Mathman, I have a question. . .

[Mathman3]

Re: LOL

:lol: Publish or perish, El T., publish or perish.

But I did mention Michelle in an expository article about the mathematical/scientific method, discussing the famous quote of Paul Dirak, one of the founders of quantum theory:

"It is more important to have beauty in one's equations than to have them fit experiment."

Science writer Kitty Ferguson analyzes this quote by saying:

"Dirak's words are not a compete abandonment of objectivity. What physicists mean by beauty is not exactly what the rest of the world means by beauty, though it's close. Most of us have experienced beauty in the sense of everything working out in a soul-satisfying, harmonious manner.

<em>"That's certainly part of what moves us in art, music, poetry, nature, and even in a beautiful face or body, the coming together of of many disparate elements in a way that seems <strong>inevitable, effortless, intensely pleasing, beyond our expectations."</strong></em>

Forget quantum theory, that's Michelle at Worlds: inevitabl...effortless...intensely pleasing...beyond our expectations.

Mathman

 

[Linny]

Same question different skater

What is it about Sasha Cohen that sparks such intense emotion? People seem to adore or her despise her. Sat behind a 50ish man at Worlds who couldn't talk about her enough. He was head over heels in love. Didn't mention that it seemed a tad strange to me...
Linny

 

[eltamina]

Re: Same question different skater

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sat behind a 50ish man at Worlds who couldn't talk about her enough. He was head over heels in love. Didn't mention that it seemed a tad strange to me...[/quote]

When I was at SA01, I saw Nicks yelling and screaming at a 50ish guy. "Stay away from her, I am calling the security". Maybe it is the same guy, at least I hope it is just the same guy.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats Michelle, Elena, and fumie</span>

 

[eltamina]

contrast/ flow and time/space suspense

The best artists/ skaters/ musicians/ composers give me masterpieces with the following elements

1. contrast - to keep me interested
2. flow - to take me into a soulful journey
3. give me a brief period of time in the performance where I feel time and space ceased to exist.

I said before the very well known Beethoven p cto #5 demonstrated all of the above. In the first movement there were jaw dropping contrasts (with flow). Then between first and second movement just for a few bars, but it seems like it last for eternity that time and space stood still, then onto the second movement with musical ideas that flowed like the river.

IMO, Michelle's TRV gave me a combination of 1,2 and 3. Her other programs provide me other combinations of 1,2 and 3.

Fumie and Yuka have great flow.

<span style="color:red;font-size:large;">Congrats Michelle, annd undefeated season</span>

 

[Pookie]

Re: contrast/ flow and time/space suspense

Mathman,

When Michelle performs her beautiful, perfect skates, there is most definitely a sense of elation for her and for having been fortunate enough to watch it.

I think it was Peggy Fleming that said, as Torvill and Dean performed Bolero at the Olympics, I just feel lucky to be here and get to see this. Same thing with Michelle.

Besides, I'm not going to argue with a moderator. :lol:

 

[IWannabeASkater]

Re: contrast/ flow and time/space suspense

I think Sasha tend to be somewhat "in your face" - not necessarily in a good or a bad way - but she makes her presence known. That combined with how the commentators like to talk about her kind of makes people have to form an opinion on her one way or the other. Some of the other skaters you can just ignore a little bit if they don't really affect you in either way.

~ Jen

 

[rgirl181]

Re: Mathman, I have a question. . .

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...inevitable, effortless, intensely pleasing, beyond our expectations.[/quote] I'd say that sums up Michelle's performances at Worlds for me very well. Wish I'd thought of it. The only thing I'd add is, "Impeccable fingers, too."
Rgirl

 

[rgirl181]

Re: Same question different skater

Linny,
JMO, but I think it has to do with primarily two things: I think many of the people who love her love what they see as the beauty and uniqueness of Sasha's positions and the way she moves on the ice, plus her physical looks--petite, pretty, etc. I realize not everyone thinks her skating and looks are beautiful, but for those that do, I think that's probably the main reason they love her. People who love her probably also either see something in her personality they like or they project something onto her. I think this happens with a lot of celebrities.

Those who hate her, IMO, tend to hate her personality. She's frank (though not as much this season), aggressive, has been accused of trying to "run down" other skaters, and to some people apparently seems like a spoiled princess or at least shallow and superficial.

