Duhamel/Radford new element: throw quad lutz

[MaxSwagg]

Exactly! I think that when (some) people say that D/R are lacking that 'intangible quality' that teams like V/T purportedly have, they are failing to admit to themselves that a) they don't like how D/R don't show a romantic connection and b) they don't like how Megan's body does not conform to antiquated ideals about women's bodies/beauty (i.e., She is perceived to be too muscular), which are still rampant in the world of figure skating.

No. Her muscular and dumpy body probably allows her to do all her tricks, and they get rewarded for that. Her line and extension aren't that good, and her lift positions are not that good either (as has been said many times). If that's because of her body, oh well. As has also been said, Aliona and Robin were not romantically involved yet they had that intangible connection. And what does his sexuality have to do with anything? Seems like a cheap dig at their "critics." Actually, I do like at least one thing about them so I am definitely not a "hater."

 

[Mista Ekko]

Meagan's lift positions are definitely good, They're just not special,
They get most of the +GOE on lifts due to the speed and coverage, And some cool entries and dismounts

 

[QuadThrow]

Meagan's lift positions are definitely good, They're just not special,
They get most of the +GOE on lifts due to the speed and coverage, And some cool entries and dismounts

That is true... although i have great respect for what they achieved,i have too say that their transistions are not as good as i should be. And i think they will not improve at that point.

 

[Alvyne]

Interview, from the Skate Canada camp

http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/5825867-duhamel-radford-add-new-quad-throw/

 

[kinoriH]

. If that's because of her body, oh well. As has also been said, Aliona and Robin were not romantically involved yet they had that intangible connection. And what does his sexuality have to do with anything? Seems like a cheap dig at their "critics." Actually, I do like at least one thing about them so I am definitely not a "hater."

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. It doesn't matter what Eric's sexual preference is. Look at Papadakis/Cizeron for example. Their connection on the ice is amazing and they're not a conventional ice dance couple either.
I believe the ability to connect with your partner is something that is not taught - two of them must have the IT factor,

 

[moriel]

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. It doesn't matter what Eric's sexual preference is. Look at Papadakis/Cizeron for example. Their connection on the ice is amazing and they're not a conventional ice dance couple either.
I believe the ability to connect with your partner is something that is not taught - two of them must have the IT factor,

Its because when one says connection, people seem to think connection = romanic connection, and then it goes.

 

[lyverbird1]

No. Her muscular and dumpy body probably allows her to do all her tricks, and they get rewarded for that. Her line and extension aren't that good, and her lift positions are not that good either (as has been said many times). If that's because of her body, oh well. As has also been said, Aliona and Robin were not romantically involved yet they had that intangible connection. And what does his sexuality have to do with anything? Seems like a cheap dig at their "critics." Actually, I do like at least one thing about them so I am definitely not a "hater."

Highlighted parts of above quote kind of go together....

 

[Blades of Passion]

Well, "dumpy" can mean "short and stout", but it's quite an outdated terminology. Nobody should be knocking her body because it's amazing. I don't think she needs to be more flexible, but I do think they should stay away from movements that generally need more flexibility to look great. For example, I'm not sure why they had her do any spirals in the LP last season: in total she was in spiral position 3 times, aside from the exiting position of an element (twice briefly on her own and then a bit longer in the "pairs spiral" moment). They could focus on having her do some steps/turns instead and make their skating a bit more ice-dancey instead of the more traditional "statuesque" pairs approach.

I'm actually really excited for the two quads, even if they are not as explosive as one might expect a quad to be. It's still a big achievement. If they are consistent with them this year, then the ISU will NEED to allow Quad Throws in the SP. Unfortunately that does further push my beloved throw 3Axel out the window as an element anyone will consider training, but it's not like people are doing it anyway, so oh well.

 

[lyverbird1]

Agreed Blades! The comment came across to me as mean spirited but maybe it was merely something said in the heat of a debate that seemed to someone entering the discussion late to be getting, erm, just a little over excited.

Both sides of the fence make good points and as a neutral I agree with certain points on both sides but bringing sexuality or insulting language into the fray seems unnecessary.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No. Her muscular and dumpy body probably allows her to do all her tricks, and they get rewarded for that. Her line and extension aren't that good, and her lift positions are not that good either (as has been said many times). If that's because of her body, oh well. As has also been said, Aliona and Robin were not romantically involved yet they had that intangible connection. And what does his sexuality have to do with anything? Seems like a cheap dig at their "critics." Actually, I do like at least one thing about them so I am definitely not a "hater."

