Ladies figure skating is now women’s figure skating

[dante]

Does Ted Barton sound old-fashioned, when he says "Three young ladies brought light to us all"?

He probably does. But that's what I love in his commentating.

The opposite is also a danger, though. When I was a boy we thought nothing about calling Mexicans "wetbacks" and American Indians "redskins," etc.

It's not that anyone suggested the terms b****es' and d***heads' figure skating.

 

[surimi]

You didn't live through it. We did. That's why seeing the increasing number of similarities in controlling mind trough language looks so frightening to us and do not understand why so many people on the west is celebrating that the Titanic is sinking while they are still on board.

I agree with you on a number of things, but this one feels okay to me. Wouldn't it feel weird to you to hear 'Ladies and men, next stop XYZ' on a local train? To me it would. I think this one is just a question of habitual usage, but the combination certainly looks odd.

 

[flanker]

I agree with you on a number of things, but this one feels okay to me. Wouldn't it feel weird to you to hear 'Ladies and men, next stop XYZ' on a local train? To me it would. I think this one is just a question of habitual usage, but the combination certainly looks odd.

It happens that people disagree with each other from time to time. To me the weird thing is the endless searching for connections with gender equality or fair and balanced portrayal of men and women, to use the language of the proposal, while knowing that things change so "progressively" on this matter that what seems fine one day can be easily proclaimed wrong the other one. I do not think it is possible to oblige and satisfy the tendencies for looking for problems in all aspects of life whether they are real or not. It is like Logi, the embodiment of fire in Norse mythology - the more he was feeded, the bigger hunger he had.

But I'm really saying more than I want already.

 

[Minz]

It's not that anyone suggested the terms b****es' and d***heads' figure skating.

I think what @Mathman is saying, is that as the times change, certain things become acceptable/unacceptable. So regarding the terms that were used commonly when he was a boy, people have now realized that said terms are racist/derogatory/rude, and therefore aren’t used.

 

[lappo]

It would also be nice to see the SP jump content and the PCS factoring parified for women and men, both for juniors and seniors.
I also wonder if the lack of music variety in women is the result, conscious or unconscious, of the expectations that women have to skate to ballads or ballets or nice music in general in order to meet the judges' tastes; if this is the reason, I really would love to see women experiment more with music genres as we are used to see in men (think of Sasha Trusova skating to something like Voodoo child, how cool would it be? Also, Ivett Toth ACDC program is the proof that the public is more than ready for new concepts in women skating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYzYr6zpPG4&ab_channel=Olympics).

 

[snowflake]

I'm super glad they changed it. Ladies and gentleman is so outdated, it should be only used for fun, or in weird scenarios like horse racing, where women spectators wear lampshades or antlers on their heads.
It's sport, it's men and women (or boys and girls for the more casual type like me).
Now you may say 'that's funny coming from LadyB'. I've got that nickname because I'm anything but
Besides, who in their right mind wants to be addressed as a Lady, especially as a teenager! How booooooooring!
For once, good on ya, ISU!

Haha fun post, here's the ultimate Lady... and gentleman

 

[el henry]

It happens that people disagree with each other from time to time. To me the weird thing is the endless searching for connections with gender equality or fair and balanced portrayal of men and women, to use the language of the proposal, while knowing that things change so "progressively" on this matter that what seems fine one day can be easily proclaimed wrong the other one. I do not think it is possible to oblige and satisfy the tendencies for looking for problems in all aspects of life whether they are real or not. It is like Logi, the embodiment of fire in Norse mythology - the more he was feeded, the bigger hunger he had.

But I'm really saying more than I want already.

The only posters (ETA: and I shouldn’t say posters, more so people in general) I see making these connections and looking for all sorts of problems in life are those getting their knickers in a twist over a simple language change.

no one is looking for anything except to make the language make sense. As someone who spends all day with words, the language makes more sense now

it is a change in language to make it make sense in English. I am a native English speaker and Ladies and Men is jarring to the ears and makes no sense.

That’s all

ETA: Did I say “make sense“ 85 times? Yes I did because that is what this change does.

 

[Mathman]

Maybe instead of Ladies and Gentlemen it should be "Lords and Ladies." Nathan Chen -- Figure skating Lord and master of all he surveys,

Or Bro's and Ho's.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Maybe this change just sounds so wrong to my ears because in my native German it would be borderline impolite to talk about Fraueneiskunstlauf (women's figure skating) and Männereiskunstlauf (men's figure skating). Indeed, our senior disciplines are called Elite Damen (elite ladies) and Elite Herren (elite gentlemen). And that is not just limited to figure skating, but basically applied in all sports. The only sport I can think of of the top of my head where we would maybe say Frauen/Männer (women/men) would be football (soccer for our US friends), and even there Damenfußball (ladies' football) and Herrenfußball (gentlemen's football) sounds more natural, imo (and I am in my early thirties, so not super old).
PS: Yes, I am aware that we German speakers just tend to put a string of words together to make one new word, but that's just how it works.