I'd say that for those who truly hate Sasha, it's probably more complicated than that, but that's what I think it comes down to, basically. Again, I think the same thing happens with a lot of celebrities and the pendulum often swings both ways. For years Kevin Costner could do no wrong, then for years he couldn't do anything right. OTOH, others such a Meryl Streep have basically always been either beloved or at least well-liked. Most of it is mysterious. You can list all the qualities you like in a person and can meet a person who has them and not like that person at all. Ask any dating service:lol:

As for the man you sat by who couldn't stop talking about Sasha, over the years at SOI I've sat by people who have been totally ga-ga in love with Kristi, Kurt, Scott, Katia, whomever. One year, Kurt went to shake hands with a woman who had an on-ice seat. The woman was pretty large and Kurt was thinner then. She didn't just shake hands, she hugged Kurt. And she didn't just hug Kurt, she picked him up. And she didn't just pick him up, she wouldn't let him go. Kurt finally got his toe picks into the ice and started moving himself back. The woman held on and went right onto the ice with him. I'd say she got about four or five feet onto the ice before she finally let go. Strange behavior, though also funny.
Rgirl

 

[mathman444]

Re: Same question different skater

It seems absurd to me that anyone would dislike any figure skater.

MM

 

[mathman444]

Dragons

Wait, wait! I thought of something else. One last "one last thing" :lol:

Why do we feel so passionately involved with our favorite figure skaters? No one, after all, goes ballistic if a sportswriter says something unflattering about Shaquille O'neal or Steve Yzerman. (OK, maybe Stevie.)

But the pretty girls of figure skating, that's another story altogether. When someone says negative and hurtful things about my lady, well, it's only natural that a sense of chivalry kicks in. Rationality be damned, we want to don our armor, seize the lance, and rush pell-mell into the fray. She is my Princess, I am her Champion!

Yeah. Like that. Hey, 'Chelle -- got any dragons you want slain today?

Mathman

 

[eltamina]

MM, Mushu has a message for you

community.webshots.com/ph...149/638413

said, “Oh yeah MM slay dragons??? You need to learn how to slay

www.puffins.com/rutroll08.html

first”

Mushu the dragon singing to the 4th mvt of Grieg’s Lyric Suite #54.

www.towerrecords.com/prod...id=2591204

(track #2)


<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats Michelle an undefeated season</span>

 

[mathman444]

Re: MM, Mushu has a message for you

With subtlety, Mushu. Think rapier, not broadsword.

 

[Shallah.K]

I have been a MK fan since 1994

I first admired her spunk and her attitude that yes she wants to win but the focus is about skating the best she can at that moment. I thought that a wonderful perspective and goal for an athlete that would help her keep mentally healthy. I admired her sportsmanship and attitude at 1995 Worlds where she said you can be first in your own heart but not in the judges eyes. It was when she skated her Salome program that I first liked her skating the best. The way she jumped and spun and moved with the music blew me away and I was a total fan. Her skating moves me emotionally. Her sportsmanship and grace off the ice I find admirable as well. I have given up years ago expecting perfect human beings who make no mistakes so I focus on finding folks who appear to embody as many good qualities consistantly as a human being possibly can. I am sure MK has her flaws. I know her skating does but from what I see she also has many wonderful qualites. The more skating I watch the move I love it. I also can find myself thrilled by skaters programs even when I am mentally noting various flaws. Take Shen & Zhao at Worlds - I was crying by the time they finished and cheering in my living room yet I noticed their spins still are sloppy and I would love to see them improve them. This doesn't mean I can't admire them for what they do correctly and/or better than other teams. This doesn't mean they didn't deserve to win.

I would like to also mention another catagory of nonfans/nonhaters - those who admire Michelle's sportsmanship and work ethic but don't get into her skating. i know of some folks who accept Michelle as a rolemodel for her behavior while being neutral to her skating itself.

I know I am rambling, thinking out loud so I hope I am making sense.

