Jenny on Favoritism- Joubert Fans will love this

[Ginask8s]

Brian CLOSED the show and he did it like a pro. I remember Scotty saying at the Olympics when Sasha was doing her short ,how she was really engaging the audience and that the judges are a part of the audience. The crowd was going nuts .Positive energy travels. . .

 

[shallwedansu]

Judges are human too after all, and perhaps they were also influenced by the extra-loud cheering Joubert received.

So when the fangirls shrieked during his running man, that gave him higher marks in skating skills? Or what about those thrusts? Did the women in the audience fanning themselves get him high marks in interpretation?

 

[shine]

I get your point, and even though I'm not exactly Joubert's biggest fan, don't you think projecting like Joubert did to the audience and a charismatic performance like that should be rewarded? At the very least, definitely his performance scores.

Judges are human too after all, and perhaps they were also influenced by the extra-loud (and well-deserved) cheering Joubert received.

Yeah, except that kind of skating is more suitable for and appreciated in shows than in competitions, where actual technical and presentation skills should outweigh the hokey ability to get young women in the audience worked up.

 

[SusieH]

Well, I thought the point of having an educated panel of judges is to eliminate opinions like this from factoring into the actual scores and results. But I guess I was wrong. The judges obviously judge just like another fangirl.

But Joubert also had more power, speed, and glamour in his performance, which, I think, translated into some PCS points for him. I mean, besides making fangirls swooning all over him, he can actually skate, don't you think?

Anyway, just as I have mentioned, Jourbert was only one or two points ahead of others in PCS (Takahashi's PCS did look questionable BTW). It's not like he has a ten-point lead. I don't really know what the fuss is about.

 

[evangeline]

So when the fangirls shrieked during his running man, that gave him higher marks in skating skills? Or what about those thrusts? Did the women in the audience fanning themselves get him high marks in interpretation?

No, but as Ginask8s pointed out, Joubert was really engaging and rousing the audience, and the judges are part of that audience--and although Joubert doesn't have the most sophisticated choreography in the field, I felt that he was interpreting the music quite well and his performance really drew me in and I don't even like Joubert very much at all.


And IMO, Joubert deserves decent skating skills marks.

 

[prettykeys]

I could be a giddy little "fangirl", but I'm not a Joubert fangirl. I don't really swoon for the pretty boys.

However, I'm still not convinced that he was unfairly overmarked. He did his thing with the music he chose.

 

[bekalc]

Yeah, except that kind of skating is more suitable for and appreciated in shows than in competitions, where actual technical and presentation skills should outweigh than the ability to get young women in the audience worked up.

It didn't look to me like it was JUST the women worked up over Joubert's performance. The whole crowd stood up, and I bet there were men too. Joubert skates very BIG and with a lot of power and speed.

And to be frank, why exactly does Johnny deserve higher PCS than Joubert. OKay I may give you Abbott but why Johnny? I mean to be frank Johnny and Joubert have completely different styles. Johnny at his best can be very graceful, but I'd hardly say this program is Johnny at his most magical. But just as graceful skaters are wonderful, its also very good to have showman like skaters like Joubert too. If everyone skated the same the sport would be boring.

Objectively, though Johnny's program is also very empty choregraphy wise, and hardly come with more transitions than Brian's. Plus, he looks noticably slower. So why exactly does Johnny deserve more PCS than Brian?

 

[shine]

But Joubert also had more power, speed, and glamour in his performance, which, I think, translated into some PCS points for him. I mean, besides making fangirls swooning all over him, he can actually skate, don't you think?

Anyway, just as I have mentioned, Jourbert was only one or two points ahead of others in PCS (Takahashi's PCS did look questionable BTW). It's not like he has a ten-point lead. I don't really know what the fuss is about.

The fuss is about how the judges are just blatantly clueless about how to judge PCS. Sure, I guess we should be thanking God that Joubert didn't score 10 points higher, because going by the judging so far this season, that could've happened if they really wanted to. But there are also many here that feel Joubert not only shouldn't score 10 points higher, he should also be well below Abbott in at least 4 out of 5 PCS categories. If the judges really love his quad that much, ISU should have long ago made the damn jump worth a hella more, instead of having the judges padding in the PCS for otherwise no good reason just so they can place the skater where they want to place and down right confuse the crap out of viewers (viewers, who actually cares, that is). Rant off.

 

[shine]

It didn't look to me like it was JUST the women worked up over Joubert's performance. The whole crowd stood up, and I bet there were men too. Joubert skates very BIG and with a lot of power and speed.

Sure, but so does Abbott. In addition to having way better knee bend and edge quality/control, and being way more refined in everything he does. And let's not even get into the more subjective areas such as musicality, coherent choreography, and interpretation.

And to be frank, why exactly does Johnny deserve higher PCS than Joubert. OKay I may give you Abbott but why Johnny? I mean to be frank Johnny and Joubert have completely different styles. Johnny at his best can be very graceful, but I'd hardly say this program is Johnny at his most magical. But just as graceful skaters are wonderful, its also very good to have showman like skaters like Joubert too. If everyone skated the same the sport would be boring.

Objectively, though Johnny's program is also very empty choregraphy wise, and hardly come with more transitions than Brian's. Plus, he looks noticably slower. So why exactly does Johnny deserve more PCS than Brian?