 

[el henry]

Maybe this change just sounds so wrong to my ears because in my native German it would be borderline impolite to talk about Fraueneiskunstlauf (women's figure skating) and Männereiskunstlauf (men's figure skating). Indeed, our senior disciplines are called Elite Damen (elite ladies) and Elite Herren (elite gentlemen). And that is not just limited to figure skating, but basically applied in all sports. The only sport I can think of of the top of my head where we would maybe say Frauen/Männer (women/men) would be football (soccer for our US friends), and even there Damenfußball (ladies' football) and Herrenfußball (gentlemen's football) sounds more natural, imo (and I am in my early thirties, so not super old).
PS: Yes, I am aware that we German speakers just tend to put a string of words together to make one new word, but that's just how it works.

I enjoy hearing how other languages talk about figure skating, thanks,

So does that mean that skiing for example, is ladies and gentlemen skiing? Cool

I don’t think any Anglophone who is applauding the change would have minded if the wording was changed to Ladies and Gentlemen. That would not be jarring. But Ladies and Men, or Women and Gentlemen, is jarring.

and I prefer not being jarred

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

So does that mean that skiing for example, is ladies and gentlemen skiing? Cool

Yes, exactly. Also ladies and gentlemen hockey or ladies and gentlemen boxing.

 

[Mathman]

I assume that the German skating establishment and German skating fans will go on using the terms that they prefer. even if changes come about in English usage.

There is also the option of a unisex term, "gentles." As in the favorite salutation of Miss Manners: "Gentle Reader." Then they could be "gentle women and gentle men."

 

[Minz]

BTW, for those who were talking about what it was called at Wimbledon. I just saw something on my TV saying “Gentlemen’s Semifinals”. But I saw something else that said “Men’s” and another thing that said “Women’s”.

 

[Mathman]

Bottom line, I do approve of this change. "Gentle" as in "gentlemen" and it's equivalent "ladies" means of high birth and refined manners, as contrasted with -- ugh -- "commoners." This is why public speakers address their audiences, "Ladies and Gentlemen!" -- as a polite if insincere compliment. No one, after all, wants to be common.

I think that society has moved on from this sort of thing, and that our language should follow.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Women is 1 letter shorter than Ladies, they did this purely to save on printing costs.

 

[LadyB]

Haha fun post, here's the ultimate Lady... and gentleman

Yeah, that's about it.

 

[Bindy]

As it should be! It is weird to have men's skating and ladies' skating. It either needs to be ladies and gentlemen or men and women. The mixed terms just seem sexist.

Exactly! The term “Ladies” is a Victorian holdover that holds more meaning than just the sex of the person. It also bothers me when police arrest a male suspect & refer to him as a “gentleman”! Maybe those who played Wimbledon 100 yrs ago were ladies & gentlemen but there is plenty of behaviour that does not fit the implied meaning of those forms. I’m sure that there will be more pressure to come for those who don’t ascribe to living as “men or women”. I’m all for recognizing cultural change and using language that fits. Right now this is a step in the right direction.

 

[el henry]

Exactly! The term “Ladies” is a Victorian holdover that holds more meaning than just the sex of the person. It also bothers me when police arrest a male suspect & refer to him as a “gentleman”! Maybe those who played Wimbledon 100 yrs ago were ladies & gentlemen but there is plenty of behaviour that does not fit the implied meaning of those forms. I’m sure that there will be more pressure to come for those who don’t ascribe to living as “men or women”. I’m all for recognizing cultural change and using language that fits. Right now this is a step in the right direction.

I would disagree in that if the ISU (or IOC) wanted to use *both* ladies and gentlemen, then I would not have a problem with that, Yes, it's anachronistic, but equally anachronistic. That's fine with me.

When spousal unit attended Oxford starting in 1970, it was "gentlemen" this and "gentlemen" that and gentlemen in all things. They were not all gentlemen But no one took it seriously. And I doubt they still use that language. (Not the least because his college was all male then and is no longer).

From what I understand, the "pressure" in this case was from the IOC to equalize the terms. Nothing cultural, nothing political, no hidden meanings.

Just good English.

 

[Mathman]

Even "ladies and gentlemen" is not even handed. Nowadays refering to males, however riough-and-tumble, as "gentlemen --"Gentlemen, please, stop bashing each other over the head!"-- is tongue in cheek.

"Ladies," though, does still carry a whiff of the old-time notion of a delcate flower that must be protected by virile men.

 

[ManyCairns]

Even "ladies and gentlemen" is not even handed. Nowadays refering to males, however riough-and-tumble, as "gentlemen --"Gentlemen, please, stop bashing each other over the head!"-- is tongue in cheek.

"Ladies," though, does still carry a whiff of the old-time notion of a delcate flower that must be protected by virile men.

And who must behave properly, and be demure, and never challenge authority, etc.