Once on another skating board people were discussing emotionally investing in skaters. We get attacked to a skater or team and want them to win all the time. We cheer when they win and/or skate well and feel sad when they do not. The longer they are around the more chance we have to get attached. When we have someone like Michelle who has been coming into our living rooms through that magical glowing box for a decade now we feel that we know her even when intellectually we know this is a false feeling. I was watching skating with my mother the time Dick Button said something to the effect of 'wouldn't anyone be proud for her to be your daughter' and my Mother agreed and said she wouldn't mind having MK as another daughter.

As for Peggy's comment I know my mind was not on world events throughout any of the skating and I am the better for that mini mental vacation as my sis is in the military and shortly will be shipped over to iraq. I have found that my hobby of watching FS can been refreshing mentally. It is a relief to get ticked off over things that are not life and death such as anonymous judging and $peedy's latest shenanigans. It is a relief to sit back and enjoy a sport that is a beautiful and artistic as it is athleticly awesome. It is interesting to observe myself feeling emotionally involved in skating results when I am just in my living room. I guess this is how fans of other sports feel. And considering how certain groups of ball sports react to their sports equavelent to the world championships - rioting in the streets, setting fires to whatevery is near by, over turning cars, bashing windows - skating is very mild in comparison IMO.

 

[ladybug]

Re: I have been a MK fan since 1994

When I watch ice skating, I forget all my problems and I get so totally involved in what the skaters are doing. I also feel sad when it is over and wish it would go on and on. Like everyone, I have my favorites but I couldn't hate or dislike any skater. Even the kid who ends up in last place has worked so hard to get to that point, you just have to respect them and I thank them all for giving me so much pleasure.

When the Nancy/Tonya thing happened, everyone took a side. Mostly, it was Nancy's side. After the Olympics, she came out with a few stupid comments which did not endear her to the hearts of fans.

Lurking in the background was this little cutie, Michelle. She could really jump and seemed to be so determined to excel in her sport. You just wanted to give her a hug. She had that big sweet smile. Just the thing most of us U.S.A. fans needed after the Nancy/Tonya scandal.

We watched her grow up. We watched her improvements. We were proud of the way she handled herself. I felt almost parental toward her. Now she is a young woman and I admire all her accomplishments and her determination. She makes me smile and she can make me cry. When she skates I don't see anything else. She makes me feel good. I can't imagine the void I would feel if she stopped skating. She makes my husband feel the same way so we are a real pair when it comes to Michelle.

 

[mathman444]

Re: I have been a MK fan since 1994

And do you know what else makes me feel good, Ladybug? Reading posts like that.

MM

 

[freshandclean]

Re: I have been a MK fan since 1994

Well, I agree with those that say that if you really like someone, you can't but feel a bit offended when they are dissed, and vice versa.

Now, my story is that when I was younger I thought figure skating was lame and boring. I'm the same age as Michelle and am male (just for background 411). But, I think the first time I seriously sat and watched Figure Skating was the 98 nationals. I've heard of Michelle Kwan before, but since she was a figure skater I didn't really know too much about her. I probably even got confused between her and Kristi Yamaguchi. But I kept hearing about how great this girl is and how she is THE figure skater. So I watched it and saw her perform. I was blown away. I can't even explain it. She really does reach individuals. Then watching other various competitions afterwards (maybe I had a slight crush on her), I would always tense up whenever she did jumps (whereas before if a skater fell, I'd laugh). I found myself not wanting her to fall.

So within that one season I already became a hardcore fan. Then the OLYs really brought me down, but then she picked herself up again and to this day, is a champion in my eyes.

What I value about Michelle over other "upstarts" and "potentials" is that Michelle delivers. She has the goods. She is what figure skating is. She is the essence of figure skating. Even with hype, she lives up to it. It's not just PR bulls*it. She not only had the potential but she was living up to it, even at a young age.

 

[Joesitz]

Re: I have been a MK fan since 1994

Sasha and Michelle are USA's top ladies' figure skaters. I would say it follows that fans of either will have a love/hate relationship with the other. There is nothing patriotic in liking one over the other. It is pure individual taste.

Since I very much enjoy both skaters and hope one will win if the other does not (pure patriotic), I do recognize good skating and am closely watching E.Sokolova and about a half dozen Japanese Ladies. I would gladly allow the 'other' skaters be the best THAT night.

The personalities of Sasha and Michelle are quite different. This may be a factor in choosing a favorite (but not for me).

Joe