You call yourself not a hater and talk about cheap digs, and yet you call her dumpy... which means short with a thick build (i.e. fat). At this point I can't imagine you would have anything nice to say about them even if they did everything you wanted. Her build isn't going to change -- and yeah, it IS her muscular body that lets her do the tricks.... it's called being a high-performance athlete.

Also, every time you've mentioned pairs with the best connection, your de facto "best ever" pairs always happen to be the ones romantically involved (V/T, P/T) and then you say "and maybe Aliona and Robin" just to throw them in there. I'd wager your criteria is that a "best" pair needs to be dating off-ice to have any chance of what you believe to be an acceptable level of connection on ice.

And, who are you kidding, Eric's sexuality has everything to do with it... Meagan and Eric aren't going to pretend to love each other beyond being friends because of his sexuality. You'll never see them do a Romeo and Juliet or a Love Story for that very reason. It's very apparent that their skating is about showing off the athleticism, dynamism, and intricacies of the sport and not trying to portray a couple in love.

In terms of improvement, I'd rather they improve by adding a quad lutz rather than "improve" by pretending to have feelings for each other because that would be ridiculous. Especially when they've shown the ability to win (essentially dominate) without all that romantic, dramatic, over-the-top "classic pair" bs.

 

[QuadThrow]

Aljona and Robin were romatically involved?

Aljona and Ingo have been a pair over the years!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Aljona and Robin were romatically involved?

Aljona and Ingo have been a pair over the years!

No, my point is that the "best pairs" MAXSwagg likes are all romantically involved, and then he adds in as a maybe Aliona/Robin (who aren't/weren't romantically involved, AFAIK). So it seems a bit unfair that he's asking for D/R to be at the level of P/T and V/T when that will never happen because obviously Meagan and Eric can't get romantically involved.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I couldn't care less about Eric's sexuality. Not one bit. I do however find Megan's air positioning to be very unappealing. She seems to spin from her shoulders or something and particularly her right shoulder. Here is a small example:

https://youtu.be/nTYj_7njb0A?t=7m

Her arms after the landing just haunt my brain like one of Squidward's dance recitals. She does it on throws too sometimes I've noticed so I'm hoping for the quad lutz to change that. Maybe he can chuck her so hard and fast that she'll spin so quick in the air that she won't need to force herself around with her shoulder.

Re: Conection

I don't know. I don't really get a sense that they are two people in unison as much as two people skating side by side. At least in comparison to the field I'd say they are a bit deficient. I'd just score their PCS lower than couples who seem to present themselves with a bit more unison and wouldn't give it a second thought and move on. It's nothing personal.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think we have to remember artistry or rather good artistry according to the rules is not set in stone that it has to be romantic or even artsy fartsy so to speak (my rap on classical, balletic etc). Otherwise brother and sister teams might as well go home. According to the rule you could score well or should have the potential with a ie. warrior theme, Asian theme, Flamenco, interpretation of a butterfly or whatever. D and R need to learn to maximize what they have and can do even artistically. it has been said for example michelle kwan's and Nancy Kerrigan's to die for spirals weren't always that hard or even the most flexible but they manipulated them well and used them well. And really how many "romantic" teams can you have???? After a while it gets stale and no one is really special. Because and it will go back to how far we research the Protopopovs, Gordeeva and grinkova, even M and D, B and S, Sale and Pelletier, Shen and Zhou, Pang and Tong, V and T You could throw in Valova and VAsiliev and the rest too well it is kind of generic after a while and they all can't be special or there is no such thing as special as it is the norm. I work at a job where it is often said this is a very unusual circumstance and I am thinking what would be unusual or special is if there wasn't anything unusual or special. lol. I looked at some of Michelle Kwans last competitive routines and really it was kind of mailed in or rather same old thing but just to different music and some of the magic was gone. Different styles really can be artistic. Granted we generally like and assume classical, romantic and balletic grace is "high brow" and good artistry but really the rules say or suggest it doesn't have to be that way. So yes country/western, not my thing lol, can be very artsy.

 

[Mathman]

Agreed Blades! The comment came across to me as mean spirited but maybe it was merely something said in the heat of a debate that seemed to someone entering the discussion late to be getting, erm, just a little over excited.

Yeah, sometimes posters go a bit "mean girl" on this team.

Blades of Passion's point about "outdated" is well taken. There has been an unmistakable and welcome re-evaluation of female athleticism across all sports in the current millennium. Go with what you got! Bottom line, D&R are the champs until someone comes along and proves otherwise. Everything else is just Internet talk. :yes:

 

[lyndichee]

No, my point is that the "best pairs" MAXSwagg likes are all romantically involved, and then he adds in as a maybe Aliona/Robin (who aren't/weren't romantically involved, AFAIK). So it seems a bit unfair that he's asking for D/R to be at the level of P/T and V/T when that will never happen because obviously Meagan and Eric can't get romantically involved.

