- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Joesitz said:The nonfans of Kimmie are already ganging up for the Underrotated 3A and this before she even attempts it.
Joe
it never stops.... such is the life of a skating fan
Joesitz said:The nonfans of Kimmie are already ganging up for the Underrotated 3A and this before she even attempts it.
Joe
Doggygirl said:Actually, I think the ISU rules are pretty clear. The "cutoff" for a jump to be considered fully rotated is stated as being no more than 1/4 turn under rotated. That's the technical callers job to catch. The entrances, exits, air postions, difficult entrances, etc, I believe are pretty well defined under the GOE criteria, which is the judge's job to determine. While the judges and/or technical callers may be either making mistakes, or just over looking certain things (possibly flutzing) I do believe the criteria are pretty well laid out there for a subjective sport.
Just my thoughts - I'd be interested to see if others have also read the ISU rules and have different opinions.
DG - from Pittsburgh today.
antmanb said:I
* Actually having read that i ant to caveat with the fact that skaters in the 70s and 80s actually could do this spin properly - its note worthy that its the skaters who weren't in the "need 7/8 triples and quad" era who could do them becuase they were the ones who were doing fancy delay/tuck/open axels which are the building blocks to this spin. Nowadays skaters don't even try these because they're desparate to get the next ful air spin rather than make the jump they have big solid open and beautiful.
Joesitz said:In Skate America, for example, I've Seen Idora Hegel and Jenna McCorkle in two World Championships. I'd like to see improvements this year. They are both talented enough to improve.
Joe
Joesitz said:The nonfans of Kimmie are already ganging up for the Underrotated 3A and this before she even attempts it.
Joe
Sad because a single axel can be and should be very artistic. I don't blame Carolina, it's not competitive.antmanb said:Replying to myself - the notable exception is Carolina Kostner who did that beautiful "wonder woman" axel in her exhibition at the Gran Lancia Gala in Torino.
But with CoP we certainly won't see her waste a jumping pass with a single axel will we?Ant
The rule seems to be ok for the landings but for the take offs, I've been reading it doesn't matter if one cheats a half a turn before going airborne This is mostly conerned with edge jumps which are very easy to cheat before take off.Doggygirl said:Actually, I think the ISU rules are pretty clear. The "cutoff" for a jump to be considered fully rotated is stated as being no more than 1/4 turn under rotated. That's the technical callers job to catch. The entrances, exits, air postions, difficult entrances, etc, I believe are pretty well defined under the GOE criteria, which is the judge's job to determine. While the judges and/or technical callers may be either making mistakes, or just over looking certain things (possibly flutzing) I do believe the criteria are pretty well laid out there for a subjective sport.
Just my thoughts - I'd be interested to see if others have also read the ISU rules and have different opinions.
DG - from Pittsburgh today.
Well, I think most comments were based on the 3A we saw her landed at last US nationals. She did attempted it right?Joesitz said:The nonfans of Kimmie are already ganging up for the Underrotated 3A and this before she even attempts it.
Joe
Joesitz said:Sad because a single axel can be and should be very artistic. I don't blame Carolina, it's not competitive.
Joe
Joesitz said:The rule seems to be ok for the landings but for the take offs, I've been reading it doesn't matter if one cheats a half a turn before going airborne This is mostly conerned with edge jumps which are very easy to cheat before take off.
Joe
The landing was questionable but are you the type to hold on to that forever as she attempts the 3A in future competitions? That was my point. If someone does not like a skater, they hold onto at least one nitpick whether or not it is justified.mzheng said:Well, I think most comments were based on the 3A we saw her landed at last US nationals. She did attempted it right?
True, I agree but figure skating is a Sport!! and a 3A is quite competitive for a young lady. Yet, I too, would like to see a more mature artistic side to figure skating. It just isn't there for children.antmanb said:God no - of course i don't blame her either - my comment was a bitter and twisted statement about CoP !
Ant
I used to do the same thing many yeas ago. I just think that one should be able to do a loop (r) or a salchow with no more than a quarter cheat edge. On the flip which is a salchow with a toe off, one could do it without a cheat. I think that principle could be taken for the regular salchow. The loop is always cheated even with a toe-off. Watch them.antmanb said:The trouble with take off's on edge jumps is the age old debate about how truly full revolution the jumps are ni the first place. The same petkevitch book i reference above clearly states that the salchow and loop are both half revolution jumps. From my experience of actually trying to do the jumps its impossible to do them with the balde taking off at the exact 360 mark from the landing.
For example the salchow - i only do a good one when there's a good third of the turn on the ice - its inevitable - if you actually bend your knee in order to jumpyou deepen and shorten the edge as you go. As you bend your knee and start to release the check in your arms and shoulders the blade deepens on that inhehrent curve and whne you straighten your leg out to jump the edge has come round to a good third to half turn round. Skater are taught to think of the salchow as a three jump (waltz jump in north america) that takes off from a backwards edge.Ant
Joesitz said:So many nonSarah fans continued to post that she overrotated yet the judges didn't seem to think so.
Joe
Yes Vash, it was a typo. So the judges in the 6.0 system didn't look for underrotated jumps? Did they look for two ft landings in Lillehammer?Vash01 said:I think you meant UNDERrotated (?) Sarah is not known to OVERrotate her jumps. If she was skating under COP those jumps would have been downgraded. Not so under the 6.0 system which was more forgiving.
Vash
Joesitz said:I used to do the same thing many yeas ago. I just think that one should be able to do a loop (r) or a salchow with no more than a quarter cheat edge. On the flip which is a salchow with a toe off, one could do it without a cheat. I think that principle could be taken for the regular salchow.
Joe