collapse anyway if it will be going the way it is. The whole thing with immigrants just fueled anti UE feeling in people. Yes, I know it would be great to do everything with love, tolerance and being open to everyone but sometimes hard decision needs to be made for the better future, and they were not.
The worst scenario is if Turkey would get to the UE.
this will be the nail in the coffin for the EU. Weren't they granting visa free travel for Turkey, what happened to that ?
No and no. The right wing populists are always talking this nonsense. No visa free travel if Turkey isn't fulfilling certain requirements that they aren't willing to fulfill anyway. And Turkey is not going to become a member of the EU, not in the near future anyway. Who knows what's going to happen in 25 years?
Can't resist:
Quote:
"'Brexit' to be followed by Grexit. Departugal. Italeave. Fruckoff. Czechout. Oustria. Finish. Slovakout. Latervia. Byegium. UkraIN"
whats Fruckoff, France ?
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I agree that NI is in a sticky situation with this result. Border control is a complication to both sides of Ireland. But for the Scots, after a while they will realise that they won't get enough back for their contribution to the EU, what then? Another referendum? After last election, it might not be possible to change all 2M In-voters to get enough to be out of the UK in the first place (according to some experts from Glasglow anyway).
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I think you just provided a clip that describes most people's feelings about politicians.
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As far as the UK exiting the EU, today for people in the UK there is a celebration happening, but when the confetti settles the questions will have to be answered:
- What happens to their relationship with countries in the EU
- What happens to the countries like N. Ireland and Scotland that voted to stay.
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To be honest, I don't think much will change. Germany will probably be quite frosty towards us for a while, but in the long run, it'll settled down back to normal.
I've mentioned a few times in this thread that the SNP have called for a second independence referendum for Scotland, and Sinn Fein have called for a border poll in Northern Ireland.
However, Theresa Villiers, our Secretary of State (the national government's representative in Northern Ireland), has said that the criteria to hold a border poll has not been met. And that every opinion poll held over the past 5 or 6 years has shown that there is no desire on either side of the border for a united Ireland.
So, despite Sinn Fein's calls for one, she does't see a border poll being held any time soon.
As for Scotland, I feel they are rushing into things calling for an independence referendum so soon. Like, they don't know all the facts yet.
Let's face it, when the first referendum was held, Scotland was told that it would not automatically become a EU member if it broke away from the UK. It would have to apply to join, and go through all the processes that any other applicant would have to go through. And they would not get all the concessions that they currently enjoy.
So, what would be different this time?!
Perhaps with the UK leaving the EU, the people in Brussels could pull a few strings so that an independent Scotland could "inherit" the UK's place in the bloc. But, there has been no mention yet of that being a possibility.
And, if Scotland does get independence in the near future, but then the EU implodes shortly afterwards, they will be left high and dry.
So better to let the dust settle first, and then think about whether independence is the way to go.
Border controls will have to return in some form, but I was reading on Facebook a comment from somebody who lives in Norway (outside the EU) near the border with Sweden (in the EU). And they were saying that although there are border checkpoints, that it is only ever trucks that are stopped and searched. Everybody else is able to pass through relatively easily.
When I was a youngster, there was a small army base in my hometown (as there was in all medium sized towns), and they had security checkpoints either side of it on the main street (as there was outside all army bases). And all they did was look at my Dad's driving licence, look at him to see if it was the same person, and then wave us through. And that was it.
So, I can't see any new border controls being much different to this. Hey, if we could put up with it then, we could put up with it now! And anyway, if you are going down the N1 motorway to Dublin, you have to stop once anyway to pay the toll to enter Co. Meath. So, one more stop won't add that much time to your journey.
With regards to Visas, I don't think that will happen. Too much hassle for all involved. But, if it does, I have the luxury of having an Irish passport as well as a British passport. So, it will just be a case of using the Irish one more often.
That is the beauty of being from Northern Ireland: you are automatically entitled to both!
And on that subject, if you have at least one Irish parent or grandparent, you can get an Irish passport. Consequently, in the run-up to the referendum, there was a surge in applications to the Irish passport office from people in Great Britain. And due to the result of the referendum, there will be even more applications now!
Hey, with the high prices they charge for passports, it might even rescue the entire Irish economy!
As for the Euro, I can see the advantages of having different countries using the same currency. Less confusion. But, as somebody who collects foreign money (coins and notes), I don't like it! It's more interesting when there is more variety.
By the way, a lot of people in Ireland don't like the Euro. They preferred it when they had the Punt. Mind you, a lot of that may be because prices rocketed when the new currency was adopted...
CaroLiza_fan
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Less than a day passed, China, India, ASEAN and...surprise surprise...the Us approach UK for a trade talks. EU HQ jumps in kicking and screaming that they don't allow us to sign any trade deals for the next 2 years. Germany, the one who most likely will have to pick up the tab left by the Brexit, generously offer the new position for the UK. Associated Country to the EU? Seriously, what happened to "Out is Out" attitude from yesterday?
Britons showed 'losing mindset', say Chinese media in swipe at leave vote
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dset-say-chinese-media-in-swipe-at-leave-vote
EU leaders only said that the negotiations should start right away, no declarations on the UK status were made, whether it will be an Associated Country or not.
Talks between EU leaders will take place today, and next week is the European Council.
Probably after that we'll have more info on the future relation between EU-UK.
Yesterday the UE had a meeting from what I've read, and they suggested strategy for UE after Brexit. And if it's true what I've read what that "strategy" is , I'm just shocked and expect few more exit's sooner or later. No nation states, everything controlled only from European parliament, more immigrants.... I hope it's actually not true.
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