Exactly, it's impossible for Meagan and Eric to manufacture the type of connection those couples have. I think the best D/R can do is just to maybe have more control over their facial expressions and work on her lines a bit more. People can criticize their lack of romantic connection, her body type (which can't be changed so that's just a cheap dig) etc. but I don't think as a team they will change it because it is not their strength and something they think will help them leading up to the next Olympics. Meagan said last year that the quad sal gave them a lot of motivation and I hope as a team they continue to work with the strengths they have rather than dwell on criticism.

 

[anyanka]

I think something that I have come to terms with as a fan of D/R is realizing that they are not good on the PCS side. I think a general consensus here is that D/R aren't as strong as other couples in the PCS department; the numbers are subjective but relative to each other I think the placement is in the right place. I will always love them and support them openly despite all my friends finding my twitter rather irrelevant to them LOL. I think D/R know that they'll never be able to manufacture the same strengths that V/T and other tops couples have and that's okay for them; Duhamel practically lives off the excitement of landing quads and you can tell it gives them inspiration and motivation to do their best when they are challenging themselves physically. That's something that I think is unmatched for D/R and they aren't looking to copy, but to find their own strengths.

Also for their SP this year, the song was very passionate and I didn't think the ending to that SP fit at all. It was more like "TADA WE ARE DONE"with a huge smile on Meagan's face rather than a representation of the distance between a couple. Also Meagan's smiling at random times didn't really help the connection with the music.

Here's a bit of constructive criticism. I love D/R but sometimes they end programs the way one does in Cirque du Soleil, as if it says "wasn't that awesome?!" Yes it was, but it does break the spell a bit and they can work on that in the future.

May I suggest perhaps some acting classes to tailor presentation according to the music? It would give a bit more feeling (doesn't have to be conventionally romantic) to the performance aspect.

Excited for them this season! The FS music choice is one I look very forward to seeing.

 

[4everchan]

I could agree with this… i think that Duhamel just gets really pumped up after a good skate… a bit like a marathon runner would do in the last 100 meters… waving to the crowd and so on… It does break the spell of the music and the performance… but then, it also brings the audience into their athletic performance… and I get forgiving for that.. as so many athletes are "ice queens" and don't let you in on the emotion they feel from the performance… However, it's an easy fix… (if someone from her team is reading!! LOL) I understand both states of mind as I am a former athlete who is now a musician… so I get the excitement from having a great skate or run… and I also understand the importance of staying composed when in an artistic performance… she should just stay still for 4-5 more seconds before breaking into jumps and fist pumps… but i find her very cute when she does that

Here's a bit of constructive criticism. I love D/R but sometimes they end programs the way one does in Cirque du Soleil, as if it says "wasn't that awesome?!" Yes it was, but it does break the spell a bit and they can work on that in the future.

May I suggest perhaps some acting classes to tailor presentation according to the music? It would give a bit more feeling (doesn't have to be conventionally romantic) to the performance aspect.

Excited for them this season! The FS music choice is one I look very forward to seeing.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I agree with that too. Skaters should be that skater right up until that final bow. But it's not out of the norm to see a skater do a fist pump or jump up and down a la Lipinski when they're done an amazing skate (V/T were very animated at the end of their program in Sochi). It's a huge emotional relief throwing down a clean or close to clean program - especially when it's a key title on the line. So while they could be more restrained about it, it's only natural. Although it's a stupid unfair criticism to go after Duhanel for her reaction when even the best skaters fist pump mid program. But now that they've won the big title they need to step up their finesse and maturity. After seeing some of their SP I'm really hopeful that they'll be silencing critics not just with harder elements and difficulty but also improved artistry.

 

[Amei]

I agree with that too. Skaters should be that skater right up until that final bow. But it's not out of the norm to see a skater do a fist pump or jump up and down a la Lipinski when they're done an amazing skate (V/T were very animated at the end of their program in Sochi). It's a huge emotional relief throwing down a clean or close to clean program - especially when it's a key title on the line. So while they could be more restrained about it, it's only natural. Although it's a stupid unfair criticism to go after Duhanel for her reaction when even the best skaters fist pump mid program. But now that they've won the big title they need to step up their finesse and maturity. After seeing some of their SP I'm really hopeful that they'll be silencing critics not just with harder elements and difficulty but also improved artistry.

As long as it's rarely done - V/T, Lipinski, those were reactions that they didn't have all the time and were after they knew they had won the medal they worked to achieve for their entire lives. Done to often and it looks more like you are show-boating. When I played sports throughout school we were always told to 'act like you've done it before'.