That I agree with you. I never got the fuss over Johnny being an arteest. His programs have always been one dimensional and empty to me, most obviously the LPs. He has some better qualities than Joubert (stretch, lines, spins) and other inferiorities (speed, projection) so between the two I don't think one is really a better skater than the other. But was Joubert really 7 points better than Johnny, even with the quad?

 

[bekalc]

Sure, but so does Abbott. In addition to having way better knee bend and edge quality, and being way more refined in everything he does.

I don't know if Abbott has the speed power Joubert does. Although when your doing more choregraphy wise, your not going to have the same amounts of speed. I mean to be frank, the audience apparently reacted really well to Johnny, Dai, and Joubert. But not so much to Abbott apparently. That does suggest to me at least when it comes to projecting to the audience-Abbott needs a little work.

 

[shine]

I have a feeling it is because of a combination of Abbott's music being not as audience friendly and him being more introverted compared to the other 3). It does takes more of an educated viewer to appreciate his skating. Not all the people who attend live competitions are hardcore skating fans (e.g. the ones we see in online forums etc), and they tend do to appreciate more easy-to-listen music and more "obvious" choreography. That's why we have judges judge the competitions and not just have a vote-for-your-favourite-performance contest, no? I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

 

[bekalc]

I have a feeling it is because of a combination of Abbott's music being not as audience friendly and him being more introverted compared to the other 3). It does takes more of an educated viewer to appreciate his skating. Not all the people who attend live competitions are hardcore skating fans (e.g. the ones we see in online forums etc), and they tend do to appreciate more easy-to-listen music and more "obvious" choreography. That's why we have judges judge the competitions and not just have a vote-for-your-favourite-performance contest, no? I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

Very true. But I'm trying to point out that Abbot does look slower to me than some of the others, and THAT does matter in terms of PCS. When I look at results though,I try to ask myself is things fair? And I actually think Joubert having a 2 point lead IS fair. Now I'd give Joubert the lead on the basis of base value but the system unfortunately doesn't IMO properly reward things like doing an extremely difficult combination in the sport.

 

[evangeline]

I have a feeling it is because of a combination of Abbott's music being not as audience friendly and him being more introverted compared to the other 3). It does takes more of an educated viewer to appreciate his skating. Not all the people who attend live competitions are hardcore skating fans (e.g. the ones we see in online forums etc), and they tend do to appreciate more easy-to-listen music and more "obvious" choreography. That's why we have judges judge the competitions and not just have a vote-for-your-favourite-performance contest, no? I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

True, but shouldn't the sport be open to different styles? Not everyone could (or should, in my opinion) skate to the more nuanced music the way Abbott can. Joubert's choreography may not be nearly be as sophisticated as Abbott's, but he did quite well with the style of music he chose. I personally would be quite bored if everyone skated to the same kind of introverted music with introverted choreography; variety is good and should be encouraged.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jenny is the female version of me, I think. Loving these articles.

The presentation mark is subjective. It always has been. Still, it’s incredibly difficult to grasp how the panel could find Joubert’s skating skills better than Abbott’s. Joubert’s program was exciting and a fan-favorite, but that doesn’t equate to having the best choreography or interpretation of the music; instead, it just means Joubert knows how to entice an audience of young women.

I have a feeling it is because of a combination of Abbott's music being not as audience friendly. It does takes more of an educated viewer to appreciate his skating.

I guess it's too much to ask for a sport to have educated judges.

 

[Mathman]

Now that I have seen the performances, I liked Joubert's the best. (What can I say? )

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

True, but shouldn't the sport be open to different styles? Not everyone could (or should, in my opinion) skate to the more nuanced music the way Abbott can. Joubert's choreography may not be nearly be as sophisticated as Abbott's, but he did quite well with the style of music he chose. I personally would be quite bored if everyone skated to the same kind of introverted music with introverted choreography; variety is good and should be encouraged.

What's the point in the choreography mark then? Now, given how close it was, I don't think it's worth kvetching about... yet, but if Abbott's choreography is more sophisticated (ie, intricate and attuned to the music), than shouldn't that be privileged over Joubert's extroverted bombast?

 

[Mathman]

^ "More sophisticated" is not necessarily better, IMHO.

 

[prettykeys]

Now that I have seen the performances, I liked Joubert's the best. (What can I say? )

Hah, another point for Joubert. I liked Abbott's the best, but the differences in the marks and the performances aren't enough for me to cry "favouritism".

On the other hand, if Abbott had been given the higher PCS, I wouldn't have objected, either.

What's the point in the choreography mark then? Now, given how close it was, I don't think it's worth kvetching about... yet, but if Abbott's choreography is more sophisticated (ie, intricate and attuned to the music), than shouldn't that be privileged over Joubert's extroverted bombast?

A better question is: How would you have better-interpreted and choreographed a skating program to Joubert's music?

Please enlighten us!

 

[prettykeys]

BTW, Mathman, you are now officially a Joubert fangirl who has been "enticed" on the basis of your youth and femaleness!!!

 

[chadvader]

So, I just watched Abbott - Joubert - Yagudin (Winter program) back to back. I read Jenny's article earlier today. I definitely agree that Abbott is slower, but that's his only problem. Joubert completely lacks choreography and his spin quality (especially the combo) detracts from the overall program. Joubert modelled himself after Yagudin back in 2002 and it's interesting to see the similarities. If you watch Yag's SP from 2002, it's very similiar to Joubert's - but he got a 6.0 for presentation. I'm not super well-versed in COP, though. Is there something I'm missing here?