Duhamel/Radford new element: throw quad lutz

[Skater Boy]

As I have said before, and will probably get pummelled for this, we are a very unique, and small group of people, who are really into skating and have extreme opinions and biases. We, in general, are often prone myself included ) to really get off topic and desirous of getting our point across often in themes ie pro certain skaters. The actual topic here is the new element of Duhamel and Radford that being a throw quad lutz. I know a lot of teams and skaters claim they are working on improving things or adding new elements; I will probably get beaten up here and I am not trying to break any rules on this board, but the real issue is can they do it when it counts? We have D and R talking throw quad lutz and I do believe they like everyone knows they need a wholistic approach to skating with IJS so tech elements are important but so are pcs and each competitor works on this. We see many clips of skaters landing or doing certain tricks in practice but sadly as we have seen the percentage of them actually doing it in competition is much lower otherwise skaters that said they could do a quad and we assume consistently not when the moon is blue and there is world peace would be trying them in competition and not just talking about them in their arsenal. D and R have been impressive with their tricks. I think their triple lutzes (individual) really should put singles skaters to shame - they are very consistent in landing them and no edge issues unlike the top female individual skaters. Obviously certain things or appearances are more aesthetically pleasing or in keeping with "traditional" values as to what is artistic or attractive in skating but you have to work with what you have. Liz Manley, Midori Ito used their personality to overcome bodies that were not in the traditional balletic form, Surya bonaly and Debi Thomas showed a muscular body could show beauty and strength in its own way and Nancy Kerrigan's spiral really does not show great flexibility but she owned it. I think it is one thing to criticize from your perspective what someone chose ie music or costume but physical issues is well taboo. I mean if your nation believes in Human Rights and Charters or Constitutions one can argue that there is a duty to accommodate all body types (okay let's don't go down the road of but you can mark or judge based on appearance as to what is beautiful skating). This new element if landed could make things interesting with the other teams including V and T and push them all technically and artistically / pcs. ONe of my concerns though is injury - it might be just me but for years we were in triple toes, triple salchows (individual) and throw loops and flips ore even salchows were the measure now we have individual lutzes and throw quads and twists. Huge jump. Is this too fast of a development?

 

[veneresplende]

As I have said before, and will probably get pummelled for this, we are a very unique, and small group of people, who are really into skating and have extreme opinions and biases. We, in general, are often prone myself included ) to really get off topic and desirous of getting our point across often in themes ie pro certain skaters. The actual topic here is the new element of Duhamel and Radford that being a throw quad lutz. I know a lot of teams and skaters claim they are working on improving things or adding new elements; I will probably get beaten up here and I am not trying to break any rules on this board, but the real issue is can they do it when it counts? We have D and R talking throw quad lutz and I do believe they like everyone knows they need a wholistic approach to skating with IJS so tech elements are important but so are pcs and each competitor works on this. We see many clips of skaters landing or doing certain tricks in practice but sadly as we have seen the percentage of them actually doing it in competition is much lower otherwise skaters that said they could do a quad and we assume consistently not when the moon is blue and there is world peace would be trying them in competition and not just talking about them in their arsenal. D and R have been impressive with their tricks. I think their triple lutzes (individual) really should put singles skaters to shame - they are very consistent in landing them and no edge issues unlike the top female individual skaters. Obviously certain things or appearances are more aesthetically pleasing or in keeping with "traditional" values as to what is artistic or attractive in skating but you have to work with what you have. Liz Manley, Midori Ito used their personality to overcome bodies that were not in the traditional balletic form, Surya bonaly and Debi Thomas showed a muscular body could show beauty and strength in its own way and Nancy Kerrigan's spiral really does not show great flexibility but she owned it. I think it is one thing to criticize from your perspective what someone chose ie music or costume but physical issues is well taboo. I mean if your nation believes in Human Rights and Charters or Constitutions one can argue that there is a duty to accommodate all body types (okay let's don't go down the road of but you can mark or judge based on appearance as to what is beautiful skating). This new element if landed could make things interesting with the other teams including V and T and push them all technically and artistically / pcs. ONe of my concerns though is injury - it might be just me but for years we were in triple toes, triple salchows (individual) and throw loops and flips ore even salchows were the measure now we have individual lutzes and throw quads and twists. Huge jump. Is this too fast of a development?

Yeah... that's a point right there. I don't want to see an increase of injured young pairs just because throw quads and twists are more becoming almost necessary to win things now (unless you're V/T). That's probably why the point difference between a well-landed throw triple sal and an eeked out throw quad sal isn't as much as people think. But then again, tech in pairs has remained static for so long. But I think you're right that this shift may be too fast.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think Duhamel knows her body and is in shape enough to land quad throws. I'm more concerned with skaters like Yuko an Wenjing who aren't as built (though they're obviously still well trained and in shape) landing quad throws.

I know there is always the concern that a certain element will lead to certain problems but the skaters know themselves well enough to not take that risk. It's like saying a male skater shouldn't do quads or female skaters a triple axel, because that puts them at risk for injury. It's their choice and their risk (albeit a calculated one).

 

[s_parks]

I think Duhamel knows her body and is in shape enough to land quad throws. I'm more concerned with skaters like Yuko an Wenjing who aren't as built (though they're obviously still well trained and in shape) landing quad throws.

I know there is always the concern that a certain element will lead to certain problems but the skaters know themselves well enough to not take that risk. It's like saying a male skater shouldn't do quads or female skaters a triple axel, because that puts them at risk for injury. It's their choice and their risk (albeit a calculated one).

tbh I'm more worried about yuko than wenjing. Sui isn't built like duhamel(not sure any other pair lady is, though), but that doesn't mean she, or other pair ladies can't do quads without falling apart physically. Sui did get injured practicing quads, but that was more out of doing them too often too young. But yuko... of course, I likewise am not doubting her fitness, but she's even older than Duhamel and she's far more waif(for lack of a better word that I can think of) than wenjing- sui is tiny stature and frame-wise, but her and yuko's body type isn't really comparable, imo. But then again, K/S's quads are pretty small, so maybe there's less risk of injury?

 

[moriel]

tbh I'm more worried about yuko than wenjing. Sui isn't built like duhamel(not sure any other pair lady is, though), but that doesn't mean she, or other pair ladies can't do quads without falling apart physically. Sui did get injured practicing quads, but that was more out of doing them too often too young. But yuko... of course, I likewise am not doubting her fitness, but she's even older than Duhamel and she's far more waif(for lack of a better word that I can think of) than wenjing- sui is tiny stature and frame-wise, but her and yuko's body type isn't really comparable, imo. But then again, K/S's quads are pretty small, so maybe there's less risk of injury?

Imho its not 100% about build - as people can be equally fit while having different body types. Duhamel is less balletic, short and muscular, dunno. That doesnt mean she is stronger or more fit than Sui, for example. Now Yuko is a worry for sure - i'd actually love to see K/S to stop going after the "tricks" and work on some extra goe, pcs and clean performances instead to avoid injuries.
I feel that there are like maybe 2 techniques or something like that. Small ones that work well for quads because less risc of injury, and HUUUGE ones - then its pretty much always a triple only, because else the lady flies half of the rink and can get hurt badly if anything goes wrong (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2dUqG7xTLE check their olympic performance for the fall =S)

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Here is a new TSL video about Meagan and Eric's new programs. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIQQwVhAk8

As you will see in the video, they are indeed committed to working on the PCS side of their skating, not just the 'tricks', as some people like to call them.

Wow, what I see of their program looks really good and I can't wait to see them in competition with the quad Lutz.